The Greatest Miltary Commander

[Aurielius]

Hey it seems you know what you talking about. I like that. :biggrin: But did they not have looking glasses back then in the days? The uniforms and other signs what make a ship unique gotta be pretty obvious to even the most blind fish.... except they took it for granted and did not look until it was to late...

 

English and American naval uniforms were very similar, so even at a medium distance lets say at 800 yards it would be difficult to differentiate between the two. Generally it was the hull design and rigging that gave the most important clue as to country of origin. American frigates mainly designed by Joshua Humphries of Philadelphia were in most respects hull similar to the French but rigging was more akin to the English. The Spanish lacked extensive time out of port which never makes for a good operational combat vessel.

 

Just as a general observation, no one has picked an Aerial or Naval commander in the tactical category, curious.

[kvnchrist]

Well, I am no military historian, but I'd like to hear what you guys think about Patton. I've heard a great deal about him, but the history books sometimes are romanticized greatly.

[DariusMoranda]

First,my apologies for a possible bad english,it is not my native tongue.

 

As for me,Hannibal Barca 'The Carthaginian'/ 'The African',made a biggest impact on me,both as a man and a military commander/leader.Such dedication and will has never seen before him,and neither after him.To take everything you have,every single man,available for combat,and to provoke Rome in those days,by crossing the Alps with an armed force,along with the famous elephants oh his...Just wow.He didn't stop at just provoking the 'almighty Roman Empire'.The cold mountain air along with the merciless winter season took most of his man and horses,dropping on only 22 000-25 000 soldiers.Hungered and tired,though.What he did-he recruited Gals who were hiding in the mountains to fill the holes,came down to the Rome's feet and declared war against them.Ha!Brave,yet could be suicidal,but no one could ever guess that he will be victorius,even greatly outnumbered by his opponents.Rome came with everything they got,currently.60 000 soldiers,the greatest army ever gathered in one place,til then.

 

Though,this guy knew something which brought revolution to military tactics.Huge army-a clumsy one.He lured them himself,using weaker Gals as a front line,and when the heavy roman troops charged to finish them off-elite mercenaries along with the elephants broke the opponents sides,creating a 'belt' around them.Then a counter came,and poof-the great roman army got strangled with a 'tie',getting demolished from all sides,as well as from the inside.The famous 'Hannibal' formation and tactical move.

 

Hannibal Barca,that day,killed 2 generations of romans and with his action,brought hate on his name,as well as unhuman fear.

 

Hannibal,just a few days ago from then,was an 'outsider' an anonimus.Now,the whole Empire had chills in their bones whenever his name was mentioned.Who knows history good,knows the rest of this story.

 

He was sworned to his call,always to fight Rome,never to surrender.When Carthagina fell into pieces,he continued to fight for every country who opposed Romans,until his very end.Neither then he was caught.He took the poison and escaped the assassins,forever to laugh at them.

 

Gotta respect and admire this man,if you ask me,for such tremendous skill and willpower he showed in his days.

 

As for the modern history,especially the WW2,there were some impressive individuals on the battlefield,indeed.

 

First to mention is Vasilij Ivanovic Cuikov,lieutenant general of the Soviet army in the Battle of Stalingrad.Damn,thsi man knows what the word 'pressure' means.Dedication and executing orders til the end.

 

Second to mention is General Draza Mihajlovic,serbian general of the King's Army,during the WW2,the first guerilla fighter of the Europe,and the biggest reason why the historians said that Serbia was 'the biggest mistake of Hitler's',and they were right.Great man,different ideology then mine,but my countryman and brethren,forever to be remembered. *salutes*

 

Friedrich VonPaulus,his opponent,of the german side,commander of the Sixth Army.He also fought this battle under unhuman circumstances.Respect for that.Dedication,executing orders til the end.

 

Tomoyuki Yamashita,general of the Japanese Imperial Army,acquired a remarkable result in his career,by capturing both Malaya and Singapore from the allies,which was almost impossible to do in that time,due to number of the allies stationed there and how well they were armed and fortified.Great tactician,salute to that.

 

Field Marshal Erwin Rommel 'Desert Fox'.Who knows WW2 well,nothing more to add on this name,it is not needed.Soldier for an example,to all of his collegues of the present time.

 

The list is endless,really.

 

Unfortunately,the only way to see who is 'the great military comander' is war itself,which doesn't brings good things to people,civilians or uniformed.I personally think that this planet has seen enough of it all.It would be good that peace finaly comes for all of us.

 

As for the name I mentioned,no offence because of their origins and to which country or ideology they served under,as a former fighter myself,I strongly stand for one rule that I was taught to obey,as long as I live>>>

 

All the fighters in war should be treated equally,no matter of their religion,their beliefs and their political views.Fight bravely for your family,brethren and country and respect your enemies always,as they bleed the same way like you do.

 

Cheers and stay safe

 

Captain Moranda

[Aurielius]

Second to mention is General Draza Mihajlovic,serbian general of the King's Army,during the WW2,the first guerilla fighter of the Europe,and the biggest reason why the historians said that Serbia was 'the biggest mistake of Hitler's',and they were right.Great man,different ideology then mine,but my countryman and brethren,forever to be remembered. *salutes*

 

Having spent the evening researching Draza Milailovic and his military career the only conclusion that i can come up with is that he was a collaborationist partisan leader without any major battles to his credit. If I understand the factual record correctly his claim to fame was fratricide of his countrymen. Correct me if I am in error on the particulars of his career or subsequent post War II execution for War Crimes. I thought it implicit that one should be able to cite evidence of battlefield acumen.

 

I find no fault with Hanibal Barca, truly an expert tactician and the author of 'Double Envelopment' at the Battle of Cannae, Unfortunately his strategic sense was not the equal to his tactical brilliance, as evidenced by his mistaken assumption that the Italian allies of Rome would defect. After 16 years on the ground in the heart of Roman territory he did not achieve his primary objective, the defeat of the Roman Republic. Admittedly he won many battles during that period, but was strategically outflanked by Publius Scipio Africanus who took the war to Carthage and ended the Second Punic War at the battle of Zama. In IMO Scipio is definitely the superior strategist to Hannibal (within the context of the Second Punic War), the resulting consequence of his (Scipio's) campaign was the termination of the nation of Carthage, fulfilling Cato's often repeated refrain "Carthago est delinda"(Carthage must be destroyed).

[DariusMoranda]

Second to mention is General Draza Mihajlovic,serbian general of the King's Army,during the WW2,the first guerilla fighter of the Europe,and the biggest reason why the historians said that Serbia was 'the biggest mistake of Hitler's',and they were right.Great man,different ideology then mine,but my countryman and brethren,forever to be remembered. *salutes*

 

Having spent the evening researching Draza Milailovic and his military career the only conclusion that i can come up with is that he was a partisan leader without any major battles to his credit. If I understand the factual record correctly his claim to fame was fratricide of his countrymen. Correct me if I am in error on the particulars of his career.

 

I have no fault with Hanibal Barca, a truly expert tactician and the author of 'Double Envelopment' at the Battle of Cannae, Unfortunately his strategic sense was not the equal to his tactical brilliance, as evidenced by his mistaken assumption that the Italian allies of Rome would defect. After 16 years on the ground in the heart of Roman territory he did not achieve his primary objective, the defeat of the Roman Republic. Admittedly he won many battles during that period, but was strategically outflanked by Publius Scipio Africanus who took the war to Carthage and ended the Second Punic War at the battle of Zama. In IMO Scipio is definitely the superior strategist to Hannibal, the resulting consequence of his campaign was the termination of the nation of Carthage, fulfilling Cato's often repeated pledge "Carthago est delinda"(Carthage must be destroyed).

 

Scipio's father was the leader in the first battle I mentioned,against Hannibal,since then Scipio literally became obsessed with Hannibal,and had great respect and admire for him.Indeed,he outmatched his greatest enemy,by observing his actions during a long time period,and studying his tactics and strategies.Student set his position above his 'master'.

 

On general Draza Mihajlovic-He wasn't a partisan leader,he was a general in King's army in WW2.They were called 'chetniks'. That name was taken by a wrong individuals,in WW2,giving some of them a bad name,but this man was a true agent of the serbian monarchists.

 

We had great partisan leaders,as well.The problem was,that chetniks and partisans didn't cooperate well,because of the opposite political views and goals.But many of them,again,did cooperate,as both chetniks and partisans had their own groups and were scattered all over the ex-Yugoslavian soil,with every larger group having it's own leader.Some of them opposed their own superiors,and wanted to bring their reforms and new paths for both of the movements.'Thanks' to that little war in between,General was trialed and executed by the communists,right after the war.

 

Overall,Draza Mihajlovic takes credit for numerous small battles which lost track in history writings,as they were guerilla style battles,ambushes,raids.mining infrastructures and cutting the railroads,food supplies,capturing forts,vehicles,assassinations of the important german officers and officials,for example,etc.Also,General and his men were responsible for saving around 500 U.S. airmen

 

 

 

and if you are interested to learn more about Serbia's ways during the WW2,enjoy>

 

 

and here are some partisans fighters vs germany

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojz9eFtuScM&feature=related

 

Serbia,right after our allies and brothers SSSR,gave the strongest counter punch to Hitler's face,and in return for that,we were betrayed by the western allies,they even bombed my city at the end of the war.Not to mention what happened in the 90's and on which side they are now.

 

Though,it is all politics,that isn't the fault of the people,even that we didn't got an honored place in the Victory March at the end,I am proud that we won on our soil,against the most terrifying enemy this world has seen by then.And we did it good.My great grandad lived til 1994,and was a captain in the King's army during the WW2,his brother was a partisan,but a notable one,and they got along in between,despite he different ideology.I am very proud of their military background,and I carried on with the tradition,in my days.The both of my great grandads were captured by combined SS in Ruma,and sent in Ustashi concentration camp,Stara Gradiska.The partisan grandad was killed there,with an axe,but my other grandad was sent further from there,in Dachau camp in Germany.He came back with tuberculosis,wighting only 45 kilograms.But he survived. :thumbsup:

 

I forgott to add,maybe the most important to me,on the list of military leaders.

 

Prince Lazar Hrebeljanovic

 

Thanks to this man and serbian royal army and our allies,the whole Europe stood free,and without any major worries,for 300 years after the Battle Of Kosovo,the very first 'defeat' The Ottoman Empire

experienced,and the very first time,the Sultan was killed,too.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosovo

 

When a torrent of arrows landed on Serbian armsmen,

who until then stood motionless like mountains of iron,

they rode forward, rolling and thundering like the sea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpsHxcdzqP4&feature=related bad quality,but you'll get the picture

 

and here is sultan slained,translated on english

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COgiMiQ8ji4&feature=related

 

Respect for the turk fighters,they were fearsome and brave,I salute to that,and Ottoman Empire was a real empire in the right meaning of that world,mighty and almost unstoppable.Whoever stood against them,no matter of nationality and religion,had guts,because they were strong as hell,in every aspect.

 

Even that we were conquered years after,we continued are fight,for almost 500 years,and we came out as victorius at the end.

 

Every large empire or army who stood with their boots on our soil,was rudely awaken.Serbia never fell,and will never fall under any kind of invasion,thanks to her military knowledge,educated and extremely well prepared soldiers,hard training,rough conditions,bravery and most of all-good and kind people. :thumbsup:

 

Good hunting,love and respect for all.

 

Captain Darius Moranda

[Aurielius]

I have avoided making a Strategic choice mainly because it was hard to prune off some of my top choices. I eventually eliminated:

 

1) SunTsu, since he is more primarily remembered for his philosophical treatise on warfare which is still applicable though in inherently non specific terms.

 

2) Genghis Khan, a true conqueror but his conquests due mainly to the introduction of new technology.ie: Composite Bow and improved Cavalry Saddles. though his application of rotating mobile archer reserves was extremely innovative for the period.

 

3) Napoleaon, one of the great masters of warfare by maneuver. His early victories of Jena, Austerlitz,Marengo,Wagram and Auerstat are masterpieces. But his later career he relied too much on his artillery and the 'coup de main' of the Imperial Guard with disastrous results at Moscova, Ligny and Waterloo. He failed to realize that his opponents were gaining a learning curve also.

 

4) Robert E Lee, another master of maneuver but with a mode that conserved his troops until the decisive moment. He did more with less than any other commander that I can think of but the Battles of Gettysburg and Petersboro were needless slaughters.

 

 

So that brings me to my own Strategic pick: Alexander the Great of Macedon. Alexander has to viewed in context of the period that he lived which makes a comparison to leaders such as Genghis Khan not very relevant, though Genghis Khan did nearly overrun the western world nearly 1500 years later. Alexander was practically invincible on the field and won every major engagement that he was involved in, though some of his victories were tactically 'a near run thing'. His strategic sense was unmatched at that time or later. He had a superb grasp of logistics and an extreme tenacity of purpose typified by the siege of Tyre.

 

338 BC: Battle of Chaeronea

At the age of eighteen King Philip trusted Alexander and put him in command of the left wing of the Macedonian army at the battle of Chaeronea in which Phillip defeated the Athenians and Thebans.

 

334 BC: Battle of the Granicus River

The battle was fought between Alexanders army and the Darius III of Persia. The battle of Granicus was a significant one since it was the battle in which Alexander achieved his first major victory against the Persians.

 

333BC: Battle of Issus

In the battle of Issus, around 30,000 Greeks faced 100,000 Persians across the river Pinarus, near the town of Issus. In this battle, Parmenio led the Greek left and had a hard fight of it, while Alexander led the right, which held the Macedonian cavalry.

 

332 BC: The Siege of Tyre

Alexander's capture of Tyre was not as important as the other battles, but the city of Tyre was known to be almost impregnable owing to its location, mammoth surrounding walls, fortified harbor and presence of water all around. The citizens of Tyre fought desperately till the end and after a seven-month siege, Alexander the Great conquered Tyre.

 

331BC: Battle of Gaugamela

The battle of Gaugamela was also a remarkable one. Guagamela was located in northern Iraq, on open plains, where Darius had deployed the full force of his 200,000 men, as compared to Alexanders army of 40,000 men. Alexander attacked the Persian center, where Darius was, and relied on cavalry to protect his flanks and won the battle of Guagamela.

 

Alexander was a attentive military leader. He would visit his men after the battle, examining their wounds and praising them for their valiant efforts. He would also arrange extravagant funerals for the fallen. The affection for their leader was what galvanized his troops.He was a leader who valued the lives of his soldiers and rarely spent them frivolously. As Peter Tsouras, a modern military intelligence analyst and historian said, the likes of Julius Caesar, Genghis Khan, and Napoleon Bonaparte may be mentioned in the same breath, "but none mastered every aspect of war with such success and such perfection as did Alexander." Although his empire splintered as soon as he died as there was no one capable of taking his place, he ushered in the Hellenistic age that lasted over 300 years after his death and paved the way for the eventual rise of the Roman Empire. He changed the ancient world forever and that is why he's still discussed, read about and revered some 2300 years after his death and why that will continue as long as humanity survives long into the future

[DariusMoranda]

I have avoided making a Strategic choice mainly because it was hard to prune off some of my top choices. I eventually eliminated:

 

1) SunTsu, since is more primarily remembered for his philosophical treatise on warfare which is still applicable though in inherently non specific terms.

 

2) Genghis Khan, a true conqueror but his conquests due mainly to the introduction of new technology.ie: Composite Bow and improved Cavalry Saddles. though his application of rotating mobile archer reserves was extremely innovative for the period.

 

3) Napoleaon, one of the great masters of warfare by maneuver. His early victories of Jena, Austerlitz,Marengo,Wagram and Auerstat are masterpieces. But his later career he relied too much on his artillery and the 'coup de main' of the Imperial Guard with disastrous results at Moscova, Ligny and Waterloo. He failed to realize that his opponents were gaining a learning curve also.

 

4) Robert E Lee, another master of maneuver but with a mode that conserved his troops until the decisive moment. He did more with less than any other commander that I can think of but the Battles of Gettysburg and Petersboro were needless slaughters.

 

 

So that brings me to my own Strategic pick: Alexander the Great of Macedon. Alexander has to viewed in context of the period that he lived which makes a comparison to leaders such as Genghis Khan not very relevant, though Genghis Khan did nearly overrun the western world nearly 1500 years later. Alexander was practically invincible on the field and won every major engagement that he was involved in, though some of his victories were tactically 'a near run thing'. His strategic sense was unmatched at that time or later. He had a superb grasp of logistics and an extreme tenacity of purpose typified by the siege of Tyre.

 

338 BC: Battle of Chaeronea

At the age of eighteen King Philip trusted Alexander and put him in command of the left wing of the Macedonian army at the battle of Chaeronea in which Phillip defeated the Athenians and Thebans.

 

334 BC: Battle of the Granicus River

The battle was fought between Alexander's army and the Darius III of Persia. The battle of Granicus was a significant one since it was the battle in which Alexander achieved his first major victory against the Persians.

 

333BC: Battle of Issus

In the battle of Issus, around 30,000 Greeks faced 100,000 Persians across the river Pinarus, near the town of Issus. In this battle, Parmenio led the Greek left and had a hard fight of it, while Alexander led the right, which held the Macedonian cavalry.

 

332 BC: The Siege of Tyre

Alexander's capture of Tyre was not as important as the other battles, but the city of Tyre was known to be almost impregnable owing to its location, mammoth surrounding walls, fortified harbor and presence of water all around. The citizens of Tyre fought desperately till the end and after a seven-month siege, Alexander the Great conquered Tyre.

 

331BC: Battle of Gaugamela

The battle of Gaugamela was also a remarkable one. Guagamela was located in northern Iraq, on open plains, where Darius had deployed the full force of his 200,000 men, as compared to Alexander's army of 40,000 men. Alexander attacked the Persian center, where Darius was, and relied on cavalry to protect his flanks and won the battle of Guagamela.

 

Alexander was a attentive military leader. He would visit his men after the battle, examining their wounds and praising them for their valiant efforts. He would also arrange extravagant funerals for the fallen. The affection for their leader was what galvanized his troops.He was a leader who valued the lives of his soldiers and rarely spent them frivolously. As Peter Tsouras, a modern military intelligence analyst and historian said, the likes of Julius Caesar, Genghis Khan, and Napoleon Bonaparte may be mentioned in the same breath, "but none mastered every aspect of war with such success and such perfection as did Alexander." Although his empire splintered as soon as he died as there was no one capable of taking his place, he ushered in the Hellenistic age that lasted over 300 years after his death and paved the way for the eventual rise of the Roman Empire. He changed the ancient world forever and that is why he's still discussed, read about and revered some 2300 years after his death and why that will continue as long as humanity survives long into the future

Sun Tzu is the name which surprised me good,maybe the first serious leader of the history,very intelligent and a wise man,proving it with his master accomplishments and writing the the very first deed on military strategies and tactics,perfectly connected and wrapped in a philosophical manner,'The Art Of War'.That is 'school',the first one,I wonder how many of military leaders have read this,through the centuries after..The most magnificent thing is that he wrote this from a human view,based on logic,contra- psychology(which was centuries in front of his time,revolution),studying fear among other things,which was interesting,how you can win a battle,using almost nothing of force,but only your brain and your surroundings,how pride can be both a weapon of victory and your own defeat,etc,definitely a pioneer in the warfare,and by his creative and very deep side,one can recognize a common man behind his warrior skin.

 

Impressive choice :thumbsup:

 

Robert E. Lee.Now If there wasn't that man there as a head of The Confederation Army,I think they would last much shorter then they did.What he did on the battlefield and politics at trhe same time,was almost impossible to do,in such circumstances that he was in.The Union was superior in every aspect,but he just didn't want to surrender,buying a place in my cool book for eternity with it.Poorly equipped,outnumbered and gathered from house-to-house army,rebelled and wrote many successes against the superior opponent,for years.Brilliant tactician,very well known for the small,quick and 101% effective raids,and enourmous bravery,like in the Battle of Gettysburg,he earned immortal respect among his countrymen and the enemies,too.And having Thomas Jackson 'Stonewall' as a hammer and Ambrose Powell Hill as an arrow is priceless.I ain't american,but If I lived back in the days there,I'd ride for Robert,without question. :thumbsup: He even got 'pardoned' by the US later,without getting hanged or lynched,heck,he even became a president of Waschington College,expanding and reforming that building from the root,and making it the first serious education institution in modern US. Warrior on every field,I say.

 

Napoleon Bonaparte.Who would ever dream that of a slim,short,bitter little man,can become a master-in command a genius in the warfare.This man was the first modern conqueror and became immortal in pages of history for numerous successes in battles,all over the world.Cold,disciplined,strict with orders,decisions and judgement he didn't lacked,he was always prepared for everything what comes up to him,and he always had a solution for every 'ramp' how to jump over.Straight up:no mercy,no talk,no negotiation.Fight,win,or die.He only lacked patience and did had mental problems,unfortunately.I guess he didn't read The Art Of War,and learned how the pride becomes arrogance,and how thin line is between those two.Interesting story,I don;t know if you are familiar with this-cognac glasses were designed by his sketch.First ones.Because he had that beautiful,expensive chandelier on the ceiling,crafted with pure gold and silver combo,with gems and diamons bound in,right abode the long dinning table where he enjoyed dinners with his guests,so as it was really high above,his cognac glasses were really wide and cicled,but the 'mouth' were tight almost like it is a bottle.So as you drink cognac,you don't drink it literally,you must move your head in on the back,letting the cognac to 'slide' down your throat, :wink: if you try to move the glass in the angle,one part of the mouth would always hit your nose,preventing you from drinking the booze. And with that move,people would raise their eyes uppon the chandelier 'accidentaly' and could admire it and talk about how beautiful it was. Lol,I can only imagine his satisfaction at the head of the table,observing this.That little story speaks volumes of how tricky this man was and how a genius can become a madman,easily.Nonethless,a commander to admire to.He even had guts to go rogue on Russia with his Grande Armee.He did failed,but he charged there,that requires either lack of brain or bravery of a hero.Either way,he did it there at the Battle of Borodino.the greatest battle to this day.General Kutuzov was a big piece to bite though.He had Napolen's character in himself,as well,and performed Hannibals tactic,school one there,with retreating near moscow,to replenish the ammo and to reinforce,then counter full assault to frenchmen.Battle Of Maloyaroslavets was Napolen's downfall,finally.Kutuzov brought Grande Armee from 690 000 to only 90 000-93 000 which came back to Prussia alive.

Napoleon Bonaparte,the first conqueror of the modern world. Salute to that.Naopleon could have been also a 'lecturne' for Hitler,later,but ol Adolf had more problems then Napoleon.In short,he lacked more patience then his collegue and even more mental difficulties bothered him.The lecturne was simple.Have some patience,get a grasp,gather your thoughts and make a primary goal,don't strech your guard wide open,cause you will run out of strenght ,if your punches fails.And don't go to Russia!

 

Genghis Khan,ah...The Khan of the biggest empire to this day.A classic iron fist,he wasn't joking at all.Unite the families,destroy the opposing dynasties,unite the nomad tribes from all of the asia,starting central,and full assault!He didn't stop nowhere,he crushed everyone and everything which stood on his way.Literally,nothing could hold off Golden Mongolian Cavalry in those days.They were like a huriccane.Don't know where to start and where to finish with this guy.And how to describe him?Yes he was ruthless and non negotiable,a warlord,probably.And maybe the biggest one ever.He took part on Europe,as well,and was pretty successful.taking many of the lands for vassals or completely neutralizing them.And interesting,one of those many mighty warriors empires who picked on us here,too.Both vassal Tatars of Shishman and his mongolian support were crushed by King Stefan Milutin of Serbia,utterly demolished,though we had to truce when Mongols reinforced,sending a son of the king as a vassal regent.He escaped later though,and attacked Mongols along with Bulgarians,driving them out for good.

Nonethless,Genghis Khan is the name which will stay immortal,both for his accomplishments and ability to command very large forces,without getting clumsy at all and his cold blood,which spread terror wherever he stood his boot.

 

Alexander The Macedonian.I have nothing to add on your text,you said it all there.He is our 'neighbor' here,and from there,he went all over to Alexandria.How badass is that? :thumbsup:

 

Freedom is the right,earned at the birth.

 

Moranda

[hoshi23]

Actually now somthing comes to mind, which i havent seen mentioned yet: Cyrus the Great. He forged much of what was later to be known the persian empire.

[Aurielius]

 

Robert E. Lee.Now If there wasn't that man there as a head of The Confederation Army,I think they would last much shorter then they did.What he did on the battlefield and politics at trhe same time,was almost impossible to do,in such circumstances that he was in.The Union was superior in every aspect,but he just didn't want to surrender,buying a place in my cool book for eternity with it.Poorly equipped,outnumbered and gathered from house-to-house army,rebelled and wrote many successes against the superior opponent,for years.Brilliant tactician,very well known for the small,quick and 101% effective raids,and enourmous bravery,like in the Battle of Gettysburg,he earned immortal respect among his countrymen and the enemies,too.And having Thomas Jackson 'Stonewall' as a hammer and Ambrose Powell Hill as an arrow is priceless.I ain't american,but If I lived back in the days there,I'd ride for Robert,without question. :thumbsup: He even got 'pardoned' by the US later,without getting hanged or lynched,heck,he even became a president of Waschington College,expanding and reforming that building from the root,and making it the first serious education institution in modern US. Warrior on every field,I say.

 

Though I appreciate your respect for Robert E Lee, he was not ever in charge of the entire Confederate Army but rather The Army of Northern Virginia.

There were two other major separate commands at the time, Branston Bragg commanded the Army of Tennessee which invaded Kentucky but was eventually beaten by Ulysses S Grant and John Bell Hood who commanded the Army of the Western Mississippi, brave but not bright (my apologies to my Texas brethren who still revere him).

 

Stonewall Jackson unfortunately was killed prior to the Battle of Gettysburg. Though Lee was well served by Longstreet, Garnett, Dance and Pickett in that battle and to a lessor extent the absent cavalry of Jeb Stuart.

 

Washington College was not and is not a institute for military study nor founded by Lee but rather it's namesake George Washington, though Lee was the dean for several decades.

West Point (1802) and Annapolis (1845) both founded before the Civil War, are where military skills are taught (being an Annapolis man myself ,I had to correct the record).

 

Lee's amnesty was due to the bond between West Point graduates Ulysses Grant, Sherman and Lee, overseen by the benign leadership of Lincoln. All that being said, Lee was a brave, gallant and tireless general who is respected on both sides of the Mason Dixon Line.

 

As for whom I would have fought for, well my family lost 80% of it's male members serving in Pennsylvania regiments, three lost at Gettysburg alone. Then as now I would have chosen offshore service with the US Navy preferably with Farragut.

[Aurielius]

I have done a brief census of the candidates for The Greatest Military Commander.

 

CURRENT STRATEGIC CANDIDATES

 

Sun Tsu

Leonidas of Sparta

Epaminondas of Thebes

Alexander the Great

Hannibal Barca

Publius Scipio Africanus

Gnaeus Pompey Magnus

Surena of Parthia

Gaius Juluis Caesar

Saladin

Genghis Khan

Napoleon Bonaparte

Adolf Hitler

 

CURRENT TACTICAL CANDIDATES

 

Achilles - (Champion)

Lord Cochrane -(Admiral)

Robert E Lee - (General)

Erwin Romel - (Field Marshall)

Von Paulus - (Field Marshal)

Vasiliy Cuikov - (Field Marshal)

Nguyen Giap - (General)

 

EDIT: If anyone feels that someone has been left out, post or pm and I'll add them to the list. In a about a week I'll set up a poll and we will see if anyone was convinced by an other's dissertation.