Healthcare

[Aurielius]

So in other words, my commitment on the battle field means nothing to you. Had I died, my life would have meant nothing to you. If you don't think you should pay for my healthcare, I don't think soldiers should defend this country on your behalf. Dog eat dog world right?

 

Having put in 25yrs myself I don't remember that military service was an quid pro quo contract. We were not in the Peace Corps, possibly being operational was part of the deal. The nation owes us respect, gratitude and a resumption of civilian life, but not a free ride. You are entitled to your opinion, it's been paid for and more....good that you made it home.

My wife and I run small S Corp and we must cover ourselves and a handful of employees, mandated Obama health care will probably mean that it will be more economical for us to close up shop and liquidate the assets. That will fine for us but will really hurt our employees, they would rather have a job. From what I've seen first hand of the NHS in Britain and social health care in Canada I'm not impressed.

[Kendo 2]

...the ASVAB.

Scored 87 AFQT (I remember because recruiters kept calling the house asking for me.) But only two things interested me at the time, lead sled muscle cars and a black Irish girl named Rhonda. I probably ditched lunch the day I tested to shoot pool and drink beer anyway.

 

EDIT: and I think you only need like a 30 to hump gear and pull triggers. ;)

[species5478]

So in other words, my commitment on the battle field means nothing to you. Had I died, my life would have meant nothing to you. If you don't think you should pay for my health care, I don't think soldiers should defend this country on your behalf. Dog eat dog world right?

 

Having put in 25yrs myself I don't remember that military service was an quid pro quo contract. We were not in the Peace Corps, possibly being operational was part of the deal. The nation owes us respect, gratitude and a resumption of civilian life, but not a free ride. You are entitled to your opinion, it's been paid for and more....good that you made it home.

My wife and I run small S Corp and we must cover ourselves and a handful of employees, mandated Obama health care will probably mean that it will be more economical for us to close up shop and liquidate the assets. That will fine for us but will really hurt our employees, they would rather have a job. From what I've seen first hand of the NHS in Britain and social health care in Canada I'm not impressed.

 

You're service is commendable. I only put in a fraction of that time.

 

I help my mother run one of our daycares. Because of our expenses, we can't afford the private health care that some of our staff enjoys. All of our employees will be able to afford health care if this bill passes as intended. Yet, I'm not a blind servant by any means. I don't, for instance, believe it's right to force us pay for health care. But I also like being forced to pay for car insurance, either. But if I have to insure something, why not my own body?

 

But I think it's way too early to judge something that still being drafted, as we speak. So in all honesty, although I'm an advocate for health care, I'm not at all impressed with all of the inclusions in this current package.

 

And I don't advocate that we should copy the policies of other countries. America has made a reputation of evolving the norm to a higher standard. I will not accept that this, or any other obstacle placed in our path cannot be overcome.

[Maxwell the Fool]

Actually it's something that is being voted on in about 12 hours. After that it'll be edited, and then we'll see more legislation. Nancy Pelosi used a euphemism about kicking down a door, and said this is just what the republicans would let them pass, and once it goes they will steadily move more and more towards single payer.......

 

Single payer will wreck us, if the current bill doesn't.

[Kendo 2]

My family has cattle as a side line deduct. Or we did. Obama's 'methane tax' has killed beef on hoof prices where I live. #2 beef steers use to go for 35 cents on the pound. Now we're lucky to get 15. Stack feed, hay prices and vet bills on top of that AND Obama's tax and we're in the hole. We're being driven out of business. That means the hired hands, the sale barns, the service stations that sell diesel, the feed stores and everyone down the line and their employees are being strangled. And NOW there's going to be MORE taxes for healthcare.

 

Where in the hell do people think beef comes from? It magically appears in grocery coolers, placed there by elves? WTF? Obama's taxes have promised American consumers higher beef prices and once the big agricorps control it the price will skyrocket. Obama is an economic hack and doesn't have a freak'n clue.

 

Sorry, but if your lives were affected like mine has been over the past year due to uninformed policies you'd be mad too.

 

@species5478

The err' of my ways has been pointed out by someone whose opinion I trust and I sincerely apologize for handling you rough.

[species5478]

My family has cattle as a side line deduct. Or we did. Obama's 'methane tax' has killed beef on hoof prices where I live. #2 beef steers use to go for 35 cents on the pound. Now we're lucky to get 15. Stack feed, hay prices and vet bills on top of that AND Obama's tax and we're in the hole. We're being driven out of business. That means the hired hands, the sale barns, the service stations that sell diesel, the feed stores and everyone down the line and their employees are being strangled. And NOW there's going to be MORE taxes for healthcare.

 

Where in the hell do people think beef comes from? It magically appears in grocery coolers, placed there by elves? WTF? Obama's taxes have promised American consumers higher beef prices and once the big agricorps control it the price will skyrocket. Obama is an economic hack and doesn't have a freak'n clue.

 

Sorry, but if your lives were affected like mine has been over the past year due to uninformed policies you'd be mad too.

 

@species5478

The err' of my ways has been pointed out by someone whose opinion I trust and I sincerely apologize for handling you rough.

 

No problem. I don't mind a good debate. And I never join a debate that I'm not willing to change my opinion about because to me, that defeats the purpose. It should be an open discussion that provides the opportunity for one to be proven wrong. That said, I haven't heard an opposing view that's convincing enough to change my mind.

 

And I wasn't in the infiltry during my enlistment. Unable to. The instances of near death that I'm implying, occurred when I was traveling from one base of operations to another. An I.E.D. and a random attack is how I nearly met my end. Many female soldiers have been killed this way. As far as I know, over one hundred women, including seven single mothers, have died in this war. Do we not take care of their children because they can't pay for their own health care?

 

My business struggles as well however, most of my particular problems arose from issues stemming from the prior presidency. And I think it should be noted that I'm neither Republican, nor a Democrat. I'm an Independent.

[ginnyfizz]

Sure we pay a high tax, however when we got our paycheck, we don´t have to pay a rather expensive insurance too.

A friend of mine (Danish) lived all his live in UK, until he got cancer, and got treated at UK hospitals, until the doctors gave up,

then the insurance would not pay any more. Message: "you`r dying" "we don´t pay"

So he had to go home to good old DK and die. Her you can still die for free. :thumbsup:

 

Sorry, but I think that may not be entirely accurate. It would be because there was no further treatment available that would work for him, without causing him unnecessary suffering, that the NHS stopped treating him. I suspect that there was, sadly, simply nowhere for your friend to spend his last days in a hospice due to just no spaces, and this happens to British folk too, and the fact was his family were in Denmark. It was therefore more humane to suggest he go back to Denmark to die, rather than die here alone. Although, it IS just possible that your poor friend fell victim to the "postcode lottery" (see below) and I qualify my previous sentence by that.

 

Now following is how the NHS is funded, and why it is not working, and this is on topic because it illustrates why Americans need to see the Obama Bill isn't passed. Basically most people have both Income Tax and National Insurance Contributions deducted from their salary by the employer, and paid to the Government. Employer pays NI contributions for each employee too. Both tax and NI go somewhat towards paying for. inter alia, the NHS. The fact that medicine advances constantly is both a blessing and a curse. Blessing, because there are new treatments and procedures constantly available, people simply do not die from pulmonary tuberculosis in droves like they did, for example, thanks to both NHS vaccination programmes and improved veterinary programmes. There is a new breakthrough most every day, and we thank the brilliant scientists and medics who make them! BUT as the science grows, so does the cost. And, of course, people live longer, so there is more demand on care for the elderly than ever before.

 

So, the net result is that now so called free health care can often depend on where you live and who you are...just like in the USA's current system. For example, a particular drug for cancer, or dementia, may be allowed in one area, but may be considered too expensive in another UNLESS YOU PAY PRIVATELY FOR IT. My Mum has dementia, now because we live where we do, the NHS will pay for the top of the range drug, Reminyl. If we lived three miles down the road, in a different health authority area, we would have to pay because that HA has run out of funding. So, as I say, Balagor, this MAY also be what happened to your friend.

 

THIS is why Obama is so wrong to push his reforms through by devious means, because he is going to make the USA end up just like we are. Universal state funded healthcare is not long term sustainable, and his approach is not the answer.

[bben46]

Please keep it civil. Or I will be forced to shut it down. Keep on topic - Health Care reform in the US. Other politics should be left out. Refrain from ad homonym attacks (look it up). That includes not calling names or expressing negative personal opinions of others.

 

This will be the only warning. If I have to come back here it will be with a hammer.

Bben46, Moderator

[Balagor]

Sure we pay a high tax, however when we got our paycheck, we don´t have to pay a rather expensive insurance too.

A friend of mine (Danish) lived all his live in UK, until he got cancer, and got treated at UK hospitals, until the doctors gave up,

then the insurance would not pay any more. Message: "you`r dying" "we don´t pay"

So he had to go home to good old DK and die. Her you can still die for free. :thumbsup:

 

Sorry, but I think that may not be entirely accurate. It would be because there was no further treatment available that would work for him, without causing him unnecessary suffering, that the NHS stopped treating him. I suspect that there was, sadly, simply nowhere for your friend to spend his last days in a hospice due to just no spaces, and this happens to British folk too, and the fact was his family were in Denmark. It was therefore more humane to suggest he go back to Denmark to die, rather than die here alone. Although, it IS just possible that your poor friend fell victim to the "postcode lottery" (see below) and I qualify my previous sentence by that.

 

Now following is how the NHS is funded, and why it is not working, and this is on topic because it illustrates why Americans need to see the Obama Bill isn't passed. Basically most people have both Income Tax and National Insurance Contributions deducted from their salary by the employer, and paid to the Government. Employer pays NI contributions for each employee too. Both tax and NI go somewhat towards paying for. inter alia, the NHS. The fact that medicine advances constantly is both a blessing and a curse. Blessing, because there are new treatments and procedures constantly available, people simply do not die from pulmonary tuberculosis in droves like they did, for example, thanks to both NHS vaccination programmes and improved veterinary programmes. There is a new breakthrough most every day, and we thank the brilliant scientists and medics who make them! BUT as the science grows, so does the cost. And, of course, people live longer, so there is more demand on care for the elderly than ever before.

 

So, the net result is that now so called free health care can often depend on where you live and who you are...just like in the USA's current system. For example, a particular drug for cancer, or dementia, may be allowed in one area, but may be considered too expensive in another UNLESS YOU PAY PRIVATELY FOR IT. My Mum has dementia, now because we live where we do, the NHS will pay for the top of the range drug, Reminyl. If we lived three miles down the road, in a different health authority area, we would have to pay because that HA has run out of funding. So, as I say, Balagor, this MAY also be what happened to your friend.

 

THIS is why Obama is so wrong to push his reforms through by devious means, because he is going to make the USA end up just like we are. Universal state funded healthcare is not long term sustainable, and his approach is not the answer.

 

True, what you write here, but in DK it works in that way if you have to go somewhere else for treatment, the moneybag from YOUR region will follow you, even to UK if necassery, and it is unlimited.

I know that a lot of danish advicers have been visiting Obama´s administration during the past one years, so perhaps this is also in consideration,

[TodaY]

Meaning no offense here, but your new healthcare system is going to be a good thing. Look at Holland (I live there). We have had that system for a lot of time now, and do we have bills to pay? Have our taxes raised? No. Do people get healthcare they need but can't pay for? Yes. I dont understand a lot of this, but I do know that eventhough America is great, Holland's healthcare system is better, and you're soon going to have one like it. Shouldn't you be happy about that?