Join Empire or Stormcloaks? My Thoughts

[GetTheJojDone]

 

 

Get the civil war overhaul mod it's the only way to play http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/37216/?

The only way to break your save game you mean.

Mods of any sort should also be generally inadmissible in discussions like this. Deactivated quests and events are deactivated for a reason, and can't be taken as evidence of anything.

 

The Civil War Overhaul (which I have found to be horribly unstable...) Is no more relavent than that Bathouse mod outside Whiterun.

 

 

Yeah, I tried the Civil War Overhaul. Needless to say, I was unimpressed by the magic-wielding, animal-whisperer Stormcloaks. I never used it again.

[GetTheJojDone]

Actually, if you patch the game, any city taken over by the Empire instantly jails all open Talos worshipers. Look at the Bugs section.

 

Which bugs section?

[kradus]

It's true, Heimskr goes to jail. Thankfully.

[Valkasha]

No it's not, because Whiterun never gets taken over by the empire. They either stay independent or get taken over by the Stormcloaks.

[MidbossVyers]

Are you blind to the Legionnaire stationed in Whiterun after the battle? Or the fact that Heimskr is arrested? All signs that Whiterun is enforcing the Imperial Talos ban, as well as other Imperial laws.

[GetTheJojDone]

No it's not, because Whiterun never gets taken over by the empire. They either stay independent or get taken over by the Stormcloaks.

 

Uh...no. Have you even played the Imperial side of the Civil War? Because this seems to indicate that no, you haven't. As mentioned above, Legate Quentin Cipius takes up residence in Dragonsreach once the Stormcloaks attack Whiterun. Balgruuf explicitly sides with the Empire, he makes that clear in a speech if you successfully repel the Stormcloaks besieging Whiterun, you can even ask him afterwards "Why side with the Empire?" And let's not forget, whenever he's exiled, he goes to Solitude like the other exiled Imperial Jarls.

Edited September 27, 2014 by GetTheJojDone

[Valkasha]

Heimskr is not arrested unless you use a mod like the unofficial skyrim patch. Also Whiterun is still guarded by Whiteruns army, not by an imperial army, I doubt Balgruuf would allow Thalmor into the city, he doesn't let the Khajit or Redguards in either.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Valkasha

[GetTheJojDone]

Heimskr is not arrested unless you use a mod like the unofficial skyrim patch. Also Whiterun is still guarded by Whiteruns army, not by an imperial army, I doubt Balgruuf would allow Thalmor into the city, he doesn't let the Khajit or Redguards in either.

 

Whiterun doesn't have an army, it has a city guard. Just like every other city in Skyrim, Empire-affiliated or not. A city guard that mostly wields Imperial weapons, I might add. You also don't have to let the Thalmor into your city to support the Empire (not that the Jarls have much of a choice - look how it worked out for Hrolfdir). There aren't any Thalmor in Windhelm if the Empire wins the Civil War (and the Temple of Talos stays open, to boot), and the Argonians are still not allowed within the city limits (for their own protection). It doesn't make Jarl Brunwulf any less of an Imperial Jarl. The same applies to Balgruuf (by the way, he does let Redguards into Whiterun, look at Nazeem, Ahlam, Amren and his family, etc. just not the Alik'r, who are explicitly in Whiterun to hunt down someone living there, and no city in Skyrim allows the Khajiit caravans inside it's walls, ever).

Edited September 29, 2014 by GetTheJojDone

[Valkasha]

Still doesn't change the fact that Whiterun isn't being ruled by the imperials. Balgruuf still decides who gets arrested in whiterun hold. About the imperial weapon thing: Those are weapons forged by Adrianne, a Whiterun citizen, she is an imperial which is why her swords will be of imperial craft.

[GetTheJojDone]

Still doesn't change the fact that Whiterun isn't being ruled by the imperials. Balgruuf still decides who gets arrested in whiterun hold. About the imperial weapon thing: Those are weapons forged by Adrianne, a Whiterun citizen, she is an imperial which is why her swords will be of imperial craft.

 

I still don't know why you're arguing that Balgruuf remains fully independent if you side with the Empire, when really, the only proof you've got is nitpicking about guard uniforms, and arresting Talos worshippers (which is more or less the exclusive duty of the Thalmor; and both of which can be explained away by Bethesda just being lazy). Not to mention that UESP, the game itself and pretty much every other source flatly contradicts what you're saying. Even if we charitably ignore that, it still makes no sense from a gameplay perspective why Bethesda would give such preferential treatment to the Stormcloaks by denying Imperial players the ability to fully reunite Skyrim.

 

To be brief, ALL the Jarls are autonomous - that's how it works in Skyrim, Balgruuf is no different. Of course he has control over who he can arrest - so does every other Jarl. All the dialogue he has indicates that after Message to Whiterun, he's sided with the Empire, because if he didn't Ulfric would've conquered Whiterun, and now that he's made his choice, he's putting his money where his mouth is and sticking with them - if he's still Jarl in Season Unending he'll sit next to Elisif, Rikke and Tullius. Not only that, if you decide to give Markarth to the Stormcloaks, he'll say (among a hubbub of other people talking at the same time) "This is how the Empire rewards us for our loyalty?".

 

Aside from that, a Legate (one of 10 (11 counting the player) high-ranking officers who lead the Legion directly under General Tullius) moves into Dragonsreach, and the Legion garrisons Fort Greymoor. In other words, Balgruuf ends up with everything that any Imperial Jarl has.

Edited September 29, 2014 by GetTheJojDone