Join Empire or Stormcloaks? My Thoughts

[MidbossVyers]

Well, let me put it this way. Which faction are the Redoran more likely to help? Please note that they just kicked House Hlaalu off the Council seat for siding with the Empire. How do the dark elves view hypocrisy?

[Lachdonin]

Blegh... I had long post about Dunmer politics and culture... And then I hit back and deleted it... I'll 're-ela krate when I get home...

 

Cliffs notes, the Dunmer are more likely to just not side with anyone and watch the world burn out of spite. Even if they did pick a side, things like hipocracy and grudges mean little compared to pragmatism. They would he mostlikely to side with whoever they think has the best chance of winning. Or whoever the Daedra tell them to...

[pleasenoname]

I was in house Redoran in Morrowind. They actually have a +1 disposition boost toward the imperial

legion. The reason for that is because house Redoran are traditionalists and military veterans. Thus they respect fellow career soldiers. They will fight, only when necessary though. They would never interfere in the affairs of external kingdoms, especially after fighting with the nords shortly before the Oblivion crisis.

 

As for the Redguards, checkout the storyline of the "Redguard" game.

The Redguards had a civil war between the traditionalists and the progressives(Crowns and forebears).

The empire stepped into the fray and seized power by backing the forebears. Eventually the crowns and

forebears reconciled and got a better treaty with the empire negotiated.

There is no love of the empire among the Redguards and now they are free of the empire and

sent special teams to Skyrim, with the purpose of arresting traitors who sold them out to the Thalmor.

Their enemy is the Thalmor, so I think they would aid the rebellion in Skyrim.

[Lachdonin]

Alright, the Dunmer... This is a cultural examination, so bear with me...

 

The Dunmer have reverted to their pre-ALMSIVI approach, no longer reigned in by the influence of the Tribunal Temple. While there are continued religious schisms within Morrowind, it seems that they are very much back to their business as usual infighting and covert warfare.

 

To understand the Dunmer, you have to understand their gods. Their most revered gods are Azura and Boethia, with Mephala taking something of a back seat (but i will get to her). Azura doesn't really influence their policy or outlook much, and is sort of a mother figure, but Boethia is where most of their world-view comes from...

 

This makes them first and foremost self-serving pragmatists. They will do whatever serves THEM, and usually at the expense of others. If it's in their interests to let Tamriel fight it out, and then surge forth from Morrowind and slaughter everyone, they will have no qualms about doing that. They don't have a problem switching sides, stabbing allies in the back, or on the flip side putting aside long-standing grudges (as seen in the First Council and the Alliance War), so long as they come out stronger than they were.

 

This national pragmatism means that, if they support anyone, it would be who they think is most likely to win. Or, perhaps, who is likely to win WITH their help, but be left in a position of weakness following which they can use to their advantage. Based on basic math, the Empire has the best chance, though if the Dunmer think they could propel the Nords to victory and then stab them in the back, they may to that as well...

 

Typically, though, the Dunmer are isolationists. Even during the height of Velothi culture, and the power of the Chimer during the First Council, they never expanded beyond Morrowind. They don't care about the rest of the world, and would be content to hold their borders while Tamriel burns. The only times we have them rushing to defend, attack or conquer anything was under the direct influence of the Tribunal, who are now gone... Unless there is a very visible threat, they'd be more likely to just ignore things than they would to support ANYONE.

 

 

 

As for the Redguards, checkout the storyline of the "Redguard" game.
The Redguards had a civil war between the traditionalists and the progressives(Crowns and forebears).
The empire stepped into the fray and seized power by backing the forebears. Eventually the crowns and
forebears reconciled and got a better treaty with the empire negotiated.
There is no love of the empire among the Redguards and now they are free of the empire and
sent special teams to Skyrim, with the purpose of arresting traitors who sold them out to the Thalmor.
Their enemy is the Thalmor, so I think they would aid the rebellion in Skyrim.

 

The Crowns and Forbears didn't reconcile though, they suffered from continued animosity and periodic civil war for the next 700 years, until they finally found common ground during the Great War. They have also fought against Skyrim, and Highrock, and again have some very deep-rooted theological conflicts with the whole Talos-worship thing. There is also the point that the Redguard are united for the first time in almost a thousand years, and have a tendency to fierce individualism. This would be bolstered by their perceived victory over the Dominion (which i personally think was more of a ruse on the Dominion's part) and i don't think it's something the Redguard would give up lightly. Most of the scholars on the Bethesda Forums, and /r/TESlore seem to think that Hammerfell would quickly support the Empire, were they to attack the Dominion, but i think it unlikely they'd help either the Empire or the Stormcloaks. Like the Dunmer, i think it far more likely they would remain out of further conflict, unless there was a very obvious threat to the world.

[LoneWolfEburg]

There's at least one confirmed Hammerfell Redguard in Stormcloak ranks, although we never see him in-game. He's not connected with the government of Hammerfell, though, just a random volunteer.

[Lachdonin]

There's at least one confirmed Hammerfell Redguard in Stormcloak ranks, although we never see him in-game. He's not connected with the government of Hammerfell, though, just a random volunteer.

Yeah, we also have a known Altmer Legate in the Legion. Individuals are want to do what they please, and don't represent the interests, motivations or traditions of their nation of origin. Even then, just being a Redguard does not mean you are from Hammerfell. Take the Montierre Family... They're Bretons, but have lived in Cyrodiil for generations.

 

Historically, the only people that Hammerfell has ever allied with are the Bretons. Some of them at least. If they were to assist anyone, it would likely be done through Breton diplomacy. And they've already turned Ulfric down.

[MidbossVyers]

Explicitly or just by not returning their letters?

[Riprock]

 

While the intensity may vary, most serious Stormcloak arguments that I've read are well thought out and well researched, while most Empire arguments just boiled down to "common sense" and "the evidence is EVERYWHERE (not giving specific pieces of evidence but literally saying 'the evidence is everywhere')".

 

Whereas my experiences have been the opposite. With a few stellar exceptions, most Stormcloak arguments i have encountered have been basically "The Empire tried to kill you!" or "FREEDOM!".

 

Point being, you have to take the arguments one by one, instead of trying to generalise the supporters of either camp.

 

 

:) The game plot's choices are about degrees of right and wrong, really. When it debuted, I can reasonably say you were supposed to be pre-disposed towards the Stormcloaks, then find out about Ulfric, to be surprised or more drawn into the game's choices as being meaningful in some way. As it turned out, this was only partly successful, I think we'd all agree.

 

But to me, it's about my character: what would he do?

 

My first character was Ermenrich, a middle aged Nord retiring from the Legion, to Skyrim, a homeland he never saw before. He was deeply betrayed when the Empire tried to execute him, and he made up his mind: right or wrong, he's having revenge. He lost everything and he did not expect to survive. He didn't care that Ulfrick was who he really was, he's just a means to an end.

 

My next character was Ecthelius Praeconis, an Imperial. He was Imperial through and through. He was quick to forgive, especially as he saw being Dragonborn as an omen that he would serve the Empire.

 

But all my TES games so far also end up seeing me create a true Conan, based on the RE Howard stories. I've done this twice with Skyrim, and it was interesting this time.

 

My first Conan wanted to de-stabilize the region, as he wanted to become a King. Skyrim could use one, so he wants to be it. Joining the Empire does not further that goal. So naturally he'd want to make the people of Skyrim see him as a great patriotic hero that wiped the Empire from Skyrim.

 

But my second play-through as Conan, which I'm on now, started off that way, as this is a deep ambition of Conan's. But the series of events- my character reading books, and reports and hearing things in the order and in the manner I read and saw them this time, made my second Conan hate Ulfrick, so he joined the Legion just to kill him.

[MidbossVyers]

Most Empire supporters here are respectable opponents. Unfortunately, most Empire supporters on GameFAQs literally think every piece of pro-Stormcloak evidence in-game is a joke, a developer mistake (yes, literally, all that programming and voice acting was a mistake), or a "special case" that doesn't count (sure are a lot of "special cases" out there).

[Lachdonin]

Explicitly or just by not returning their letters?

Admittedly, I haven't seen any explicit rejections mailed back to him... But I've courted enough women to know what 'not returning my calls' means.

 

Most Empire supporters here are respectable opponents. Unfortunately, most Empire supporters on GameFAQs literally think every piece of pro-Stormcloak evidence in-game is a joke, a developer mistake (yes, literally, all that programming and voice acting was a mistake), or a "special case" that doesn't count (sure are a lot of "special cases" out there).

That place sounds absolutely horrible.. Almost horrible enough to stop by and try to inject some class into the Internet-Peasantry... But between the Blizzard forums and Reddit, I though no my stupidity tollerance is about at its limit...