I could use some help from advanced modders

[chucksteel]

I'm trying to rework my mod for stability and, compatibility sake. After adding 8 new worldspaces I started to run into some navemesh problems and, the random exit crash. Also, I would like to have a mod that doesn't require FO3edit Master Update to work properly. Not because, I have anything against it! I use it myself but, some users are ether unaware of its benefits or, are apposed to it for other reasons.

 

At first I was just thinking I would only have to convert my mod to esm's but, I've ran into a few snags. For example, I've ben trying to keep my mod compatible with Yevics Urban Apartment but, when I just convert to an esm Yevics over rights parts of my L'Enfant Plaza. I also experience some random crashes when I have his mod activated. No offense to Yevics,I love his player home, that is why I'm trying so hard to keep it compatible but, I know his mod is a little messy. I've looked at it both in the GECK and FO3edit. There are tons of deleted references and, other odd moved objects even in areas where his building is not. I would simply try to contact him but, when I look at his profile it doesn't seem he's ben active since August.

 

My real question is how can I fix this issue? A straight esp will end up in lost followers and, exit crashes with my mod. An esm will fix these issues but, allow other mods to over right my work. Should I consider doing a Master (ESM)/Plug-in (ESP) pair? If so, is there any good tutorials on how to pull this off. Can any of you Gurus give me any advice or, direction?

 

When I read Miaxs Tome of FO3Edit, It tells me how to do it in FO3edit but not why or what needs to be in the master and what needs to be in the slave! I'm just a little confused on which direction to proceed.

 

any help, suggestions, advice would be truly appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Honeybiscuit]

Whats up bro I may have a solution but dont know this link has so good stuff on the worldspaces so I hope this helps

 

http://www.theengineeringguild.co.uk/fallo...es-the-easy-way

[chucksteel]

I want to publicly apologize to Yevics, my comments were not by any means meant to bash him or his mod. In fact it is a mod that I use and like a lot. It is just one mod in particular that I'm having issues with and, truly want to maintain compatibility with.

 

My only intent with this post was to try to get some advice from more experienced modders on how to organize my mod to get the best stability and compatibility with other mods.

 

I made a bad assumption of him being inactive after getting frustrated by things I was working on not working as I expected.

 

I'm sorry

[BadPenney]

I know nothing about the house mod to which you refer, but personally I would do nothing to try making a mod compatible with a dirty mod. Deleted vanilla references is a major red flag, and persistent crashing is one of their effects. Common advice is not to clean someone else's mod, but if you like a mod and it is giving you issues then you could clean your own personal version of it so that it is compatible with your own clean mod. If a dirty mod is causing problems with your mod then no doubt it is causing problems with other mods too, and it is that mod author's responsibility to fix the problems, not yours.

 

If you have pointed out issues with an author's mod then you have done him a favor, and there is no shame in that. Comments about a mod here are no more public than the comments section on a mod's download page, and your comments are considerably more polite than some that I have gotten, so I don't believe that you have said anything deserving of an apology. If a mod author doesn't appreciate your comments and doesn't want to address any of the problems with his mod that you point out then that is his choice and maybe his loss.

 

I think that it is possible to create a mod that remains an .esp, but if mastering your mod takes care of issues that are more than cosmetic that you can't resolve otherwise then I say go ahead and master it. Maybe one day Bethesda will make a patch that makes mastering unnecessary, but until then we do the best we can with what we have.

 

My own approach is to attempt to make a mod accessible to the most people possible. There will always be individuals (quite often the most vocal) who will insist that you tailor your mod to their personal taste or their mod list and load order. You could go nuts trying to make everyone happy without ever achieving it. I think that you should mod for your own personal taste. You aren't getting paid by the people who download your mod, so there is no reason to treat them like clients with veto power. Pay attention to comments about your mod that affect general compatiblity and playability but dismiss comments that are unhelpful or involve changes that don't take your mod in the direction that you want to go with it.

 

No one is compelled to download your mod. If it doesn't work for them then they can uninstall it and go about their business. As long as a mod is compatible with Fallout3.esm and the DLCs then I feel that the author has done all that can be expected of him. Trying to adapt to every current and future popular mod and all of their revisions would be an endless task. My viewpoint is that unless you want one mod to be a nearly full time job then don't attempt it.

[chucksteel]

I posted the apology not because I felt bad but, because I should have contacted the author before saying anything about his mod. I made the assumption that he was inactive, when he really just went back to modding oblivion.

 

I try very hard to keep my mod squeaky clean, it is possible there are things I have yet to learn that I need to address.

 

My real question has yet to be answered on here or the beth site, I know I need to go to the esm format but is it best to go straight esm or should I think about doing a Master (ESM)/Plug-in (ESP) pair? If so is there any good tutorials, links to help me figure out what needs to be in what file?

 

I know I'm a relative noob compared to most of you, but I'm still trying to put out the best mod I can!

 

one last question for you experienced modders! Why is it when I tell someone less experienced than, me they don't believe that deleting vanilla ref's is a bad thing? They always end up saying what does it matter if I delete a door barricade! Is there a tread that could explain it to them? It was explained to me by another modder and, I got it, if the game is looking for something that is no longer there it causes trouble! Easy as that!

 

thanks again

[BadPenney]

Why is it... they don't believe that deleting vanilla ref's is a bad thing?

Quite often, even people who have created mods before don't believe that deleting vanilla assets is a bad thing because it has not affected THEM. (Why shouldn't I leave my skateboard at the top of the stairs? It's convenient. I've never had a problem with it!) Often times people with this viewpoint will voice the opinion that it doesn't matter in threads like this and further muddy the waters. It may only be a problem for another mod that uses one of those objects as a reference. Then when both of those mods end up in the same load list the CTDs begin. Refusing to acknowledge this eventuality and refusing to take the simple steps to avoid it is selfish and unkind, imo.

 

It is also important to note that while modding for FO3 is similar to modding for Oblivion, the processes are not identical. So someone who has modded for Oblivion for years may be used to methods that are less efficient or simply do not work when it comes to creating mods for FO3. That may not stop them from laying down the "final word" based on their experience, though.

 

I have never felt the need to create an .esm/.esp pair. If you think about it though, all .esp plugins are part of a pair or multiple, even if Fallout3.esm is the only Masterfile in the pairing. Your .esp will not function without it. In your case, if you want to do this sort of thing in order to make nice with that particular house mod that you referred to, then possibly putting everything that is not affected by that mod in your .esm while placing the affected portions in the .esp might be the ticket. Your .esm would be loaded before the house .esp by default, and then your .esp could be loaded after the house.esp so that it could overwrite all of the sloppiness that is causing problems for you.