Lachdonin Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) . And knowledge literally handed down by word (Shout) of mouth can easily be distorted over numerous generations. [A copy of a copy of a copy..... of a copy kind of distortion.] That's not how Shouts work though. The language is synonymous with the idea. it doesn't change over time, because Fus IS Force, not just a word to describe it. It's like the Magic of True Names in many fantasy settings. No matter how many times it's told, no matter what culture it's represented in, the True Name is the same, and you either know it, or you don't. The Way of the Voice isn't something that can be distorted over time, because it is intrinsically linked to how the Thu'um functions, and how it is taught. Individuals don't have to obey it, but it's ideas and perspectives cannot be distorted, any more than Fus can be changed over a thousand generations of Tongues. The problem lies in the fact that the only ones who can teach the Thu'um, the Greybeards, are adherents of the Way of the Voice. They are incapable of misinterpreting Jurgan's intent or philosophy, even if they are capable of ignoring it should they choose. So, to spread the Thu'um to a new generation, you'd need at least one Greybeard to forsake the Way of the Voice. Considering not even the Dragonborn could get any but their weakest to speak to him... that's highly unlikely. Which brings us back around to the fact that... The Nords have nothing. Their two greatest assets in the founding of their First Empire (not to be confused with the Alessian Empire) were their Mages and their Tongues. And they ended up LOSING to numerous foes (the Dwemer, Ayleids, Drenni & Bretons, Dunmer) even with those advantages. Now they have neither. Edited January 4, 2016 by Lachdonin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Considering not even the Dragonborn could get any but their weakest to speak to him...What? Or rather who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPatch Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 The Way of the Voice isn't something that can be distorted over time, because it is intrinsically linked to how the Thu'um functions, and how it is taught. Individuals don't have to obey it, but it's ideas and perspectives cannot be distorted, any more than Fus can be changed over a thousand generations of Tongues. However, the Way of the Voice is NOT the Shouts themselves. It is the philosophy of when and where Shouts should be used. "It is okay to use a Shout for this, but not for that." According to Angier, probably THE human authority of just what the Way of the Voice is or isn't. "....[T]he only true use of the Voice is for the worship and glory of the gods." The words of Shouts may not be modified or altered, but the philosophy of how and when to use Shouts IS subject to change, generation after generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgir001 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) . And knowledge literally handed down by word (Shout) of mouth can easily be distorted over numerous generations. [A copy of a copy of a copy..... of a copy kind of distortion.] That's not how Shouts work though. The language is synonymous with the idea. it doesn't change over time, because Fus IS Force, not just a word to describe it. It's like the Magic of True Names in many fantasy settings. No matter how many times it's told, no matter what culture it's represented in, the True Name is the same, and you either know it, or you don't. The Way of the Voice isn't something that can be distorted over time, because it is intrinsically linked to how the Thu'um functions, and how it is taught. Individuals don't have to obey it, but it's ideas and perspectives cannot be distorted, any more than Fus can be changed over a thousand generations of Tongues. The problem lies in the fact that the only ones who can teach the Thu'um, the Greybeards, are adherents of the Way of the Voice. They are incapable of misinterpreting Jurgan's intent or philosophy, even if they are capable of ignoring it should they choose. So, to spread the Thu'um to a new generation, you'd need at least one Greybeard to forsake the Way of the Voice. Considering not even the Dragonborn could get any but their weakest to speak to him... that's highly unlikely. Which brings us back around to the fact that... The Nords have nothing. Their two greatest assets in the founding of their First Empire (not to be confused with the Alessian Empire) were their Mages and their Tongues. And they ended up LOSING to numerous foes (the Dwemer, Ayleids, Drenni & Bretons, Dunmer) even with those advantages. Now they have neither. "What twisted words have you created?" Edited January 5, 2016 by pgir001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) To be fair, killing people using only Words even in real life does not necessarily require any kind of esoteric training (even though it can help). There was a rumor that the first Emperor of China was not the legitimate son of the previous king. In other words, there were rumors that the queen had an affair with a merchant. The Emperor went down to the merchant's shop and using only Words, convinced the merchant to commit suicide, so such a rumor would not be confirmed. Also, Zhuge Liang can kill Wang Lang with only Words: Edited January 5, 2016 by MidbossVyers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthAxia Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 i alwayse went with the imperials, because realisticly speaking, if you have read the book on the great war with the dominion, those with prior experience in that, would know what steps need to be taken to counter the next great war, when it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I know that the Arcturian Heresy paints Talos in a more negative light, but I don't see how his betrayal of Wulfharth is a bad thing. Talos was willing to use diplomacy in his conquest, but Wulfharth the Ash-King wanted to exterminate elven-kind. That's why Talos and Wulfharth became enemies and why Talos eventually soul-trapped Wulfharth (also to power the Numidium). Stormcloak detractors often say how "terrible" Ulfric is to dark elves, but the literal worst thing that he does is neglect them. Basically, Wulfharth puts elves on his hit list. Ulfric does not put elves on any list. Therefore, Talos not following in Wulfharth's elven genocide should be to his reputation's benefit, not its detriment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthAxia Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 the last playthrough i did without going into too much, is replacing ulfric with the new jarl, the dark elves actually are pleased that they are taking steps to improve their living, though wether that happens or not is yet to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgir001 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) My 1st play-through, I was a Dark Elf. Took it for the Fire resist so I could be a Vampire assassin. This was before I had gotten DG even. Then I started paying a little more attention to Lore and trying to play adhering to that more so than previously. So Then I started rolling Nords almost exclusively. I went the whole 9 yards. No magic, joined the Stormcloaks. etc etc. But taking Whiterun actually bothered me. I was killing the very people I had recently fought with and was fully accepted as one of them. I also could find no fault with Balgruuf either. He was a good Jarl who's heart was in it for his city and his people. But fine, Skyrim's future needed Whiterun to change hands. But the part that really pissed me off and made me never again fight for the Stormcloaks, was Ulfric's arrogance in his conversation with Galmar following his victory speech in Solitude. It was in that moment, where they were joking about waiting for the Moot to be High King, his own words validated all of the Legion supporter's claims about Ulfric's personal motives (IMO) and made me question what I had just fought for, Who I had been killing and why. Now, I always join the Imperials. Not that I find them all that much better, TBH. The one Civil War mod that was never made that I would absolutely lovewould be one where I can create a 3rd faction, rally the Jarls behind and squash both the Stormcloaks and Imperials. But I've read how other modders (Like Arthmoor) won't touch the Civil War due to how badly messed it is after Bethesda gutted it. Edited January 7, 2016 by pgir001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loller99 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 According to the dossier in Thalmor Embassy, Ulfric is a Thalmor sleeping agent, so Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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