And So It Begins...

[SB2ean]

IMO' the idea of downloadable content is a good idea

but the way Bethesda has gone about it just plain stinks .

, its like Valve releasing HalfLife 2 without the shotgun

then a few weeks later saying we made a shotgun if you want it you must pay .

You can compare it to as many cups of coffee , or other seemingly everyday items as you like

its not about cost.

Hopefully it s a one off just to introduce the Downloads System then they will get too making some good

stuff morelike mini Expansions at reduced price that add much wanted features or new story content etc

.. oh and a patch too but we dont wanna pay for that do we

(then again if its only the price of a snickers bar who cares :) --)

[Visbontavon]

IMO' the idea of downloadable content is a good idea

but the way Bethesda has gone about it just plain stinks .

, its like Valve releasing HalfLife 2 without the shotgun

then a few weeks later saying we made a shotgun if you want it you must pay .

 

I understand where you're coming from, but nothing they're charging for is required. If they had left out all the bows in the game and charged you $2 to add them (shotgun analogy) yeah, that'd be bad. If they left out the main boss in the game, so you couldn't complete the main story line, yeah that'd be bad. But in reality, it's just some side quests and trinkets.

 

A game fix patch is surely being worked on, but there is a time frame before they can release it. First they have to identify all major issues that need to be fixed, Fathis anyone?, then they have to identify how those problems arrise, then they have to fix them and thoroughly test them. Also, you have to keep in mind that only the programmers can do that. What are all the level designers, artists, etc. working on? Mods.

[Talus057]

I would point out that this is all Microsoft's fault and has nothing to do with EA. If the microsoft machine wouldnt sell their crap as unlockable/purchasable than we wouldnt be in this situation. I hate EA probably more than the next guy, since im from old school UO, but the blame should be placed solely on Microsoft.

 

What Bethesda is doing is a recent trend of immoral business ethics manufactured by such greedy american and western european companies who want money no matter what the cost. In this case Bethesda, who probably didnt put much thought into the 1.99 cost, which is an assumption that most of their gamers can use, or want to use, a credit card to purchase it. I point to Bioware as referrance to their lite-expansions that they developed at the least peak of the original Neverwinter Nights. While these mods werent all as professional as the 2 'expansions' they were still packed full of things to keep you busy for at least a while. As professional as it was delivered these modules were, and can be, found on pirate websites accross the internet. We are already seeing ways around the 1.99 price to download these mods, as people are creating their own versions, and it is only a matter of time before this progresses way out of their hand. While they are welcome to their own business ethics, once you start putting your finger up your customer's behind the customer tends to get aggitated at the moral value of the arguement at hand and resort to more drastic measures in order to combat the thick finger in the tiny anal crevice.

 

Valve, however, is a bad example as their publisher is currently EA and they release more mods than they do actual games. Our modding community has more skill than them idiots.

 

The example of ArenaNet's GuildWars, published by the now famous NCSoft, is a good one. ArenaNet, known better in their community as ANet, had alot of inner-discussion on the matter of how they would pay for the cost of running the game itself. The community is absolutely huge, spanning accross the world from Korea, Japan, America and the entire European Union and France. One release, thanks to their MORAL business ethics, can make a HUGE income for them. They expect a very large income from their expansion, GuildWars: Factions, due to such moral practices. The case made previous that everything comes with a price is simply an excuse. It is a CAPITALIST excuse. Yes, I agree with the latter author submitting his/her words to this article. This is a CAPITALIST mindset. Capitalism is not what it used to be. Capitalism, in modern times, is the process of earning capital by any means necessary. Perhaps some leninism could be worth more in weight than the pockets of gold they wear that will soon be empty by such cold and ill-thought practices of business. Time will tell. Yes it will indeed.

 

This is just the tip of the ice burg. If Bethesda continues to act like EA then I will be forced to trade in Oblivion while it is still worth good money to EBGames. While I enjoy Oblivion and will never trade in my copy of Morrowind, which still has mods releasing even after Oblivion is released, which makes Morrowind a money-maker today in its own right, I will not condone such actions or give my money to supply greed. My business ethics are unquestioned and I do have virtue, humility and honor. That gives me pride. I will not have my pride tarnished by one, or more, company's greed.

 

They can change their ways or be brought to their knees as they will lose the loyalty of the community they created when the time comes in the future for them to release an expansion or another TES stand-alone game.

"On a long enough time line, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero."

 

Bethesda, Youve been warned.

 

 

 

 

In other news, I look forward to the release of Sony's Playstation 3. The day will come when Microsoft gets obliterated from the console gaming industry. On that day I will be very pleased. Death to EA. Death to Microsoft. Death to Bethesda? We shall see... They can edit their own forums but they cant edit the #1 modding site for both Morrowind and Oblivion's forums, nor can they edit this forum or any of the others. The only people who dont look into their game before they buy it are the 360 gamers, obviously, and children... Most of us are neither.

[Peregrine]

I would point out that this is all Microsoft's fault and has nothing to do with EA. If the microsoft machine wouldnt sell their crap as unlockable/purchasable than we wouldnt be in this situation. I hate EA probably more than the next guy, since im from old school UO, but the blame should be placed solely on Microsoft.

 

Of course EA is irrelevant. They were only mentioned because they do similar things, and have a reputation for releasing a patch and a tiny bit of new content as an "expansion" and charging for the download. Unfortunately, this seems to be the path Bethesda is headed down.

[clintonius]

Of course EA is irrelevant. They were only mentioned because they do similar things, and have a reputation for releasing a patch and a tiny bit of new content as an "expansion" and charging for the download. Unfortunately, this seems to be the path Bethesda is headed down.

Sadly, most people pass on ethics for greater capital gains.

[Akabar]

If I could have paid a couple trivial amounts of $2 here and there to keep Looking Glass Studios afloat, or one of the million other great game companies that have died I would do it in a heart beat. Excellant Job, Bestheda, making a better business model. After all, next year's madden still costs $50 just like oblivion and probably cost about $2 million, if that to make. Oblivion probably budgeted anywhere from 15-25 million.

 

Nobody's making you pay it.

 

... And there you hit the nail on the head...." Nobody's making you pay it". I understand how the modding community is a bit frustrated about how MW offered all of its plugins for free, but the bottom line is... Businesses need to make money. Looking Glass Studios, Origin, and Black Isle Studios are all great examples of what can happen to excellent & talented groups of game makers. What ends up happening is that even though those studios made some of the most successful games in history they were bought out or shut down because of poor profit margins. I agree 100% that the CS was watered down because they wanted a way to be able to create mods and plugins that could not be created by the public. If this (or any other company or organization) cannot show their stakeholders that they can be VERY profitable after a 4 YEAR PROJECT (Which is a MONSTEROUS project by any standard!) then the game community can pretty much kiss these types of VERY large, expansive games good-bye. Remember everyone that a project of this magnitude requires a ton of funding for quite a few years with absolutely no return (which = BIG RISK). If the investors or stakeholders don't get a good feeling that the project will payoff at the end the project (or awesome game in this case) would have never been created. Bottom line.... Yes it’s a bummer that they nerfed the CS and it’s a bummer that they are charging for official mods/plugins, but it would've sucked even more if this game never came out.

[clintonius]

... And there you hit the nail on the head...." Nobody's making you pay it". I understand how the modding community is a bit frustrated about how MW offered all of its plugins for free, but the bottom line is... Businesses need to make money. Looking Glass Studios, Origin, and Black Isle Studios are all great examples of what can happen to excellent & talented groups of game makers. What ends up happening is that even though those studios made some of the most successful games in history they were bought out or shut down because of poor profit margins. I agree 100% that the CS was watered down because they wanted a way to be able to create mods and plugins that could not be created by the public. If this (or any other company or organization) cannot show their stakeholders that they can be VERY profitable after a 4 YEAR PROJECT (Which is a MONSTEROUS project by any standard!) then the game community can pretty much kiss these types of VERY large, expansive games good-bye. Remember everyone that a project of this magnitude requires a ton of funding for quite a few years with absolutely no return (which = BIG RISK). If the investors or stakeholders don't get a good feeling that the project will payoff at the end the project (or awesome game in this case) would have never been created. Bottom line.... Yes it’s a bummer that they nerfed the CS and it’s a bummer that they are charging for official mods/plugins, but it would've sucked even more if this game never came out.

Where all this is very true, the point is that they are royally screwing up two of the things that made Morrowind so popular: the CS and the endless amount of content that it provided. I don't really see anything wrong with them charging a nominal fee for extra content, except when it is for a relativly useless mod. They should only charge for a package of mods or a "mini expansion" if you will. EQII did this, not that I'm comparing Oblivion to EQII or that I like SOE, and it didn't seem like too big of a rip off. Though, they did charge, in my opinion, a little too much for what they offered. Ultimatly, I wouldn't mind paying up to $6.99 for a true mini expansion but not for a single mod; that just seems outlandish to me.

[Ancalagon]

I just found out the whole "1.99 for this plugin" crap today on Beth's site. It makes me sick, I understand the whole cmpany = profit seekers thing, but still those three things should have been put into the game from the get out, I mean it's been less than a month since Obliv has come out.

 

This just reminds me of EQII, sadly. I had really hoped that Bethseda would have backed the modding community better than this, this is just a knife in the back IMO. The three mods are worthless, I mean Peregrine was right when he said he smelled something rotten when the final specs on the CS came out. I was a little wary when Beth stated that the CS was availiable for download bar some minor tweaks and things left out.

 

They're turning into Steam, is what they're doing. Bloody effing hell... >_<

 

And what's more, do any of you have any idea how effing hard it is to find a decent flask of Cyrodilic Brandy!? I mean, one would think that the country in mind would have it's namesake drink widely availiable for consumption instead of ruddy mead and beer. Hell, if I wanted mead I'd go back to Thirsk for...aw forget it...

[Peregrine]

They're turning into Steam, is what they're doing. Bloody effing hell... >_<

 

Actually, that's an insult to Steam's good name, associating them with this kind of dishonesty. Steam's patch support has been pretty good, from what I've seen. Updates are coming fairly frequently, like they should be. And even if things are a bit slow to be released (new maps/character models), you aren't paying for them. If they were acting like Bethesda, you'd have paid $2 for each of the new character models, and $5 per map!

 

But really, I don't understand everyone's hatred of Steam. Assuming you've got the bandwidth to run it (and if you don't, why are you playing a FPS online anyway?), it works pretty well. I don't see any additional inconvenience compared to other games.

[Ancalagon]

Eh, I concede. Maybe stating that they're acting like EQII or Sony would have been more in line. Either way, I'm clearly frusterated with the whole "pay as you play" idea.

Added with the total lack of information concerning what happened in Morrowind (Caius Cosades is [by me] presumably dead) and the lack of dialouge choices ("rumors" now serves as lore, advice, and secret) as well as taunting has me in a sore mood. I still like the game, I just feel that quite a bit of content has been pulled for the sake of the Console crowd. Some of us actually like conversations with NPCs to last more than what we "need to know".