Join Empire or Stormcloaks? My Thoughts

[MidbossVyers]

Where would the Dominion attack from? If they chose to attack by land, both Hammerfell and Morrowind hate them and would not allow them to do so. If Cyrodiil allows the Dominion to literally walk all over them, then Cyrodiil would have revealed their true nature as petty, villainous, or weak. If High Rock is still aligned with the Empire, then same reason as Cyrodiil. Otherwise, I doubt High Rock would allow it either. If they chose to attack by sea, given that they would need to swing around north, they would need some port to restock supplies, in which case, they would face the same problem as the land strategy. Even if they get there... Well, do you know the saying that the German and French invasions of Russia were warded off by the Russian generals, January and February? I'm sure that the Skyrim generals, Morning Star and Sun's Dawn, are equally fearsome.

[LoneWolfEburg]

 

If Cyrodiil allows the Dominion to literally walk all over them, then Cyrodiil would have revealed their true nature as petty, villainous, or weak.

The charitable interpretation of the pro-Imperial argument is that Cyrodiil may not have been weak before the rebellion, but would definitely be too weak after it had succeeded, with so many men and resources lost unsuccessfully fighting the rebellion, even if the vestigial Empire abandons all hostility towards the newly independent Skyrim soon after Solitude is taken by the Stormcloaks. It does, however, probably mean that a quick Stormcloak victory is likely preferable to a long, drawn-out Imperial victory as far as the opposition to the Dominion is concerned.

[Lachdonin]

Where would the Dominion attack from? If they chose to attack by land, both Hammerfell and Morrowind hate them and would not allow them to do so. If Cyrodiil allows the Dominion to literally walk all over them, then Cyrodiil would have revealed their true nature as petty, villainous, or weak. If High Rock is still aligned with the Empire, then same reason as Cyrodiil. Otherwise, I doubt High Rock would allow it either. If they chose to attack by sea, given that they would need to swing around north, they would need some port to restock supplies, in which case, they would face the same problem as the land strategy. Even if they get there... Well, do you know the saying that the German and French invasions of Russia were warded off by the Russian generals, January and February? I'm sure that the Skyrim generals, Morning Star and Sun's Dawn, are equally fearsome.

 

You do recognise that this isn't a war of conquest. This is a war of extermination. The Dominion would just leave Skyrim to it's own internal wars (which would happen) while it exterminates the rest of mankind. Then, when there is no one left, they would strike Skyrim from every quarter.

 

 

 

 

The charitable interpretation of the pro-Imperial argument is that Cyrodiil may not have been weak before the rebellion, but would definitely be too weak after it had succeeded, with so many men and resources lost unsuccessfully fighting the rebellion, even if the vestigial Empire abandons all hostility towards the newly independent Skyrim soon after Solitude is taken by the Stormcloaks. It does, however, probably mean that a quick Stormcloak victory is likely preferable to a long, drawn-out Imperial victory as far as the opposition to the Dominion is concerned.

 

 

Yes, charitable... lets go with that. Ignoring the fact we are told the Empire is ready for war, and doesn't want to commit ACTUAL forces to a petty little rebellion in Skyrim. The loss of resources from Skyrim would be detrimental, but not crippling, particularly when you consider that the Empire hasn't actually committed more than few officers to the Rebellion.

 

It is less an issue of whether the Empire loses out, or if Skyrim loses out. Independence does Skyrim more harm than it does the Empire.

[LoneWolfEburg]

If the loss of Skyrim doesn't actually cripple the Empire that much, than it seems that a major pro-Imperial rationale is weakened by it, though. The Imperial characters in-game state that the Empire is what is keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim - if the Empire is still relatively strong even after the secession, and the Thalmor are indeed saving Skyrim as a last meal, then it seems that these characters don't need to worry that much.

Edited November 26, 2014 by LoneWolfEburg

[MidbossVyers]

 

Where would the Dominion attack from? If they chose to attack by land, both Hammerfell and Morrowind hate them and would not allow them to do so. If Cyrodiil allows the Dominion to literally walk all over them, then Cyrodiil would have revealed their true nature as petty, villainous, or weak. If High Rock is still aligned with the Empire, then same reason as Cyrodiil. Otherwise, I doubt High Rock would allow it either. If they chose to attack by sea, given that they would need to swing around north, they would need some port to restock supplies, in which case, they would face the same problem as the land strategy. Even if they get there... Well, do you know the saying that the German and French invasions of Russia were warded off by the Russian generals, January and February? I'm sure that the Skyrim generals, Morning Star and Sun's Dawn, are equally fearsome.

 

You do recognise that this isn't a war of conquest. This is a war of extermination. The Dominion would just leave Skyrim to it's own internal wars (which would happen) while it exterminates the rest of mankind. Then, when there is no one left, they would strike Skyrim from every quarter.

 

 

 

 

The charitable interpretation of the pro-Imperial argument is that Cyrodiil may not have been weak before the rebellion, but would definitely be too weak after it had succeeded, with so many men and resources lost unsuccessfully fighting the rebellion, even if the vestigial Empire abandons all hostility towards the newly independent Skyrim soon after Solitude is taken by the Stormcloaks. It does, however, probably mean that a quick Stormcloak victory is likely preferable to a long, drawn-out Imperial victory as far as the opposition to the Dominion is concerned.

 

 

Yes, charitable... lets go with that. Ignoring the fact we are told the Empire is ready for war, and doesn't want to commit ACTUAL forces to a petty little rebellion in Skyrim. The loss of resources from Skyrim would be detrimental, but not crippling, particularly when you consider that the Empire hasn't actually committed more than few officers to the Rebellion.

 

It is less an issue of whether the Empire loses out, or if Skyrim loses out. Independence does Skyrim more harm than it does the Empire.

 

And you realize that, save for maybe High Rock, no one else likes the Empire, right? After the Battle for Solitude, Ulfric states plans to fight "a great darkness" "on these shores or abroad". Obviously, he is referring to the Thalmor. Skyrim and Hammerfell do not historically have any bad blood, as far as I can tell, and they both would have a fair bit of pride about driving out the Empire. Should the Dominion invade Hammerfell, do you think Skyrim would stand idly by? Morrowind is... a bit more difficult. However, understand that most of the Dunmer in the Gray Quarter are, in one way or another, connected to House Hlaalu. House Hlaalu have always favored the Empire and more... crafty methods of solving problems than the Nords care for. On the other hand, the current ruling House of Morrowind, Redoran, like Skyrim, favors a warrior culture. Indeed, there would be some in both provinces that have superiority complexes over the other, but the Stormcloaks and House Redoran's warrior cultures mesh more than House Hlaalu's crafty culture.

[Lachdonin]

If the loss of Skyrim doesn't actually cripple the Empire that much, than it seems that a major pro-Imperial rationale is weakened by it, though. The Imperial characters in-game state that the Empire is what is keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim - if the Empire is still relatively strong even after the secession, and the Thalmor are indeed saving Skyrim as a last meal, then it seems that these characters don't need to worry that much.

They are weakened in the lng run. A lack of resources and manpower would damage the Empire through a protracted war, and Skyrim's historic tendency to raid and invade its neighbours would make the largely undefended Skyrim-Cyrodiil border something that would have to be protected for the first time in a thousand years. The loss of Skyrim wouldn't hurt the Empire very much emediately, bit it would cripple it over the long term.

 

It's also a misconception to think that Skyrim is protected because of its geographical location. Alinor has the largest, most powerfu navy on Tamriel, and Skyrim has been historically vulnerable to naval invasions. The Dominon also already controls Balfera Island, so resupply enroute wouldn't be an issue.

 

And you realize that, save for maybe High Rock, no one else likes the Empire, right? After the Battle for Solitude, Ulfric states plans to fight "a great darkness" "on these shores or abroad". Obviously, he is referring to the Thalmor. Skyrim and Hammerfell do not historically have any bad blood, as far as I can tell, and they both would have a fair bit of pride about driving out the Empire. Should the Dominion invade Hammerfell, do you think Skyrim would stand idly by? Morrowind is... a bit more difficult. However, understand that most of the Dunmer in the Gray Quarter are, in one way or another, connected to House Hlaalu. House Hlaalu have always favored the Empire and more... crafty methods of solving problems than the Nords care for. On the other hand, the current ruling House of Morrowind, Redoran, like Skyrim, favors a warrior culture. Indeed, there would be some in both provinces that have superiority complexes over the other, but the Stormcloaks and House Redoran's warrior cultures mesh more than House Hlaalu's crafty culture.

Nobody is EVER liked the Empire. Any of them. Even during the Tiber Wars Septim had to reign in wayward marks, despite being declared Talos. And throughout the Septim Empire there were numerous uprisings all over Tamriel. This isn't an issue of LIKE it is an issue of divine authority, with rests with the holders of White Gold.

 

You are also applying a usual double standard, taking Ulfrics word as fact while disregarding Tulius' statements that the Empire is almost ready for war. Ulfrics claims also disregard the knowledge that one of his supporting Jarls freely admits Ulfric is just a platform for independance, and two others have rather forced loyalties. As Balgruf says, his victory is more likely to result in protracted inter-hold warfare rather than some unified effort against the Dominion.

 

Similarly, Hammerfell and Skyrim have ALWAYS been at odds. They typically competed as raider forces, often harassing each others coasts. There is not a single period in history where the two have worked together without an Empire forcing them to. They even went to was during the reign of Jagar Tharn. They also have diametrically opposed religious views. The Redguard hate Talos and Lorkhan/Shor, meaning the theological basis of the Stormcloal movement would be unlikely to foster closer relations. There is literally no evidence, beyond pipe-dreams, of an alliance between Hammerfell and Skyrim.

 

Similarly, RedoraN would NEVER back Skyrim. Warriors they may be, but the Redoran are fanwticl traditionalists, and have a very long history of fighting the Nords. Even during the Alliance War. Redoran was withdrawn and insular, barely tolerating the Nords in Morrowind, despite the Tribunal's decree. Similarly, the Indoril only put asside a thousand dland more years of war against the Nords because their gods ordered them to. Hlaalu is the only, ONLY house who has ever really fostered relations with non-Dunmer, and now that they and the Tribunal are gone, you can be rather sure the Dunmer won't help Skyrim, or the Empire, or the Dominion, or anyone else.

[MidbossVyers]

I think the game made it clear that there will be embers of resistance in Skyrim, regardless of who wins, so the infighting factor can work both ways. Also, this might be game play and story segregation, but based on the player's dealings with them in Morrowind and Skyrim, House Redoran is known to be distrusting of "outlanders" (as with all the Dunmer Houses), but not outright rejecting them.

Edited November 27, 2014 by MidbossVyers

[TheVampireDante]

House Redoran is known to be distrusting of "outlanders" (as with all the Dunmer Houses), but not outright rejecting them.

 

I tihnk that basically comes down to whether or not the "outlander(s)" in question pose a threat or disruption to the House and it's ways.

 

If the interested party could prove that they might be a reliable ally/asset to the house, then I expect the Redoran would at least give them a chance.

[skyquest32]

I know its a bit shallow but the imperials are cooler and go well with my character, never was into joining rebelions rag tag or otherwise in fantasy games. I think the empire is the rightful goverment. I also dont support the way the storm cloaks do things or there attitude tword others. They are disrupting socity, order and....Ulfric is, basicly just a...well how do I say this without ofending people?

Anyway I support the empire.

[Lachdonin]

The Nords and Redoran fought a war just prior to the Oblivion Crisis that almost destroyed the house. Their attitudes in Dragonborn are also not the best indicator, since we're talking about a fringe territory that's been basically cut off by the Redoran council anyway...