Lachdonin Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Yeah, I haven't been playing video games enough lately, grumpy nords all seem to be running together... Overall, the Stormcloaks are portrayed as intolerant, but not to enough of an extreme that I would classify them as having a systemic problem with racism. EVERYONE on Tamriel is interant, and it's been somewhat h ing the Empire has struggled to deal with for centuries. Though I will say that just because the drunk is Galmar's brother, doesn't mean anything. My brother supports the idea of National Interests, whereas I support the idea of global governance. Siblings can have differing opinions, or even differeing strengths of said opinions. Those opinions also tend to change when alcohol is involved. It's also clear that Ulfric's care for his Nord citizens is slipping, as voice be several people during the Blood on the Ice quest. His preoccupation with the revolt has left a murderer to run rampant through his city, targeting, it seems, Nords. This doesn't say anything about his conduct before he murdered Torygg, but it's definately gone downhill since. I still think that this is a war Ulfric cannot win, and that his very revolt is self defeating (provided he actually wants to see the Dominion defeated) mind you, but their perspective on the other races isn't even a factor. The fact that the Stormclaoks, cited as being composed of many veterans of the Great War, can't beat locally recruited militia in Legion uniforms (again, there is no proper Legion in Skyrim. They have a few token officers, and even all their gear seems to be commissioned locally) does not bode well for Skyrim's chances against the Dominion, who have shown they can break the f***ing Lunar Lattice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacSuibhne Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) The whole conflict in Skyrim is mirrored by our own society. Most people not only would choose security (or the illusion of security) over freedom and/or privacy, they've come to expect it. We've gotten to the point where we will tolerate...maybe even welcome...repression, even persecution and violence rather than exercise personal responsibility (read "freedom") and the attendant risks and uncertainties. We'd rather stay silent and still...like a rabbit quivering in the brush...than speak the truth if there is even the slightest chance that it will offend someone who might get mad. The Empire and their agents, the Thalmor...or perhaps that should be the other way around--the Thalmor and their agents, the Empire...are roughly analogous to our own government. And it almost doesn't make any difference what government you live under. With freedom...almost by definition...comes responsibility and all the risks that determining ones own fate implies. It is not surprising that so many find the Stormcloaks to be an unsettling and to-be-avoided-at-all-costs proposition. Someone once said something to the effect that those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither and will lose both.. Edited September 12, 2014 by MacSuibhne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fgambler Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 To summarize, my view of joining the Stormcloaks is the same as getting a wooden sword and a paper hat and yelling "Skyrim belong to the nords". Can't be more naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Yeah, I haven't been playing video games enough lately, grumpy nords all seem to be running together... Overall, the Stormcloaks are portrayed as intolerant, but not to enough of an extreme that I would classify them as having a systemic problem with racism. EVERYONE on Tamriel is interant, and it's been somewhat h ing the Empire has struggled to deal with for centuries. Though I will say that just because the drunk is Galmar's brother, doesn't mean anything. My brother supports the idea of National Interests, whereas I support the idea of global governance. Siblings can have differing opinions, or even differeing strengths of said opinions. Those opinions also tend to change when alcohol is involved. It's also clear that Ulfric's care for his Nord citizens is slipping, as voice be several people during the Blood on the Ice quest. His preoccupation with the revolt has left a murderer to run rampant through his city, targeting, it seems, Nords. This doesn't say anything about his conduct before he murdered Torygg, but it's definately gone downhill since. I still think that this is a war Ulfric cannot win, and that his very revolt is self defeating (provided he actually wants to see the Dominion defeated) mind you, but their perspective on the other races isn't even a factor. The fact that the Stormclaoks, cited as being composed of many veterans of the Great War, can't beat locally recruited militia in Legion uniforms (again, there is no proper Legion in Skyrim. They have a few token officers, and even all their gear seems to be commissioned locally) does not bode well for Skyrim's chances against the Dominion, who have shown they can break the f***ing Lunar Lattice.The Thalmor may control the Moons, but if the Stormcloaks do win, then it is most likely because they have the Dragonborn on their side. At the end of the Dawnguard quest line, the Dragonborn controls the Sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacSuibhne Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 To summarize, my view of joining the Stormcloaks is the same as getting a wooden sword and a paper hat and yelling "Skyrim belong to the nords". Can't be more naive.You're right, of course. But all you're really saying is that believing in things like honour and freedom and fairness--the things we took for granted before we became cynical or tired or afraid...is the same as being naive. The problem with all that is that we don't stop believing because we've lost our freedom; we lost our freedom because we stopped believing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmyhome Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 There isn't something like "freedom" in the Elder Scrolls universe. The only forms of government are monarchy or aristocracy. To the normal citizens it doesn't matter who rules them. Empire or Stormcloaks, they'll still demand taxes and impose laws. Only difference is that under the Stormcloaks Nords would be able to more freely worship Talos, whereas under Empire rule foreign races would be discriminated against less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 You also seem to be grossly oversimplifying the current social conflicts in the real world, MacSuibhne. Yes, security vs freedom is a component, but also the changing nature and perception of freedom factors into it, along with socio-cultura conflicts, global homogeneity, various economic concerns, technology and interpersonal interaction, particularly how they relate to privacy... It's not so simple as to say people are growing less concerned with freedom, and those who still stand up for it are viewed as radicals, the truth is a very deep philosophical, economic, political, social, religious and personal shift that has been ongoing for the last 40 years, and as yet does not have a clear end result. It's not a problem which can be simplified into basic speaking points. Convieniently like the Civil War in Skyrim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetTheJojDone Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 (edited) To summarize, my view of joining the Stormcloaks is the same as getting a wooden sword and a paper hat and yelling "Skyrim belong to the nords". Can't be more naive.You're right, of course. But all you're really saying is that believing in things like honour and freedom and fairness--the things we took for granted before we became cynical or tired or afraid...is the same as being naive. The problem with all that is that we don't stop believing because we've lost our freedom; we lost our freedom because we stopped believing. Why are you assuming that people who support the Empire don't care about freedom? The Empire isn't best buds with the Thalmor like you claim - there are very few Imperial sympathisers in-game who don't despise and distrust the Thalmor, including General Tullius and, implicitly, Legate Rikke. For that matter, I don't think I've met a single Imperial sympathiser who doesn't think that the Thalmor, not the Stormcloaks, are their real enemy. People who support the Empire are the ones who accept that the ban on Talos worship is purely a transitory arrangement to temporarily appease the Thalmor - most people continue to worship him privately, or at least, they did, until Ulfric came along to Markarth demanding more, and the Thalmor cracked down. Edited September 13, 2014 by GetTheJojDone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Erikur and Siddgeir say hi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Erikur is a bad example, because he only supports coin. He's just as 'patriotic' towards the Stormcloaks as the Empire, so long as he has money to be made. It would be a stretch to class him as supporting the Empire. Siddgeir is a better example, though still something of a self serving weasel. Still, he IS a staunch supporter of the Empire, if only because they prop up his power and help fund his indulgences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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