Healthcare

[Maxwell the Fool]

This is about the current healthcare reforms being pushed in America.

 

Whether or nor your for the bill(s) or measures is irrelevant to this conversation. The House has decided to make an attempt at "deeming" it passed. That's without a vote. Why do you think they are doing this? Is it the right thing to do? Is it precedented?

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

http:// http://www.scpr.org/news/2010/03/16/democrats-weigh-obscure-tactic-to-pass-health-care/

[Trandoshan]

Could you edit a link to an article that explains this. The last thing I remember being congress-related is that 'reconciliation' vote.

 

 

 

I thought so. Stupid Democrats. Don't you realize that we need to raise taxes, and cut spending? The Nat. Debt goes up, and Inflation is going to skyrocket...

 

This bill needs to die, and for good reason.

 

You know what I truly think? Obama is just trying to rack up some big event to make his presidency less-worthless than it currently is. Cheapskate @#$$#% tactics...

[Maxwell the Fool]

Link added.

[myrmaad]

I'm sorry but even though I'm not thrilled with the bill in its current form, the profit driven model we have in place is unsustainable.

 

You might recall, if you're old enough, the HMOs of the 90s? We were enrolled in one of the better ones, There was a backlash against cost containment, (mainly because of the way cost containment was mismanaged) so instead of containing costs the system changed to simply pass the cost to the consumer, which resulted in health care costs inflating astronomically while income levels remained flat. That's where we are now.

 

There are things in this bill that will help.

 

The very fact that the big health conglomerates and their congressional minions are fighting so hard against it gives me reason to breathe easy.

 

Let's take a moment to pause and think about that..

 

There is a partisan accusation currently that tries to imply that the deal making that goes on is tantamount to bribery. This is ridiculous.

The House, for example has 435 REPRESENTATIVES.

They are elected by districts to REPRESENT that district's interests in the decision making process.

Those Representatives come home empty handed, and what will they get? Defeated in the next election, that's what.

So every piece of pie (house controls the money so it's easiest to consider it a pie to divide up) -- has to be divided in a way that makes the person agreeing feel s/he has "won something" while compromising on other things (since it is a majority rule situation and each district also contributes to the cost of the pie by way of federal taxes) for their district back home. Got it? That's simply logical.

 

So for example in the senate, these people have the gall to accuse Mary Landrieu of, what -- I'm not even sure. Fighting to represent her district? Since Katrina devastated her home state and the federal government (must I point out which side was in charge, I think not necessary..) botched the job of protecting and rescuing her constituents, and the job still remains unfinished, she held out for a little pile of assets she could use to right that wrong. That's how I see it, and I have little regard for other opinions from people who I believe should have the mental fortitude to be able to think this through logically, but can't seem to be able to put aside their agendas and biases long enough to do so. On this point, there's really little to argue over.

 

In the same manner, the southern representatives in lockstep have everything to gain and much to lose depending on the outcome. Most of BIG CORPORATE HEALTHCARE CONGLOMERATE are based in the south, (Nashville, with satellite offices all over the bible belt) bringing jobs and money into the local economies of Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Texas. If you can't concede this is the other side of the exact same coin, you may have bumped your head.

 

 

As to the question, I don't appreciate it, as it's designed to be partisan, and it's irrelevant. I've been watching congress for a very long time, and I've seen it all from both sides. Getting your panties in a twist over "how" it passes will never matter, will never contribute and will never stop the "other side" from pulling a similar stunt the last time (like in 2003) or the next time whenever that is.

 

That's what knowing history does for me. Did you know there have been fist fights on the floor of the senate?

Edited March 17, 2010 by myrmaad

[Kendo 2]

I predict the bill will be pushed through, regardless of content. Obama got upset when both democratic and repubilcan representatives wanted to READ IT before voting. Rom Emanuel bird-dogged a few dem representatives and used mafia-style leverage and intimidation. Pelosi keeps coming back with '72 hour reviews'. Does anyone think once Pelosi has the votes there will be another 72 hour review, or will she call for a vote then and there?

 

This is my opinion. Our elected politicians in D.C. have dismissed 'We The People' as inconsequential in the big picture. They are paying as less attention to us than what we pay to our young children when they demand piece candy at the grocery checkout.

 

We The People: "But I want reasonable heath care."

Politicians: "No."

WeThe People: "But why?"

Politicians: "Because I SAID SO."

 

THAT is how we are being treated.

 

And by they way, the ones making this decision for us will not be subjected to what comes afterward. They have their own plan removed from the system they want to change and THEY have EXCELLENT health care. Only We The People will have to deal with Obama's 'new way'.

 

EDIT: HOLY CRAP!!! Now there is a motion before the U.S. Senate for a demon pass to push the healthcare reform bill without voting on it. Also there is a hidden rider in the bill that removes school lending from banks and hands it over the Feds. When you would go to to the bank to get a college loan the banks would redirect you to the federal government. What does that have to do with health care and what is else is hidden? No WONDER Obama doesn't want people to know the gist of the bill. :verymad:

[myrmaad]

 

EDIT: HOLY CRAP!!! Now there is a motion before the U.S. Senate for a demon pass to push the healthcare reform bill without voting on it. Also there is a hidden rider in the bill that removes school lending from banks and hands it over the Feds. When you would go to to the bank to get a college loan the banks would redirect you to the federal government. What does that have to do with health care and what is else is hidden? No WONDER Obama doesn't want people to know the gist of the bill. :verymad:

 

I'm pretty sure this was definitively out of the legislation as of last week.

[Kendo 2]

:mellow: Why was it there in the first place? That was the point I failed to make. And what else is being added and what side deals are being made by both sides of the isle? I guess it's typical D.C smoke and mirrors and why things need to REALLY change.

[myrmaad]

Most likely it was there as a deal sweetener for democrats, to encourage them to vote on this bill, which is obviously difficult or it would have passed back when it was Hilary and Bill's hot potato.

 

I could have sworn we just went over how deals work (and have worked since they wrangled over the Declaration of Independence before we even had a senate, a floor, a congress, or a constitution) :tongue: .

 

C'mon, this is your first time? We discussed politics at my family dinner table, I remember campaigning for Nixon/Agnew with my parents.

[Kendo 2]

C'mon, this is your first time?

:woot: Like I don't know, chica...

playing the devils' advocate, myrmaad. :thumbsup:

 

Stupak was balking, though he'll probably flip due to Waxman's and Hoyer's pressure. Too bad, since Stupak acts like he has a conscience. Welcome to The U.S. Waffle House of Representatives. And there is already a push by DEMOCRATS to place the bill in front of the Supreme Court and question its constitutionality...IF it demon passes.

 

*Demon Pass = Deem and Pass. Also known as self-executing rule. One legislative body reviews a bill, changes the verbage and sends the amended version to the other legislative body, but sends the orignal unamended version to the President for ratification. BOTH parties use it and it is WRONG.

[Maxwell the Fool]

Okay......

 

Sorry for the apparent partisan tint to my question. I know it's done by both sides, and not all democrats are slimy, not all republicans are slimy, and none of them are saints. Also, it just happened to be them this time..... And they all do it. It's just one issue that I wanted to throw out there, because (apparently) people weren't aware of this.

 

I guess it's just the destruction of the constitution. I really am open if anyone can show me some sort of precedent or real justification on passing it this way.

 

If they were to vote and pass it, then I'd be angry at my congressman (if he voted for it), not "Those damned democrats," and not "Those evil socialists," because, apparently, it was the will of the people.

 

So far as the deals: I understand the purpose to them, and know that it's not the fault of the individual politicians for the pork, it's the fault of the entire system, but it is the best we have here, and we've all gotta accept that; We're to close to failing to try and do the noble thing, we've gotta do what gets us through for now.

 

While I personally am not happy with the bill and would not want it passed I am not against this type of healthcare reform. I like the idea of having a completely open market place where we can look around and say, "This is who I am, and this is what I need. Beg for my business." We should not be the slaves of these companies, they should be slaves to us.

 

Oh, and hey Myrmaad...... I recently joined the alliance, figured saying hi here is the same as saying hi there. Nice to see a familiar face.... I mean name.