spoiler Which king is better for orzammar.

[Shacary]

LOL i knwo this is an old thread but after re-reading it I decided to add my two cents! LOL firstly there is a letter written by King Endrin u can discover that proves Harrowmounts claim that the king did not want bhelen in power. So whatever tradionalist he is, its an honest one, and elders find changes hard to manage anyways.

when I play as the casteless, I always pick Bhelen, i hate that he is decieving, and I KNOW he is even without having played it thru, but I pick him for my sisters sake, If being casteless taught her one thing, it was to preserve and grab better things, especially for a sister that loved and cared for me, even to the extent of having to sell her body to feed us! No way I was going to let her down, and when bhelen was crowned I made a point of noting; I did it for my sister, and I think he capitulated about lifting her and baby up becuz of the " hint of threat" from teh warden [ ok i can imagine it but no doubt he realized he better cater to her booty, cuz otherwise she would slit his throat like all the darkspawn before her

As for the dwarven noble, well whiel she waits to be presented as the new commander of the troops, I over hear Poppa King talking about the value of tradition etc. I try to imagine that being raised with those values, and so far from the plight of casteless would make it " normal"and believably right to support Poppa Kings mores. for all the years she was raised to accept the caste system for normal. I realize fighting amongst the shems world might change some perspectives, but probably not enough, to alter her perception of orzammar values. Plus Bhelen killed my brother, and essentially the pc too thru exile or potential death, but also may have poisoned his own father!

I agree with thandal, he is a despot, and altho he does some good like digging a well in the desert for nomads, it doesnt cancel out to the DN what it has cost her, her people and her father. so harrowmount it is. ALso if u even hesitate in your comments to Bhelens shady second, he threatens u. Harrowmounts never does that, and yes the annoying run her cater to my requests irritate [ i felt manipulated by both canidates.] I still felt HArrowmount hte lesser of two evils.

sadly bhelen does more for the poor peeps than harrowmount but mb it is becuz he was so blocked and thwarted, but he did honor the pledge he made to King Endrin that he would never give the throne to the true kinslayer.

[edriano]

I think the guy I meet in the Tavern who spoke about

equality which will bring down the caste system is better.

To bad he is not an option, I go with horrowmont, simply

just because is the last wish of a dying man (death king).

[Askio]

I had fun with this last time. I sided with Bhelen the whole time, then chose Harrowmont. Ahhhhh that was fun to do.

 

As for me, it's hard to say. Change can come with difficulty. But otherwise, hard to say.

[CannonballCurry]

 

I just did the Dwarf Noble origin and I have to say Bhelen will regret crossing his sister, Harrowmont for king. Although I don't see why I can't take the throne myself.

I agree, why a noble dwarf character can't be king ( or queen)?

 

Just have to say: Regardless of who you side with... 1) Harrowmont is a traditionalist as is the council (more or less) and you were exiled (albeit under false charges) and you have been removed from all the history books for your supposed deeds so in their eyes you have no claim to the throne (especially considering how easy it was for them to condemn you to the deep roads without trial) 2) Bhelen killed your older brother AND set you up, he sure as hell isn't going to back up your claim to the throne... Would be cool to have you be able to claim throne would be awesome though. The king DOES go to fight darkspawn with his armies, you being a Grey Warden would only help in the long run... not to mention it's so obvious the "Ancestors" favor you for all the times you survive the unsurvivable, and of course the times you kick butt in the Proving...

[MagdalenaDwojniak]

I'd say no matter what, an Aeducan will still not be entirely happy about the deal.

 

 

Bhelen is definitely better in a longer run, because he is a bit like Ceasar - tough and ready for heartless politics, but efficient: not only for his own good, but as a whole. Just consider the casteless. Harrowmont seems nice, but he's inefficient and doesn't give a damn about moving anything forward: for him, the caste system works like a charm, because he is one of the nobles. This won't change, he only seals Orzammar further. I can imagine they eventually split - some dwarves run away (to what fate?), while others just waste away, overwhelmed by the darkspawn AND the lack of resources from the surface. I'd still say Bhelen is better, even for an Aeducan, because no matter what, Aeducan still reaps the spoils of being a Warden hero. Which, I imagine, in a city-state well aware of the threat the darkspawn pose, may be even of more real importance than a king.

 

Moreover, you are no longer a viable threat to Bhelen's power. As a Warden, you are stripped of titles. Yet, your knowledge of the darkspawn earns you respect - and you are needed more than any king, I imagine. There is little incentive for Bhelen to try to get you out of the picture: having a Warden sibling cements a king's power, but is not a threat to said power, because you can't attempt to get onto the throne.

 

For Broscas, the choice is obvious, I imagine: Bhelen. He's tough and remorseless, but hates the nobles to such an extent he will push things forward just to piss them off and show them who's the boss. And that benefits the lower castes and the casteless.

 

 

But I am not too knowledgeable about Orzammar dwarves. If you asked me about Drakensang ones, I'd be all game, so take my opinion lightly :smile:.

Edited July 22, 2015 by MagdalenaDwojniak

[Katarsi]

I always go for Harrowmont.

 

 

If your Warden chooses Bhelen, while knowing what a slimy, scheming fratricide he is, what does that make your Warden? A supporter of such a thing? Might as well pat Loghain on the back for abandoning Cailan and Duncan at Ostagar.

When we're at the point of the game in Orzammar, the Warden can't possibly know that Bhelen would bring prosperity to dwarves, nor that Harrowmont would perish soon after becoming king. The Warden is only left with an immediate choice: the man who's obviously righteous to the core, or the man who's blackmailing and murdering left and right just to get the throne. If we take the political stance to view things, then yeah, Bhelen would be a wise choice. But the Warden isn't a politician.

In my opinion, the Warden isn't and never could be a political figure, even if he/she gets to partake in ruling Ferelden; eventually, he/she embraces the position of the Warden Commander as their priority, leaving the matters of the kingdom to their spouse. The Warden's priority by their very essence is protecting people in a real sense - on the battlefield, not from the seat of power. If we consider that fact, then the obvious choice for the Warden would be Harrowmont, because it's clear that Harrowmont's system of values would never allow murdering an innocent for any possible cause.
Now, I don't know what's the situation if the Warden is a dwarf, because I've never played as a dwarf. Their nature and general way of life is too diverse from my concepts......aaaand I'm slightly claustrophobic :blush: However, as a Warden of any other race, the only choice I could make would be Harrowmont.

I know that the ending is unsatisfactory for this choice, but the Warden isn't responsible for political shenanigans of dwarves (unless being a dwarf themselves, I guess); the Warden's priority was finding allies against the Blight, not posing as a friggin' Andraste and getting into specific finesses of different people's lifestyles and "setting them straight". The Warden follows his/her conscience along the principles of the Warden's Oath, and its top commandment is "protect the innocent", not protect the douchebags.

 

 

But meh, that's just my personal opinion. :cool:

[rosvitacousland]

Well, I choose Harrowmont. He seems to be honourable and I believe, that the earlier king designated him. (The fact, that later on Harrowmont's politics will fail, as it is said in the final slide show, cannot be part of my decision, because I don't know this detail at that point of the plot.)

 

On the other hand we've got an murderer and ursurper of the throne, infamous and unscrupulous - not the kind of men, that I like to see on any throne. Furthermore I cordially dislike Bhelen. By the way, when I started to play as his royal sister and found the suspicion affirmed, I was yet more pleased about my previous decision.

 

And @ Thandal: I am afraid, that we don't need to go back in history as far as you did or even at all. Pragmatic politics in the name of national interests is usual practice until today, by all means in some countries. (Maybe less in Germany, because we have got an uneasy relationship to everything concerning "national"... At least not official, not in blunt words.)

[Thandal]

@rosvitacousland; HooKay... (munches popcorn while watching Angela deal with the consequences of NOT putting the "nation" first.)

 

Just Kidding! I always pick Harrowmont, even though he will fail. But so will Behlen, and for much worse reasons. :laugh:

[rosvitacousland]

@rosvitacousland; HooKay... (munches popcorn while watching Angela deal with the consequences of NOT putting the "nation" first.)

 

Just Kidding! I always pick Harrowmont, even though he will fail. But so will Behlen, and for much worse reasons. :laugh:

@Thandal: Forgive me! I shouldn’t displease my favourite moderator, I really shouldn’t. :D

 

First of all concerning Mrs. Merkel I want to stress that I agree with you. Your are right a hundred per cent. Three times she took an oath to protect my people (yes, even our constitution contains this kind of oath to protect the German people, not the inhabitants of our state, and much less foreign peoples). Maybe she forgot? I guess, if she swears next time the bible will jump out of her hand... Actually, there’s no danger of that happening again, because we won’t have any elections again. And if we have, we won’t elect her and even her new pets will found their own parties.

[SilverLucario]

Personally supporting Bheler, can be a tyrant, evil, lying, manipulative, petty and tricky person, but you need someone tyrant to rule the f*#@ing dwarves since they are stubborn by nature. Under his command he manages to reach a future of glory ... since I did not allow anyone to get in the way of his thinking of modernity ... some will see him as a tyrant and I see him as a visionary who knew how to maintain order between a Race that because of its irrational traditionalism was to the point of its extermination.