Mod concept, more PC dialogue (dialog) options

[Zoney]

I realise that posting a mod idea as a first post is perhaps a tad predictable, but I have an idea I can't get out of my head and would be interested in feedback before proceeding. My idea is to seemingly improve the dialogue / dialog options in Oblivion even if the underlying quests etc. are unaltered. I.e. we could call this "faking" smart dialogue.

 

Basis for the idea and assumptions:

* PC dialog is just text, so even just changing existing text could improve immersion (some of those "one word" questions and such - give the player a personality even if the same for everyone).

* PC could have multiple dialogue options even if the NPC response is the same for all (don't you feel like making a "smartalec" response sometimes?)

* NPC dialog relies on very few voice actors. Existing NPC responses could be augmented in places to reflect PC "attitude" responses by simply sticking one of the generic "retorts" in before the NPC continues with their normal response.

* Even if you consider NPC dialogue lines as a fixed limited set, they can surely be combined with all kinds of PC text? I.e. a pre-determined line could arise from all kinds of PC lines.

 

Questions:

* Is there a complete log of all pre-recorded dialogue? (One would need a printed list to properly plan new PC responses or stick in "extra" out of place NPC lines)

* How complicated is it to modify PC text and would it be a very "pervasive" mod that would affect so much in Oblivion as to make combination with other mods difficult?

 

Initial steps:

1) Pick a self-contained trial area like the initial tutorial (maybe a poor choice due to Emporer's limited dialogue?)

2) Amend the PC text to be more "interesting".

3) Add multiple PC responses (same NPC response though).

4) Adjust NPC response for some of the "attitude" PC dialog (use the general retorts to show displeasure/pleasure at PC line of questioning/response) - adding in just one extra NPC line before NPC continues with ordinary response.

 

Further steps:

1) Expand to other quest lines/towns/NPCs/etc.

2) Have some PC lines affect NPC disposition?

3) Allow PC to respond to NPC "Rumour" dialogue option with a predetermined response like the AI uses (yes, allow the PC to have one of those inane pretend non-conversations).

4) Consider modifying quests to at least "pretend" branch/join? Or simply end (e.g. really outrageous PC line just gets certain NPCs to attack you ending the quest)

 

Anyway - in general it seems like there would be scope to make Oblivion dialogue a lot more entertaining and interesting even if you were not actually making the player conversation have real effects (breaking quests etc.)

 

What do people think of this idea? A specific question would be if there is somewhere I could see the text version of all the NPC dialogue, linked to the sound file ID? Presumably the subtitles could be used? It would be handiest to browse by voice actor/race though.

 

Another "further step" question - can you get Oblivion to play back part of a sound file? i.e. so you could play back sentences or even words out of conjoined NPC dialogue lines?

 

Finally, I apologise in advance for any green aspects of my post/idea! I have used a lot of mods and searched through and not found something like this and I did a search for "dialogue" on the forums here without seeing a relevant discussion. My previous mod experience is limited to texture recolouring!

[JCP768]

Similar concepts:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6488

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12828

 

There was also a WIP a while back that was doing this, but I don't know if anything ever came of it

 

Personally I hate the "Bioware system" where you get 5 options and the response is always the same, because it always comes off weird like:

 

"I had no choice they repress, and control us because they fear our power..."

option 1: I understand I feel the same way

option 2: stop your whining and admit that you're wrong!

option 3:But why did you have to resort to <insert morally dubious method here>

Option 4: I don't agree with what you did but I forgive you.

Option 5: You all do deserve what they do to because blahblahblah.

Response for all 5: "I resorted to <morally dubious method> because..."

So if a chose anything except for 3 I'm sitting there for a second saying ... "Whaaaaa? I didn't ask you to tell me about that..."

It feels like slight to the player when they don't chose the option that fits the response perfectly.

[worm82075]

Similar concepts:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6488

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12828

 

There was also a WIP a while back that was doing this, but I don't know if anything ever came of it

 

Personally I hate the "Bioware system" where you get 5 options and the response is always the same, because it always comes off weird like:

 

"I had no choice they repress, and control us because they fear our power..."

option 1: I understand I feel the same way

option 2: stop your whining and admit that you're wrong!

option 3:But why did you have to resort to <insert morally dubious method here>

Option 4: I don't agree with what you did but I forgive you.

Option 5: You all do deserve what they do to because blahblahblah.

Response for all 5: "I resorted to <morally dubious method> because..."

So if a chose anything except for 3 I'm sitting there for a second saying ... "Whaaaaa? I didn't ask you to tell me about that..."

It feels like slight to the player when they don't chose the option that fits the response perfectly.

 

I know where you are coming from but if you are referring to KOTOR then regardless of NPC response the purpose of the choices is to determine whether you gain lightside points, darkside points or none at all(neutral). However in other games it doesn't make much sense.

[Zoney]

Similar concepts:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6488

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12828

 

There was also a WIP a while back that was doing this, but I don't know if anything ever came of it

 

Personally I hate the "Bioware system" where you get 5 options and the response is always the same, because it always comes off weird like:

 

"I had no choice they repress, and control us because they fear our power..."

option 1: I understand I feel the same way

option 2: stop your whining and admit that you're wrong!

option 3:But why did you have to resort to <insert morally dubious method here>

Option 4: I don't agree with what you did but I forgive you.

Option 5: You all do deserve what they do to because blahblahblah.

Response for all 5: "I resorted to <morally dubious method> because..."

So if a chose anything except for 3 I'm sitting there for a second saying ... "Whaaaaa? I didn't ask you to tell me about that..."

It feels like slight to the player when they don't chose the option that fits the response perfectly.

 

Thanks for the links. I am thinking more of modifying things on a very superficial level but in a way that makes dialogue more interesting.

 

I think the example you give is not entirely what I have in mind as regards adding choices. I'm thinking more of adding one or two options to PC that are in fact the same comment but phrased a bit differently or at least evoking ultimately the same NPC line of dialogue, but perhaps meriting a retort first if PC is rude or funny (can use the dialogue lines from the minigame for this for example).

 

Also I am thinking of the PC conversation topics. For example I am looking here at dialogue for PC with Baurus. Real PC dialogue is mixed with "topic names" - for example real dialogue options like,

"I must take it to Jauffre"

"There is another heir"

follow "topics" in the same dialogue menu format:

"The Blades"

"Amulet of Kings"

 

I'd prefer to modify the latter to be:

"Who are the Blades?"

"What is this Amulet of Kings?"

 

As well as even just amend PC lines to not just solely be functional. "I must take it to Jauffre" tells Baurus what he needs to know, but it's very basic. Even just "The Emporer told me to take the Amulet to someone called Jauffre" would surely be an improvement? EDIT: OK, I forgot there is a character limit on this... still, you could have <He said to take it to "Jauffre"> rather than make the PC certain of his actions and aware of who Jauffre is.

[Zoney]

Proof of concept:

http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=31069

 

Some modified player topics for Baurus and Emperor in the start area. Perhaps gives an idea of my thoughts for an initial simple step to the mod? Next would be to do this for the rest of the dialog in the main quest, then the other main quest lines, then progress to the lesser dialogue.

 

After that look at more complicated ideas like additional dialogue options and modified/extra NPC responses.

 

Is it a worthwhile concept?

[Zoney]

Well, I haven't had much feedback yet, but I thought I'd give an update on my research/testing so far.

 

I've discovered that even to rename the one word topics, I need to create my own custom topics duplicating the original infos (could move them, but that is more "unclean"). This is because the one word topics are reused at different parts of the main quest and in different contexts (e.g. "Jauffre" is a topic to ask Baurus more about who Jauffre is, but at Weynon Priory is used to ask *where* Jauffre is).

 

I want to keep the game fully voiced. Unfortunately as no doubt many of you know already, the file location for voice files is tied to specific locations dependent on the info ID and the mod name. So copies of original infos won't use the original voice files automatically and the only work-around is to place a *duplicate* at the mod-specific location. Although this didn't stop me attempting two unconventional ways to try and get existing topics said without their text being seen (using SayTo and StartConversation in results script). Both approaches had drawbacks.

 

I've decided not to worry about having to include copies of the original voice files in order for the mod to be fully voiced. Instead, in the absence of a command-line utility to extract specific files from BSA archive (rather than all), I'll distribute my own archive with a single copy of each file I need. I will include a batch script in the distribution that will call BSA commander at the command line to extract my archive to a temporary directory, then the script will create the necessary duplications* of voice files using xcopy, and finally will call BSA commander again to pack the more numerous files into a new archive. This should minimise the download size for voice files used. An alternative would be not to distribute any voice files and insist the downloader has over 4GB space free - then my script would unpack the original BSAs to a temp folder, delete all files not reused by my mod, move/rename/duplicate files used by my mod, and pack them into a mod BSA.

 

On the plus side, going this route allows full versatility on new topic text, new topics and even new responses (old voice lines reused/combined in new context).

 

I now envisage a system whereby the NPC delivers the original info but via more customised topics (player dismissive, scared, angry, etc.) and the NPC response would also be modified by using quotes from elsewhere out of context. I don't see myself modifying existing quests wildly just yet, but I want player choices to have some effect. So I am thinking of doing the following - certain responses affect NPC disposition (make this not surprising - if you choose the nasty option, NPC disp. drops, nice option NPC disp ups) - this may make the silly speechcraft tool less necessary. Would have to affect player speechcraft skill too. Also, based on past choices, the specific wording of future choices would automatically be based on character's rudeness, inquisitiveness, nervousness, etc. (i.e. very similar topics with this as the condition).

 

Of course perhaps even if the above script options are used, the quantity of duplicated voice files might make this approach prohibitive in terms of bloating disk space used for Oblivion? Maybe this isn't too much of an issue for fans and today in 2010? (I'm guessing that just doing the main quest like this would be maybe 3x original voice space used - so probably still a fraction of the overall voice space for the game - we're talking at most a GB or two, or for a more extensive mod of the entire game, probably still low single figure GBs).

 

I plan to continue a test version of the initial charactergen quest. NPC "attitude" will be stored in variables in a custom quest (plan not to include script in this - just use topic result scripts). Again, attitude will be automatically decided by actual player choices, and won't remove future choices but instead will modify how they are delivered (using near-identical topics with conditions on them).

 

Feedback would be appreciated!

[nivea]

I had a look at your test mod, I must say it is a big improvement. As a Bioware user for many years I have come to sort of expect more topic lines then just "Amulet of Kings", there is just no personality no feel to it at all. Its like a dumbed down version of a game. I dont care if they all end up at the same npc line, its just nice to read somthing somtimes.

I hate when my evil DB character is talking to quest people the same way my knightly lady would its all the same, its just boring.

In games like Baldur's gate sure you had alot of RP choices, but again the game had a set path like all games and the major quests always came to about the same end.

So I say add away, if it all circles the same NPC line in the end I dont care... more personality is worth it.