Independent New Vegas base mod-Viva NV

[MarchUntoTorment]

So, first step is to clear out dialogue that is directly related to the coming battle in order to maintain immersion. That, I believe, should be the priority of the next release. I compiled a short list in the Independent NV thread of characters with pre-dam dialogue.

 

If anyone wants to help with this mod, going through their dialogue would be the best possible start - it's not particularly difficult work and doesn't require much GECK knowledge, it's just very time-consuming and putting it all onto poor Devin seems rather unkind.

Whoever jumps on board, try to focus on editing a faction's worth of dialogue or an area's worth. That way we won't get people crossing over.

 

Anyone up for this?

[Degby1]

Here's a few thoughts -

 

The NCR wouldnt withdraw from the Mojave overnight in the event of being beaten. If you have CAGE and beat the game, go to Camp Forlon Hope and speak to Tech Sgt Reyes, she has dialogue talking about nither the Legion nor the NCR took the Dam. The Legion would still be knocking about, although at a greatly reduced number as both Caesar and Lanius have been taken out. There might still be small skirish teams and Assasins wondering around, but no where near enough to hold the Fort. Perhaps evactuating from Cottonwood Cove, fighting a retreat.

 

The Mojave Outpost would be the border of NCR territory so expect a much larger military presence and a re-enforced Outpost. The Embassy is technically NCR Sovereign Territory, which someone like House might respect, given that he would still want to treade with the NCR, An Independent Vegas would be entirely at the players descression if they want to clear it for other uses or try to rebuild relations with the NCR at their own pace.

 

Camp Golf would have a number of former Desert Rangers who may want to stay in the Mojave. I've had a massive discussion with others on here who seem to think that the former Nevada Desert Rangers would leave with the NCR. Maybe some would, but the majority wouldnt I think.

 

The Strip would be in dismay, although to be fair a MK 2 Securitron can handle a group junkies with Pool Cues fairly easily.

There isa mod called "Run the Lucky 38" which would very much appeal to the idea of opening it up. 4000 Endorsements, plus the authors have given up adding anything new to it so maybe you lot could finish what they started with permission of course.

 

The Boomers and Brotherhood of Steel, along the Kings, Westside Milita, Gun Runners and the Chairmen would have to join forces to an extent, not so much being mates with eachother but atleast coming to some arrangement to keep order. The Followers also would require assistance. The Boomers and BoS would be the most challenging so a few quests would need to be completed for them to take a hands on approach. (This is an Independent Ending of course). The Great Khans can alos play a bigger role in the Mojave with the Legion and NCR gone, dependent on if Regis took over.

 

In a House ending, the BoS may have been destroyed, which is canonically the case, however there is a popular mod that allows the Courier to convince House to leave the BoS alone. Ulysses and Joshua Graham could come into the Mojave to help out, as could Boone and Raul to train a defence force. Big Mt and the Divide would also bolster any high end military tech that could be used to fight off any NCR or Legion have a go heros.

 

However the Courier would become a high value target for all factions negatively affected. I would like to see a plot that involves assasinating Colonel Moore or the NCR, given that shes an evil b***h who deserves a good slapping.

 

 

I'd be up for helping on this if needed. I'm also doing my own mod which is allowing me to practice with the GECK and I think New Vegas really does need its own Broken Steel type of mod.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Narmz

[devinpatterson]

Sorry, been mucking around on some projects. I'll put together a post addressing your points shortly (hopefully this evening when I get home from work).

In the mean time what's your skillsets and/or what do you *like* working on?

[Degby1]

I'm learning the Geck now and can do rudimentary work- redesigns, stat maniupulation, basic buildings and navmeshing. My strongest skills are in Photoshop I prefer doing Concept Art and story writing, however with these traits not particularly in high demand I can also do re-textures etc. Until my Nifskope skills have improved, which tbh doesnt seem like that hard a program to learn, I wont be able to do any custom weapons or armour. But as MarchUntoTorment said above, sounds like a lot of pre - Hoover Dam dialogue needs to be sorted out.

 

Plus I can work on my own mod while doing this one.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Narmz

[Devilman1975]

Narmz - Just wanted to comment on a few things in your recent post.

 

Here's a few thoughts -

 

The NCR wouldnt withdraw from the Mojave overnight in the event of being beaten. If you have CAGE and beat the game, go to Camp Forlon Hope and speak to Tech Sgt Reyes, she has dialogue talking about nither the Legion nor the NCR took the Dam. The Legion would still be knocking about, although at a greatly reduced number as both Caesar and Lanius have been taken out. There might still be small skirish teams and Assasins wondering around, but no where near enough to hold the Fort. Perhaps evactuating from Cottonwood Cove, fighting a retreat.

 

I would allow the NCR time to pack their bags but I would make sure that my Securitrons are monitoring their evacuation. A side quest could take place at Camp Forlorn Hope where the player can determine the fate of any wounded NCR soldiers that can net the player with either positive or negative NCR rep. Good rep for allowing the Followers of the Apocalypse to treat the wounder soldiers and grant them time to heal up before they get sent back home. Bad rep for forcing the NCR combat medics to leave immediately which would result in the soldiers deaths.

 

The Mojave Outpost would be the border of NCR territory so expect a much larger military presence and a re-enforced Outpost. The Embassy is technically NCR Sovereign Territory, which someone like House might respect, given that he would still want to treade with the NCR, An Independent Vegas would be entirely at the players descression if they want to clear it for other uses or try to rebuild relations with the NCR at their own pace.

 

Actually the Mojave Outpost is a checkpoint between California and the Mojave according to the wiki. I'm fine with it being the only place for the NCR to evacuate to but I would object to the NCR maintaining a military presence there afterwards. I agree that the Embassy should be kept as NCR in the Independent version. Offer to renovate the Embassy to keep the NCR sweet could net the player some positive NCR rep.

 

Here's a few thoughts -

 

Camp Golf would have a number of former Desert Rangers who may want to stay in the Mojave. I've had a massive discussion with others on here who seem to think that the former Nevada Desert Rangers would leave with the NCR. Maybe some would, but the majority wouldnt I think.

 

I'm in agreement with letting the Desert Rangers remain as an option in the game. If players choose not to have the Desert Rangers remain then the evil alternative is that Camp Golf becomes a resort for the rich again. I would like to see an option where a certain Desert Ranger character can ask the player to tear down the Mojave Outpost statue. The player can agree to this request or refuse it not wishing to antagonize the NCR further.

 

The statue is a nice landmark I have to admit but I would like to see an option appear later on to have a Courier statue constructed in it's place. I imagine that the statue could change to match the player's gender.

 

The Strip would be in dismay, although to be fair a MK 2 Securitron can handle a group junkies with Pool Cues fairly easily.

There isa mod called "Run the Lucky 38" which would very much appeal to the idea of opening it up. 4000 Endorsements, plus the authors have given up adding anything new to it so maybe you lot could finish what they started with permission of course.

 

I've used that mod before and while there was a lot that was good there were some things that I've found a little over the top. I would be happy to see some form of casino hotel management in the mod.

 

The Boomers and Brotherhood of Steel, along the Kings, Westside Milita, Gun Runners and the Chairmen would have to join forces to an extent, not so much being mates with eachother but atleast coming to some arrangement to keep order.

 

I'm not sure why you would want to lump these groups together. They all stick to their own areas which is for the best. Westside militia and the Kings take care of their own security issues. The Gun Runners are weapon manufacturers and are responsible for only the security of their own property. I can't see the Chairmen having any desire to leave the comfort of their casino to go slumming in Freeside.

 

The Boomers are (if completed Volare) certainly considered to be dangerous with their new found air power. Since they confess to enjoy bombing ignorant savages I feel that it's best to point them in the direction of the Legion (or the NCR if things get that bad). I mentioned that Fields Shack could be turned to a trading outpost for the Boomers while allowing them to keep outsiders away from Nellis.

 

In the Brotherhood's case I think it should depend on which Elder is in charge. Hardin is going to be a problem no doubt. McNamara on the other hand can be reasoned with as long as it helps him achieve the Brotherhood's goals. There's still tech data that was in Ed-E that the player can still pass along to the Brotherhood if players didn't choose the Brotherhood over the Followers in Ed-E's quest for example. You are right that these groups will need a series of quests.

 

In regards to the Great Khans the endings tend to have the Khans leave the Mojave or cease to exist as a tribe if they remain. In one of the NCR favored endings if Regis is made leader the NCR will offer the Khans amnesty and offer them barren, isolated territory far away from NCR trade routes. I will admit that I would not mind letting them go if it fits with the endings and turn their old camps to be become of future refugee camp for people escaping the Legion's territory.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Devilman1975

[Degby1]

Devilman

 

I'm about 90% in agreement with what you have said on here. Sending in Followers and Securitrons would make for an interesting mission. Having the choice of either finishing off the NCR at Forlorn Hope or assisting them would appeal to players who choose Good/Evil and Neutral Karma which would lead to different outcomes, similar to Fallout 3. The biggest problem would be having House or Yes Man delegate the tasks, unless of course they just "speak" through text and are largely unvoiced, unless of course their dialogue is cleverly spliced in Audiocity or some other program.

 

For the Mojave Outpost, is suppose it is possible that that would be abandoned entirely, especially if the NCR is nuked in Lonesome Road. However my reasoning behind having them guard that area as that it is a narrow strip and being an elevated position is easily defended. Plus any NCR scouts still snooping around have an evac point to reach. More importantly it could also serve to antagonise the Courier with Yes Man/House, being a big f**k you to them. I wouldnt put it past the NCR to try that, judging by the ego problems Lee and Kimball both have (although I killed both them).

 

The Desert Ranger / Camp Golf idea is appealing, have you had any more thought on how to implement this. Definitely that statue could be torn down, atleast the NCR ranger one could.

 

I quite liked that Run the Lucky 38 mod. It was a bit strange doing all that Enclave recruitment, but it did make sense in that the Lucky 38 did seem like a front to a bigger project and that having ex-Enclave guarding and carrying on research seems like a good idea.

 

As for the "tribes" it wouldnt be "lumping them together" - more of a mutual agreement that if they want to stay in business then they have to control their own turf. The Chairmen on the Strip could help guard it, nothing more. Westside Milita need training, as does the Kings so Boone, Raul and Arcade could train them, in which you could invest caps and resources for profit and interesting quests. The Gun Runners could provide employment to help bolster the local economy, plus they also seem to have their s#*! together from a semi fortified base and its always good to have an arms dealer on your side. Van Graffs could come into this too, if they wern't wiped out for Cass.

The Bos and Boomers would be the bulk of a Nevada Defense Force, followed by the remaining Desert Rangers. Obviously this is only possible if Volare is completed and McNamara stays in power. Fields Shack would be a trading post for the Boomers, and if Janet joins them then a trade agreement between them and Crimson would be possible. I wonder what would happen to that geeza who hangs around Fields Shack taking bets..?

 

ED-E would still have an abundence of data, some perhaps still locked away in additional memory banks, which would further benefit the BoS and Followers.

 

As for the Khans I feel like still have something to offer, they are skilled chemists after all, even if its only for peddling drugs.

[Devilman1975]

@ Narmz

 

In regards to the problem of dialogue with Yes Man and Mr House I suggested sometime ago that Devin's Marilyn Securitron mod can serve as a character who can work as a fill in for either Yes Man or House. Before Yes Man goes offline to upgrade his programming he can send the Marilyn Securitron to assist the player. In the House version the Marilyn securitron can serve as Mr House's personal secretary who can offer the players quests to complete if there is no way to splice dialogue for House.

 

As for the Mojave Outpost it would be stupid of the NCR to antagonize the player at this point. The player can easily stop the NCR from receiving water and electricity from Hoover Dam. It would not be in their best interests to go against the player just to keep an outpost that is outside their territory. As for the NCR's tactical advantage of having the outpost on high ground, it doesn't mean anything against 200 Securitrons armed with missiles.

 

I hear what you're saying about that the Enclave in the Run the Lucky 38 mod. It made me feel like I was hiding Nazi's in my home. There were other things about that mod that I thought were too much like the Helios One tower placed on the roof for example. As I've said before there some things I would keep like the bank, museum and hotel suites but I would be happy to see the rest cut out.

 

As for the idea of having Boone, Raul and Arcade training the Westside Milita and Kings I would have to say that it's completely unnecessary. Both Westside Militia and the Kings would not allow anyone to join if they couldn't already handle a weapon.

 

As for the Khans I still think it's best that we follow their endings. If the endings stated that the Khans stay behind in an independent New Vegas then I would be happy to discuss ideas involving them. However there is no place for them in a post game New Vegas and I think it would be best to follow the endings that were originally developed. The Khans being able to produce chems isn't enough of a reason to keep them around especially if anyone with a bit of science skill and a chemistry set can make stimpaks. The Followers of the Apocalypse already make their own chems and it wouldn't surprise me if the Omertas had their own drug lab.

[dangman4ever]

@ Narmz

 

 

As for the idea of having Boone, Raul and Arcade training the Westside Milita and Kings I would have to say that it's completely unnecessary. Both Westside Militia and the Kings would not allow anyone to join if they couldn't already handle a weapon.

While you are correct that the Westside Militia and the Kings don't need firearms training from Boone, Raul, and Arcade on account of their existing familiarity with firearms, the Westside Militia and the Kings do need proper training to fight as a cohesive and effective force. According to one of the endings for the Kings where you have the Kings attack the NCR yet the NCR still wins at Hoover Dam:

 

When the NCR moved to secure the region, they cracked down the hardest on Freeside, sending a full platoon to sweep the neighborhood. Most of The Kings were killed, with the few survivors driven out into the wastes.

 

A U.S Army Platoon these days can range from as little as 19 men for a light infantry platoon to as many as 39 to 42 men in a regular infantry platoon. Though during normal deployments in Afghanistan and Iraq saw that number drop down to 27. During my last "Kill All Kings" run a few months ago, I counted 27 Kings members plus the King and two groupies for a total of 30 personnel. So the NCR didn't quite have a major numerical advantage. If the Kings had been trained for actual military operations, they could have stopped or at least heavily bloodied the NCR platoon despite NCR's armor and weapons advantage.

 

Militias and gangs have generally done poorly against well motivated and/or well trained troops throughout history. An example of that in U.S history was during the American Revolutionary War where the U.S Continental Army learned the hard way that U.S militias could not be counted to hold their ground. Another example is the Los Zetas cartel in Mexico: Before their joining and creation of a cartel, they were former Mexican Special Forces soldiers. With the creation of Los Zetas, the cartel wars began to escalate in violence and effectiveness where Los Zetas began to absolutely crush a lot of their competition.

 

So the Westside militia and the Kings could use actual military training to increase their overall effectiveness. However, I don't think Boone, Arcade, or Raul would be good choices for that since their collective experiences aren't in the area of leading, training, or setting up actual armed forces. IMO, the few remaining Desert Rangers should be tasked with training the Westside Militia and the Kings since they have far more combat experience in a large military formations and operations than any of the three aforementioned companions combined.

[Degby1]

@Dangman4ever

 

Correct, a well trained Westside Militia and Kings could easily carry out effective guerrilla warfare tactics against the NCR, Legion, and anyone else. I think that given Boone's combat experience in Recon and Sharpshooting, he could train them in better accuracy and spotting. Scouting would benefit the Westside Militia also if they ever wanted to take the fight to the Fiends or whatever group comes after them. Raul has been fighting bandits for over 200 years, if anyone is well versed in urban warefare it would be him. Arcade could provide medical training, as every soldier needs rudimentry medical training. As a whole, however, the Desert Rangers would be the best bet. Talking of ex military, look at how many gangbangers are in the military today, training their mates how to surround a car properly during an ambush and weapon handling and then putting this in practice against rival gangs, just like the Los Zetas you mentioned. This is training that would benefit the Kings greatly, although the dialogue I hear from them, especially after killing Motor Runner suggests to me that they are a bit pussy!

 

@Devilman,

 

The Marylin idea would work as a go between. It would work in terms of lore in the sense that after holding Hoover Dam, there would be various tasks that would have be undertaken - Yes Man with his new personality, House developing and tweaking new technology.

 

Plenty of locations would need to retaken also, such as Helios One (possibly by the BoS, even with McNamara in charge), New Vegas Steel, El Dorado, Black Mountain plus the Vaults that could be refurbished and reused, such as Vault 3 and Vault 11.

 

Perhaps your right about the Khans and turning Red Rock into a refugee camp. But who would guard it? In the power vacuum (if no Securitrons were activated in the Fort) various mercenary and private military groups would show up, especially when word gets around that Vegas is relatively "safe" compared to the Washington DC area and theres profit to be made. That would lead to all kinds of quests.

[Devilman1975]

Regarding the Kings and Westside Militia I still believe it's not worth the effort to train them when you consider the type of threats they face on a daily basis. The Kings' only problem are the Freeside thugs that are so poor that they can't even afford small firearms. Westside militia may only face against a few Fiends that wander into the area and the Scorpions which are regarded as one of the lesser gangs in the game and may already be wiped out by the start of the mod. Sure the Westside militia could be trained to go directly after the Fiends but that would leave the settlement they're supposed to protect at risk from attack.

 

I would like to see army building as part of the mod and I would like to use some of the Desert Rangers and couple of the Remnants to serve as instructors. However it would take time to build up an army and players would not expect to deploy them until six months have passed. I would'nt want to see the Nevada Desert Rangers get absorbed into the Nevada Defense Force as they did with the NCR Rangers but they can remain as a special forces branch and take over Camp Golf and the other Ranger camps.

 

Plenty of locations would need to retaken also, such as Helios One (possibly by the BoS, even with McNamara in charge), New Vegas Steel, El Dorado, Black Mountain plus the Vaults that could be refurbished and reused, such as Vault 3 and Vault 11.

 

I would consider Vault 3 as the only vault worth taking and I would the write the other vaults off as I don't believe that they can be restored. I would be inclined to handing Vault 3 over to the Followers of Apocalpyse as their ending states that they have something of a logisitics problem. The Followers would need more than just the player throwing money in their direction and Vault 3 would provide them with the resources to manufacture chems, run sanitary clinics and classroom space to teach new recruits but this would have to be done after a few quests to take over Vault 3 and the other mentioned facilities in the South Vegas area.

 

I don't see any need in taking over Black Mountain either. It's just another radioactive ruin in the wasteland and serves no function for anyone asides from the Brotherhood of Steel. Even then I don't think they would be interested in taking control of it as long as the device that allows them to access the sattellite is still running.

 

Speaking of the Brotherhood I would be reluctant to hand them control of HELIOS One. Thankfully they did not know about it being a solar weapon and Elijah was the only one who knew before he disappeared. In Veronica's quest the player can activate HELIOS One as a weapon and when Veronica informs McNamara about it she tells him that it's a useless piece of artillary with no mobility and limited use. If the Brotherhood knows about HELIOS One's weapon system then they might allow the player to hold control of HELIOS One under the agreement that it is only used as a solar power plant and that the Elucid C Finder is destroyed which would keep HELIOS One from being used as a weapon against them in the future.

 

I'm sure that the Brotherhood under McNamara would be a bit sore about not being granted access to HELIOS One which would net the player some negative Brotherhood rep. I have suggested in previous posts other ways that the Brotherhood can benefit from a friendly relationship with the player such as introducing a new Van Graff character who the player can negotiate a trade deal with on behalf of the Brotherhood, help them get the crashed vertibird up and running, help them establish a Brotherhood trading hub outside Legion territory and also grant them excavation rights to the Divide. I still plan to keep Big MT's existence under my hat and once I've got tech to sell from that particular asset I'm sure that I can keep things sweet with the Brotherhood if I'm selling said tech to them.

 

Hardin on the other hand would cause a lot of problems. One of them would be demanding access to Hoover Dam as I'm sure he would be happy to see the NCR cut off from that source of water and electricity.

 

Later on I'll type out some more ideas I've got in regards to the start of the mod.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Devilman1975