Guest deleted2159825 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 With NVBIII in the late stages of production, I've been working on an outline for my next significant quest mod, Sinners and Slaves. In a nutshell, it's The Dirty Dozen meets Spartacus (Kubrick version, not that recent drivel). There are two separate questlines in the design doc (one NCR, one Legion), but right now I'm focusing on the NCR perspective. My chief concern is lore-plausibility in staging a slave revolt in the heart of Arizona. When the Courier arrives, it's little more than a band, but would soon expand into a full-fledged army with a... tragic end (inspired by the Third Servile War). However, I merely want to capture the essence of certain historical figures and events and make it workable in the scope of Fallout. This revolt will not change the fortunes of Caesar's Legion in the end - it might even strengthen them, in fact. Additionally, I'm concerned with how to depict civilians and non-military settlements within Arizona. JE Sawyer's discussed this on Formspring and Somethingawful, but I want to get it right and avoid any egregious missteps. I see them as functional, secure communities with food and running water, possibly overseen by a handful of Legion troops and/or administrators. There would be a greater military presence in towns like Kingman, and certainly in and around Flagstaff, it being the capital. Finally, the question of how a revolt could start looms large. My current treatment suggests that two recently-captured tribes were driven to the center of Arizona by an incompetent, mid-level commander (Caesar and Lanius can't be everywhere), and were rushed into service without proper assimilation. Specifically, the commander thought it would be sporting to pit the two tribes against each other in the arena (in small groups), with the survivors being "rewarded" with military service. At some point, the tribes rise up and overwhelm the troops supervising them, then head to the wilderness of Humphreys Peak. This is where the Courier finds them. Maybe the basic premise is just too far beyond the pale - if that is the case, please tell me. Nitpick, suggest, and/or dissuade as you feel. Thanks for any forthcoming feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayinNuthin Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Without being up to speed on JE Sawyer's stuff here's an idea. The (original) Romans were quite comfortable with hostage taking to ensure the good behaviour of people who might otherwise cause problems and as Ranger Rick point's out the Legion are aware of this. But the Romans did it on a huge scale holding entire tribes down, taking the leaders children to be 'educated' in Rome etc. It'd be a pity if something 'happened' to the hostages wouldn't it. If your tribe's fighting age men were kept in check because their women and children were elsewhere until... disease, famine, raiders whatever and whoops no leverage. Or worse! 'you thought they were pissed before you allowed their kin to perish through negligence or some Boudicca style miscalculation'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McclaudEagle Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I think it's an entirely feasible and good idea, someguy2000. The Legion is currently locked in a war with the NCR, which means much of its attention is going to be drawn to that conflict. As a result, their ability to deal with a sudden revolt in their own territory is going to be weaker, initially anyway. However, do remember that this is in the middle of Arizona; the Legion's home. I wouldn't be surprised if the modern Caesar followed his "predecessor" in allowing armed troops into the homeland; meaning there will probably be at least one or two large armies waiting to deal with it. In terms of settlements. The real Roman towns were mostly defended and policed by simple guards, not regular soldiers armed to the teeth. In theory, I'd imagine the same could hold true for settlements in Arizona. They may be lightly guarded by lesser equipped guards, but there may be an army fort in the area garrisoned by regular soldiers. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deleted2159825 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Terrific, thank you for the cogent feedback and suggestions. Keep it coming! I think we all know how it has to end, but getting there should be interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if the modern Caesar followed his "predecessor" in allowing armed troops into the homeland; meaning there will probably be at least one or two large armies waiting to deal with it.I am absolutely of the same mind on this - the "revolt" is just a handful of escaped tribals in the beginning. Once they achieve some battlefield success, slaves and discontented "subjects" of the Legion would emerge from all over to join up. As with the historic conflict, I could easily see Legion personnel underestimating lowly slaves and the dissolute who've joined them (I'll have to refresh my knowledge on the strange titles in Caesar's societal hierarchy). There is little to gain and everything to lose by fighting such an army. In terms of settlements. The real Roman towns were mostly defended and policed by simple guards, not regular soldiers armed to the teeth. In theory, I'd imagine the same could hold true for settlements in Arizona. They may be lightly guarded by lesser equipped guards, but there may be an army fort in the area garrisoned by regular soldiers.I would treat them almost like an occupying force, not unlike the Normans in the years following their conquest, with hill forts and the like, imposing their will on the subject populace. As much as I'd like to mimic historic Roman society, everything from Sawyer reiterates that the Legion is no more than a standing army, with scant societal structure aside from the needs for fighting and reproduction. Edited July 16, 2014 by someguy2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deleted2159825 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Without being up to speed on JE Sawyer's stuff here's an idea. The (original) Romans were quite comfortable with hostage taking to ensure the good behaviour of people who might otherwise cause problems and as Ranger Rick point's out the Legion are aware of this. But the Romans did it on a huge scale holding entire tribes down, taking the leaders children to be 'educated' in Rome etc. It'd be a pity if something 'happened' to the hostages wouldn't it. If your tribe's fighting age men were kept in check because their women and children were elsewhere until... disease, famine, raiders whatever and whoops no leverage. Or worse! 'you thought they were pissed before you allowed their kin to perish through negligence or some Boudicca style miscalculation'...I will have to drop a Boudicca reference in there... :smile: I like the captive idea, too - like you mentioned, it doesn't even have to be some malign scheme, just arbitrary misfortune like disease (compounded by the Legion's Primitivist outlook). Good stuff, thanks! Edited July 16, 2014 by someguy2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayinNuthin Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Without being up to speed on JE Sawyer's stuff here's an idea. The (original) Romans were quite comfortable with hostage taking to ensure the good behaviour of people who might otherwise cause problems and as Ranger Rick point's out the Legion are aware of this. But the Romans did it on a huge scale holding entire tribes down, taking the leaders children to be 'educated' in Rome etc. It'd be a pity if something 'happened' to the hostages wouldn't it. If your tribe's fighting age men were kept in check because their women and children were elsewhere until... disease, famine, raiders whatever and whoops no leverage. Or worse! 'you thought they were pissed before you allowed their kin to perish through negligence or some Boudicca style miscalculation'...I will have to drop a Boudicca reference in there... :smile: I like the captive idea, too - like you mentioned, it doesn't even have to be some malign scheme, just arbitrary misfortune like disease (compounded by the Legion's Primitivist outlook). Good stuff, thanks! A lot of 'primitive' peoples believe there is no such thing as accidents, if there is no apparent explanation then it's put down to witchcraft or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangman4ever Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 More than likely, you're looking at a Centurion who's causing the revolt. Gaius Magnus was a centurion in-game who was rewarded for his part in conquering the 87th tribe. So I'd imagine that another Centurion would be involved in conquering another tribe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayinNuthin Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 If you were up for some serious and yet hugely entertaining research, Bill Fawcett's 'You Did What?; Mad plans and great historical disasters' series of books are well worth a look. His titles include; 'It Seemed Like A Good Idea', 'How To Loose A Battle', 'How To Loose A War' and '100 Mistakes That Changed The World'. You know that thing when people say "You couldn't make it up"? You couldn't, really... One of my favourite examples; Battle of Karánsebes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetenrisiel Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 If you are going with the "Legion lost it's leverage" angle, an interesting twist could be that the party responsible for starting the uprising could turn out to be the same party that was responsible for the deaths of the women and children, either by violence or accident. When they saw how such a tragedy gave people the strength to cast off the oppressors, they either decided to blame it on the legion or continued the practice to keep recruiting. You can take that in several directions and the moral area can be a light or dark shade of gray, just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangman4ever Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Also, have you tried looking at the Van Buren related content? That's where Caesar's Legion first showed up and items, concepts, storylines, etc from Van Buren might help you with this mod. These two are a good example:http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Terrencehttp://fallout.gamepedia.com/Manillus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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