The Long 15 (Advice sought)

[SayinNuthin]

The long 15, the road back to California and the Republic. The first time I played NV I TCL'd through the gates and the barriers and went for a jog, an I was astounded at the size of the gameworld that seems to go all the way to the Pacific. I thought wasn't it nice of Bethsoft to give the modding community all this space to play with and waited with anticipation for stakes to be claimed and the places filled in.

 

Five years later... It's not happening is it.. Well Dammit I'm going to bloodywell have a go myself! Because efforts in that direction haven't been successful, have they? Have I missed any good ones?

 

People, modders seem to rush out there and start constructing fortifications (why? it's in NCR territory... ) But I fancy seeing what landscape can do, perhaps a few animals, random scorpions and the odd deathclaw for interest but 'the place' is interesting for me (perhaps I'm just a boring fan of geography).

 

So to the left of the 1-15 according to google maps is the Mohave reserve for about 200 bleeding miles. How hard can that be to model? it's a dessert.. There is nothing until Baker (which looks like a classic one-horse town) then at 99.9 miles from Vegas the spectacularly named Zzyyxx Road which leads to a soda spring then nothing again, just buggerall.

 

What I'd like to put into the game is a sense of space, scale because after the umpteenth playthrough the Mojave feels like my back yard now. So I'd like to try painting broad strokes, not details, not scripted quests, characters with interesting dialogue but something to try to suggest this;

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YMCWR8jzpU&feature=kp

Which I know is in Texas but that's besides the point..

 

So advise please. Scale first, should I try to put the ruins of Baker (Ruins covered in sand.. barely anything remaining of the Mad Greek restaurant) in the bottom of the existing pip-boy map? And for that matter why can't the map see the rest of the game world and has anyone done anything about that? And what about Lore, apart from the cells the Long 15 DLC uses is there anything out there...

 

Do I have to make a new map gamespace? Couldn't some Taos Hum phenomena explain why your pip-boy can't get a location fix which might help achieve the sense of 'lost in the dessert' I'd like to make.

 

I'm not claiming, unlike various overambitious types in the past, I intend to rebuild all the fallout 1 and 2 content I just want to see how far I can go painting rocks, sand and chaparral across the base mesh and if that can be used by all the happy fort builders out there, well that'd be a bonus.

 

-this could actually be The! most boring mod in the history of Fallout couldn't it? Now there's a record to cherish. Lol.

[dangman4ever]

Well there is a mod that creates/include the Barstow area:

http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/40980/?

[SayinNuthin]

Bingo! Thank you the last time I noticed that mod it didn't have the NPC quantity adjustment so my low-mid machine wouldn't look at it. I shall immediately DL it and have a go.

 

But a couple of questions jump out from his description, First he shows the vanilla playable area touching the bottom of the Pip-boy map?.. Not on my game it doesn't, On a my game there's a broad vacant zone to the south, corresponding to where the Mojave reserve would be before you leave the map.

 

The second question is Lore, why is the NCR expanding into the Mojave if it is still has other conflicts unresolved? Unless they have a clinically insane leader like Adolf Hitler, states generally tend to avoid opening new fronts and taking on new enemies, while they are already fighting a war. The 'NPC chatter' in FNV about the NCR makes no mention of other wars... I thought it was peaceful back west barring some low-intensity police-type actions against remnants of this, that or the other. Just skinning geckos and shovelling Brahmin dung?

 

[Edit] Just fired it up and the 'Peaceful-Coexistence' patch won't run at all... Hehehe Peace, apparently, is NOT our profession :laugh:

Edited June 20, 2014 by SayinNuthin

[dangman4ever]

 

 

The second question is Lore, why is the NCR expanding into the Mojave if it is still has other conflicts unresolved? Unless they have a clinically insane leader like Adolf Hitler, states generally tend to avoid opening new fronts and taking on new enemies, while they are already fighting a war. The 'NPC chatter' in FNV about the NCR makes no mention of other wars... I thought it was peaceful back west barring some low-intensity police-type actions against remnants of this, that or the other. Just skinning geckos and shovelling Brahmin dung?

 

[Edit] Just fired it up and the 'Peaceful-Coexistence' patch won't run at all... Hehehe Peace, apparently, is NOT our profession :laugh:

Actually no. History is full of examples of states/groups doing exactly that. The most obvious recent example is the U.S starting a war against Iraq in 2003 while it was still fighting a war in Afghanistan. Keep going through history and you see more examples like:

 

• Japan starting a war against the U.S with the Pearl Harbor attack while it was still fighting a war in China in the 1940s.
• The U.S technically was fighting a two-front war as well during WW2: In the Pacific and in Europe.
• ISIS was created in Iraq to fight the Iraqi government/U.S forces in 2003 and still was fighting the Iraqi government when they hopped over the border into Syria to fight the Syrian government and non-Sunni rebel groups.
• While technically not at war at the time, Israel did take on three different nations at once during the Six-Day War and basically took a ton of territory as a result.
• During WW1, the Germans took on multiple enemies at once.
• Under Napolean, France fought Spain, Portugal, England, and Russia all at once.
• In the 1230s, Ogedei Khan was fighting the Jin Dynasty of China, the Khwarezmian Empire in the Middle East/Central Asia, and the Kingdom of Goryeo in Korea all at the same time.
• His father Genghis Khan...well just read his wiki entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan#Military_campaigns

 

As for the NPC chatter, if you talk to the Chief Hanlon of the Rangers, he actually mentions IIRC operations in Baja California. Also, the NV Radio also mentions the redeployment of Veteran Rangers from Baja to the Mojave.

Edited June 21, 2014 by dangman4ever

[SayinNuthin]

Re, dangman4ever. Well there you go. As it happens I do listen to Hanlon he's one of my favourite sequences in the whole game only matched by Joshua Graham's soulful explanations. Which provokes the question why no one has modded a worldspace/battle thing with the Rangers down in Baja. MyGoodEye (the author of WARZONES) would have a free hand all the way down there or is there some other chunk of lore of which I'm blissfully unaware?

 

But your 'second front' explanations.. are not completely convincing for me I'm afraid. Napoleon Bonaparte, mad! Tojo and his gang of thugs, mad! Kaiser Wilhelm, perhaps not quite so demented in the way Bonaparte and Tojo were, but so fantastically incompetent as to make it something of a distinction without a difference. The U.S didn't exactly 'choose' to start the Pacific theatre and that lack of choice, I think the Israelis would say, applied in their case too. As for the 'recent' actions in the middle east, I'd rather not comment than almost certainly offend the Americans here with my opinions.

 

The ancient world And the far east to boot.. I'll take your word for that. But I have the idea you could find many reckless uber-beligerants among the conquerors in the far reaches of history, most of whom would qualify as war criminals, psychopaths or serial killers today.. no? Or at the very least be bumped to the head of the queue for some serious therapy.

 

Was it Twain or perhaps Shaw that said something along the lines of 'History isn't made by reasonable men' hmm, whoever it was got that right...

 

And thanks for the recommendation, I had a look at the WARZONES mod, Holy Cow! Hats off to the man, epic isn't in it. Though not really my cup of tea standing there pumping dozens of rounds into his super buffed bosses (lost patience with them and did [killall] when my favourite GodWeapon failed) But what a job he did on the gamespaces - colossal! I don't aspire to that degree of.. busyness but something anyone can bimble around in.

[dangman4ever]

Re, dangman4ever. Well there you go. As it happens I do listen to Hanlon he's one of my favourite sequences in the whole game only matched by Joshua Graham's soulful explanations. Which provokes the question why no one has modded a worldspace/battle thing with the Rangers down in Baja. MyGoodEye (the author of WARZONES) would have a free hand all the way down there or is there some other chunk of lore of which I'm blissfully unaware?

 

But your 'second front' explanations.. are not completely convincing for me I'm afraid. Napoleon Bonaparte, mad! Tojo and his gang of thugs, mad! Kaiser Wilhelm, perhaps not quite so demented in the way Bonaparte and Tojo were, but so fantastically incompetent as to make it something of a distinction without a difference. The U.S didn't exactly 'choose' to start the Pacific theatre and that lack of choice, I think the Israelis would say, applied in their case too. As for the 'recent' actions in the middle east, I'd rather not comment than almost certainly offend the Americans here with my opinions.

 

The ancient world And the far east to boot.. I'll take your word for that. But I have the idea you could find many reckless uber-beligerants among the conquerors in the far reaches of history, most of whom would qualify as war criminals, psychopaths or serial killers today.. no? Or at the very least be bumped to the head of the queue for some serious therapy.

 

Was it Twain or perhaps Shaw that said something along the lines of 'History isn't made by reasonable men' hmm, whoever it was got that right...

 

And thanks for the recommendation, I had a look at the WARZONES mod, Holy Cow! Hats off to the man, epic isn't in it. Though not really my cup of tea standing there pumping dozens of rounds into his super buffed bosses (lost patience with them and did [killall] when my favourite GodWeapon failed) But what a job he did on the gamespaces - colossal! I don't aspire to that degree of.. busyness but something anyone can bimble around in.

Not convincing in what way? Now I'm not saying starting multi-front wars is a common occurrence but it's not a rare event either.Regardless of how you characterize those who started multi-front wars, they still occurred multiple times throughout history.

[SayinNuthin]

Apologies, expressed myself badly (again) not *completely* convincing as a scenario whereby the NCR would commit to another conflict when they had one unresolved elsewhere. They are, after all portrayed as the reasonable ones, corrupt, bureaucratic but ultimately reasonable.

As opposed to Caesar who is a comic-book parody of every dictator and warlord who's ever given anyone on Capitol hill a sleepless night (did Baldy give you the impression he was channelling Pol Pot for a while there? :ermm: ) and who comes over as someone who wouldn't hesitate to march on Moscow!

 

Anyway thanx again for your Warzones tip,and... you don't know anything about editing the Base Landscape textures do you... Lols..

[dangman4ever]

Apologies, expressed myself badly (again) not *completely* convincing as a scenario whereby the NCR would commit to another conflict when they had one unresolved elsewhere. They are, after all portrayed as the reasonable ones, corrupt, bureaucratic but ultimately reasonable.

 

I'd have to disagree. In addition to what I said above about starting multi-front wars, there's also a strong hint of colonialism in the game and the simple fact that groups of people tend to expand in order to gain more resources or believe that they need to expand. See Manifest Destiny as an example of this. In this case, the electricity and clean water flowing from the Hoover Dam is a vital resource for the NCR.

 

Even without what I said above, the in-game lore explains the event that began the push into the Mojave: The massacre of 38 NCR citizens by raiders in the Mojave lead to the deployment of three battalions into the area for retaliation:

http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Mojave_Campaign

 

Throughout history, states/nations/groups have acted in similar manners. Big example of that: the massacre of Mongol envoys by the Khwarezmians lead to the Mongols completely smashing almost all of the Khwarezmian empire. Then there's the Wakrausa war where Missourians invaded Kansas and besieged the city of Lawrence after a pro-slavery settler shot and killed an anti-slavery settler. Or the L.A riots in 1992 after the Rodney King trial. Or how the Spanish-American war started after the media exaggerated the events of the destruction of the USS Maine and blamed Spain for it.

[SayinNuthin]

Well there's me told and I defer to your superior knowledge of game lore and the history of the origins of wars. When you put it in terms of colonialism, having grown up in one, it becomes clearer.

 

Onwards, upwards and a new topic on GECKery...

[SayinNuthin]

As the game's 'Long 15' is in another gamespace, as is WarZones (I didn't know not having nuked the NCR before) it seems there is nothing to stop me putting what I want out there. And while painting grass and trees and the odd scorpion is my idea of entertaining perhaps I should 'try' to make it more interesting for others.

 

Anyone else here disappointed with the nine(?) wild wasteland events?... Lots of room out there. Room enough for Sergio Leone's huge 'Sad Hill Cemetery' with a grave containing a unique 'Angel Eyes' revolver - Ah, but even if you can find it, which grave?

 

http://content7.flixster.com/question/49/23/71/4923713_std.jpg

 

Or a couple of motorbikes, one burned, two dead bodies and a shedload of chems. Or how about the Joad family pickup, piled high with the family's possessions (loot - Wasteland survival guide).

 

As a movie fan this appeals to me no end so if anyone could suggest any (doable) iconic dessert movie locations I'd be obliged. This is what I have so far;

 

The Spaghetti westerns (1966) - Sad Hill Cemetery for choice

 

The Flight of the Phoenix (1965) - abandoned cannibalized plane

 

Ice Cold in Alex (1958) - (not sure where to find an old ambulance in the game though)

 

The Grapes of Wrath (1940)

 

Easy Rider (1969) - crash site - not actually dessert but close enough

 

John Carter of Mars (2012) - Tharks Hatchery

 

No Country For Old Men (2007) - shall have to watch it again for ideas.

 

And so on, as I said I like this idea and would like some suggestions. I'm trying to work only with vanilla game elements - so unfortunately that's no giant sandworms (Dune 1984) preferably achievable movie scenes - a burned out Tattooine moisture farm for example (personally not impressed with wild wasteland reference)

 

Food for thought, answers on back of postcard etc.etc.

Edited June 23, 2014 by SayinNuthin