Join Empire or Stormcloaks? My Thoughts

[jpmonteith]

Didn't Ulfric fight back the forsworn at Markarth after his first release? Also I don't know much about the argonian situation, besides the fact that they're closer to what they'd likely be used too, the water. Perhaps maybe some part of reasoning could be to keep them from attacking the dunmer, as pay back for the enslavement of their people; perhaps it may have something to do with the argonians of Black Marsh having a sorta deal to raise hatchlings born under the sign of the shadow become shadow scales for the dark brotherhood; maybe it's cause argonians are admittedly the weirdest race to ever exist and not many races care for them cause of their strange activities, and wordings, as well as the near impossibility of telling what emotions they are feeling toward the situation. I also believe that the refugees that come to their city for safety might well have to prove them selves to their hosts. I believe it rude to come into someone's house, live there, eat their food, and not even offer to clean up afterward. I also firmly believe that with events as they are with the empire, I feel it's better for Skyrim and even other countries to cut ties with the empire, else they become drug down with it, when that withering giant falls. I believe that like the romans when they abandoned their gods, and became the roman catholics, the empire will fall its self, after having abandoned its religion to Talos, and surely will fall after emperor Titus Mede the Second's throat is slit by a member of some assassin guild.

Edited December 21, 2017 by jpmonteith

[MidbossVyers]

Ulfric Shouting during a duel is like Alexander the Great cutting the Gordian Knot or Sora from No Game, No Life throwing rocks at birds to make them fly away faster. Thinking critically to perform actions that are perfectly within the rules but most people write off as "implicit rules" (which isn't actually a thing, like how the vigilante Dawnguard claim to work under the Jarls' "implicit consent"). Truly champions of humanity, those 3.

[Caerulean]

@jpmonteith The thing is, the Dark Elves and the Argonians were officially/legally welcomed to Skyrim as refugees because of the situation in Morrowind, iirc. And their migration happened a long time ago, I believe. The other Dark Elves even made it north to Winterhold but they were later driven away (because of *ehem* Nord/local distrust) after the Oblivion Crisis and/or The Great Collapse. The problem is that the Nords of Windhelm are being so inhospitable. Also, there are presently no signs of conflict between the Dark Elves and the Argonians in Windhelm. If there still was such tension between them, the first Dark Elf you meet when you enter Windhelm would be less likely to mention the Argonians being treated 'worse' than the Dark Elves are. There are no apparent signs nor hints of an on-going Dunmer-Saxhleel conflict in Windhelm. Also, while Argonians being near water would make sense, why are all of them being treated as laborers/lowest class citizens in Windhelm?

[jpmonteith]

I'm sayin' maybe the nords of Windhelm may think that of the argonians, seeing as they might think they'd hold a grudge for past treatment of their ancestors, as they might do so. I'm saying that would possibly be the nord reasoning. I think though maybe Shattershield may have a hand in keeping the argonians outside the city as well, having them work at the docks as low wage workers, meaning more money for him. Maybe Shattershield had convinced Ulfric, or his father to have it as such? Also, what about Hlaalu, and the Altmer woman who both believe that the dunmer must prove them selves to their hosts for keeping them safe within their walls? Hlaalu himself is a dunmer, respected 1 at that, and he believes his own people to be whiners. The nords gave them lodgings, and while they are s#*! holes, the dunmer do have the option to improve it, maybe make repairs, even customize it to look a little more like home, as long as they don't go overboard and cage an argonian dock worker or nord. I would also show distrust for the dunmer as well, seeing as back in morrowind, they take slaves, worship daedra, and have legalized murderers meant to somehow keep wars from happening. Think about it too, dunmer can live about thousands of years, so the dunmer the who came to Skyrim when argonians came to f*#@ their s#*! up in Morrowind might actually deserve some of the disrespect they get, as they likely don't respect the locals them selves. Likely chance is about a thousand years ago, they might have gone through a few generations of slaves, maybe even bred some slaves as brother and sister, cause they believe non-dunmer to basically be animals. They've captured people of other races just so they could sell them on the market as slaves. When a race such as the dark elves does this sorta' s#*!, or did, and they can live thousands of years, wouldn't you have a distrust for them too? I do like the dunmer as they're a kinda race that is almost entirely reprehensible, but I can see many reasons why the nords may treat them poorly. Argonians of the other hand, however, they worship trees, of which have a deal with the dark lord Sithis; they come from a poisonous, and diseased swamp, and also currently what's going on in black marsh is there's now a new tribe of super argonians bent on genocide left over from the oblivion crisis, of which the hist have full control of. I can see some possible reason to maybe distrust argonians. Also, there was once a town of argonians who were getting good with the empire of whom the hists ordered to be executed, same of argonians wanting to do the green pact deal with the woodelves. I'm definately seeing some good reasoning behind possibly keeping them outside, as they can pretty much be a little unpredictable.

[Caerulean]

Judging anyone based on their ancestors and their history seems shallow though and does not help the current situation, and definitely does not help the Stormcloaks gain many Dark Elf and Argonian allies. Did Winterhold prosper after the Dark Elves there were driven away? No.

 

That Dark Elf farmer guy may have gained some respect or tolerance but that only saves himself and his family. Not every Dark Elf in Windhelm can be a decent or successful farmer. One Dark Elf runs an inn/cornerclub. One works for a trading company at the docks. Lazy humans are not greater than lazy Dark Elves. Two of the beggars in Windhelm are humans. Rolff is a jobless drunkard. Yet they are entitled to 'respect' just because they aren't refugees. I'm just saying. The Dark Elves and Argonians in Windhelm possibly work just as hard as those in Riften or any other city/town; why must those in Windhelm be more discriminated against?

 

The Khajiits on the other hand apparently have such a notorious reputation that even the decent ones are not allowed inside the walls, unless you're the player character.

[jpmonteith]

What part of the fact that a dark elf can live thousands of years can you not grasp? I'm not being shallow and judging them on their ancestors, I'm judging them on the fact that they each individual dark elf lives longer than even the high elves, as in they will out live possibly even pass 90 generations of nords before they even come close to being finally dead. Just cause they look like they're in their 30's-50's doesn't mean that they arn't about 5,000 years old right now and have had several centuries of whipping slaves into f***ing their sisters. As for argonians, I mainly play as argonians, they're my favorite race cause they're lizard folk; but in reality, I'd deffinately be paranoid of the bastards cause again, they're unpredictable, and I doubt you can really tell whether or not they're under the influence of their mother f***ing tree gods of whom all have an A-moral standing. 1 second, you'll be chatting up the maid, next second her brother's ripping her throat out with his own teeth, and you're his next throat ripping target.

Edited December 26, 2017 by jpmonteith

[MidbossVyers]

Even if Tullius had "totally good reasons" for it, wanting to execute someone without even a show trial looks really bad.

[jpmonteith]

Yeah, also what sane person who just escaped an execution would then go and help out the people who just tried to execute them? Is it just me, or does it not make a lick of sense to help the assholes who just like a week ago tried to have my head chopped off? Oh also turns out that guy who escaped having his head chopped off, yeah turns out they're this era's hero, whoops! In fact, they're some demi-god that's champion of the nords that was formed of a piece of, if I remember correct, Akatosh. May not be the empire's fault that they constantly hold the savior of the world in prison, and on occasion almost kill them, but it is kinda their fault that they almost did lead to the death of the dragonborn, since they, by nothing other than choice, decided that even if you wern't on their list, and even if your only crime was crossing a border, they willingly made the choice to chop your head off. Least in Oblvion, their excuse was that the blades, and the emperor allowed you out of prison them selves, here the imperials make the choice to chop your head off for pretty much no reason at all. I'm kinda the guy who holds a grudge over that s#*!. I wouldn't go to the side that willingly tried to chop my head off for crossing a border.

[MidbossVyers]

The Dunmer's worship of Boethia and Mephala don't exactly breed trust, either, especially when their Skyrim quests are like activating Behelits from Berserk, where you have to sacrifice your allies and/or associates.

[jpmonteith]

The Dunmer's worship of Boethia and Mephala don't exactly breed trust, either, especially when their Skyrim quests are like activating Behelits from Berserk, where you have to sacrifice your allies and/or associates.

Also a good point. Also, again, while I do like the argonians, they worship the hist of black marsh who have a deal with sithis, lord of darkness, and god of the dark brotherhood. As lizard folk that all can kinda blend together, and they're also kinda hard to read. Khajiits also, a number of them actually do still like to steal things, and while it can be considered a stereotype, there's kinda a reason that stereotype exists, and it can be because it's true in a number of cases. The khajiit caravan claims that the nords believe khajiits are thieves and skooma dealers, while also making them right by you guessed it, being thieves and skooma dealers. They'll even deal you some skooma even if you arn't in the thieves guild.