Persistant problems, please help.

[Damius]

I've looked through the forum and googled the problem multiple times, but i've yet to encounter anyone else having this problem with oblivion. In game its an oddly specific and persistant problem, but the real pain has come from having to create a work around for it. Technically i've fixed it for the most part, but its sensitive to ANY change or addition i make to any of the files, esps or the data folder at all.

 

The exact problem in game is a crash (i assume its a crash, im using crash prevention so i get a loud thunk noise from it and the game keeps running very badly) in very specific circumstances. In certain places i get these crashes, most notably in cheydinhal and leyawiin. I'm using better cities, and the error seems to line up perfectly with the little stream in cheydinhall it adds, but even with it removed i still get the crash where it was. With BC installed the crash line's up perfectly with me touching the added water, same in leyawiin, but its not exclusive to those places. I get the exact same error in a lot of other places, some not even remotely near water.

 

The problem goes away when i remove mods from my load order, but it acts oddly about it. I started from scratch adding mods one by one, going in and running over the cursed stream every time to test. Through (slow) simple deductive reasoning i managed to create a working load order that didn't have the problem, but when i added another new mod it came back. i deactivated the mod, but the error stayed. I repeated the process. The interesting part was when making the second load order mods that caused the crash when added didn't do so, and i ended up with another working list, comprised of different mods. A few in particular that in my first test were bad were working, and a few that were fine at first would bring the error back when added. I'm not very good with wrye bash or obmm, but i managed to get the conflict detector working, and some of the bad mods reported having no conflicts. Another interesting trait this problem has is its sensitivity to any changes to my data file. i disovered this entirely by accident. I tried to use cm partners on top of a working load order, but had no luck. deactivating the esp didnt make the problem go away, but removing it via its omod did. it doesnt like most new files. Not all mods are like this, some are fine others not. I added west roads and the matching map for it, not a problem, but for example curse of hircine (which was working on the first list) brings it back. Most home mods too cause it, even ones that worked in the past. The official mods are fine though.

 

When the actual crash error sound happens the game continues, but without custom content. Im not entirely sure if this is part of the problem, or just how crash prevention deals with severe crashes, but ill detail it anyway should it actually be relevant. Anything immediatly in the area im in is fine, with a few odd exceptions. My character wears mod clothes, and uses robert v5; after the crash sound the clothes are fine until removed. Under the clothes there is no body, which i think is a missing mesh, and the clothes are the same when put back on. same for accesories and weapons that are modded, vanilla stuff is unaffected. The only immediate exception is with illumination within windows on the cheydinhal chapel, they instantly disapear with the error. When i load a new cell that has custom content i get error markers. When i first got the problem i could pause and save, though the saves would be missing from the load screen when i restarted the game. i installed darkui darn, and ever since when i get the problem i cant pause at all. Nothing modified will work.

 

I tried loading a really old save to see if the problem was haunting my current save file. still crashed crossing the stream. (that stream has become my main method of testing)

 

Tried a older mod list saved into my wrye bash, back when i know it was working. That didnt work either.

 

I thought it might be my virus protection stopping the modded content being accessed, but disabling it had no impact. Also tried altering my load order multiple times, first with BOSS, then with obmm. Absolutely no effect on the crash. The only way to get rid of it is by testing one at a time until i get a working load order, but that solution means is limited and not very effective. I have one other problem that appeared roughly the same time. Somtimes some (not all) modded items turn completly black and textureless, anything from weapons, to skin, to the glasses my character wears. if i restart the game they are fine, but somthing else has gone black. It may be completely unrelated, but again worth mentioning i think.

 

I've been as detailed as i could think to be. Im using the steam version of Oblivion, but i dont think that actually makes too much of a difference. Its not better cities as it happens with or without, and no one specific mod on its own seems to be the cause. I cannot find an obvious conflict thats causing it, and my load order doesnt appear to effect it. Having tested, prodded and experimented with obmm and wrye bash i cannot find a cause to the problem, only a badly cobbled together solution. The problem is persistant and stubborn, refusing any method i've tried on it. I've been working on it for neerly two weeks, and have finally given up and accepted that i need real help fixing this one.

 

i've attached my current working load order in a txt file, hopefully it might help. I realise its not perfectly in the right order, my BOSS doesnt recognise all my mods and makes mistakes, and my own experiments have messed it up a bit. Any and all help appreciated.

[Tomlong54210]

Why do you have duplicates of the BC+UL patches installed? Drop Hrmmn's script optimization. It is useless and buggy. Regenerate your Oblivion.ini file, and defrag your HDD. Drop IWR, and use AWLS instead. Your load order needs work... Do not modify your LO by hand unless it is to move unrecognized mods.

 

 

Popular Outdated Mods - http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/stabilization/outdatedmods

Outdated Optimization - http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/optimization/outdated

Regenerate Oblivion.ini - http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/troubleshooting/regenoblivionini

Load Ordering - http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/finishinstall/loadorder <-- use this template to move unknowns, your load order is currently a mess

[Damius]

Did everything you said to do to the best of my ability. I removed the duplicate ul-bc patchs, changed to awls, got rid of script optimisation, and did a defrag.

 

The crash is still very much there, but i now have slightly fps and performance. I may have botched the load order though, i used boss, and then moved the unrecognised ones around in obmm. Any other ideas? I did briefly get it working, but once i tried introducing new mods to the mix it came back. I only added all natural, armamentarium and artifacts 2 (both were on that website you linked to, and i liked the look of them, and artifacts was on the requirement list for armamentarium) but it came back, i turned off the esp's, still there. I suspect if i fully remove them through the omods it will go away again, in a similar pattern to my previous experiences. i atatched my new mod list, not working this time. Any other ideas? I am willing to try anything at this point.

 

One thing i did notice when using artifacts2; when i approached the cell with the new building for the collectors guild the error happened again. It seems to be, i think, only happening when i cross over into cells have been modded or contain modified content. That would explain why the cursed stream in cheydinhal stays problematic even without BC.

[Tomlong54210]

Please, post your load order in your posts. It is easier for me to comment on it that way. I hope that is not too inconvenient. I can help you move the unknown mods. Just give me a brief description of the purpose of each of the unknowns, and I can tell you where to place them. OBMM's conflict detection is not great, so deactivating an OMOD may not fully uninstall a mod. Usually the aftereffects are minor, but sometimes it matters. It would be best if you came up with a small, organized LO that worked first. You have to test it thoroughly after adding each new mod from that point.

[Damius]

Whilst trying to make a stable load order i noticed yet again that the files that were and were not working were completely different than the last two times. No amount of load order tinkering is making it go away, and i cannot find a single file, or set of files that is conflicting in any way is causing the error. I even tried a full uninstal and reinstal with no luck. Any thoughts as to a cause, or have i somehow created an entirely new and resiliant problem?

[Tomlong54210]

You should start over, and do not manually tweak your load order unless you have to (i.e., when BOSS does not recognize all of your mods.) In fact, leave out mods BOSS does not recognize for now. Post a working load order here once you get it. Then post the next one that breaks. You should be able to put a stable LO together.

[Damius]

current tested and working mod list, using only files boss recognises.

 

00 Oblivion.esm

01 Cobl Main.esm [Version 1.72]

02 TamrielTravellers.esm [Version 1.39c]

03 Armamentarium.esm [Version 1.35]

04 Artifacts.esm [Version 1.1]

05 StarX Vampire Deaths.esm

06 All Natural Base.esm [Version 0.9.9]

07 Better Cities Resources.esm

08 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.2.5]

09 DLCShiveringIsles.esp

0A Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.4.0]

0B Better Cities .esp

0C WindowLightingSystem.esp

0D Expanded Hotkeys and Spell Delete v1.0.esp

0E Expanded Hotkeys Brief Equip Message.esp

0F DLCHorseArmor.esp

10 DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]

11 DLCOrrery.esp

12 DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.3]

13 DLCVileLair.esp

14 DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]

15 DLCMehrunesRazor.esp

16 DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]

17 DLCSpellTomes.esp

18 DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]

19 MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp

1A Armored Masks.esp

1B DLCThievesDen.esp

1C DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]

1D Slof's Oblivion Robe Trader.esp

1E Cobl Glue.esp [Version 1.72]

1F Cobl Si.esp [Version 1.63]

20 Cobl Tweaks.esp [Version 1.44]

21 ArmamentariumLL.esp [Version 1.35]

22 ArmamentariumLLVendors.esp [Version 1.35]

23 ArmamentariumLLMagic.esp [Version 1.35]

24 ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp [Version 1.35]

25 ArmamentariumLLArmaVendor.esp [Version 1.35]

26 Artifacts.esp [Version 1.1]

27 Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp [Version 1.0]

28 Castle_Wolfspike.esp

29 Castle_Domrose_V1.2.esp

2A Castle_Highrock.esp

2B Castle_Veyond.esp

2C Reaper's Coldstone Town.esp

2D Region Revive - Lake Rumare.esp

2E The Ayleid Steps.esp [Version 3.2]

2F Ayleid Respawn v1.0 - For The Ayleid Steps.esp

30 VHBloodlines 1.2.esp [Version 1.4]

31 DLCBattlehornCastle.esp

32 DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]

33 DLCFrostcrag.esp

34 DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]

35 Knights.esp

36 Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.9]

37 Castle_Knightstone.esp

38 ElsweyrAnequina.esp

39 Reaper's Esmeralda's Desert Manor.esp

3A road+bridges.esp [Version 4.5.2]

3B xuldarkforest.esp [Version 1.0.3]

3C xulStendarrValley.esp [Version 1.2.1]

3D xulTheHeath.esp

3E XulEntiusGorge.esp

3F xulFallenleafEverglade.esp [Version 1.3.1]

40 Anequina-Fallenleaf-Patch.esp

41 xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp [Version 1.2.1]

42 xulChorrolHinterland.esp [Version 1.2.2]

43 xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp

44 Castle_Almgard-V2.esp

45 xulBravilBarrowfields.esp [Version 1.3.2]

46 xulLushWoodlands.esp [Version 1.3]

47 xulAncientYews.esp [Version 1.4.2]

48 xulAncientRedwoods.esp [Version 1.6]

49 xulCloudtopMountains.esp [Version 1.0.3]

4A xulArriusCreek.esp [Version 1.1.3]

4B xulPatch_AY_AC.esp [Version 1.1]

4C xulRollingHills_EV_withoutWheat.esp [Version 1.3.2]

4D xulPantherRiver.esp

4E xulRiverEthe.esp [Version 1.0.2]

4F xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp [Version 1.0.2]

50 xulImperialIsle.esp [Version 1.6.3]

51 xulBlackwoodForest.esp

52 xulCheydinhalFalls.esp [Version 1.0.1]

53 xulAspenWood.esp [Version 1.0.1]

54 xulSkingradOutskirts.esp

55 NRB4+UL-II Patch.esp [Version 5.0]

56 West Roads.esp

57 RegionReviveLakeRumare-ImperialIsle patch.esp [Version 1.3.2]

58 NRB4+RR Patch.esp [Version 2.1]

59 StarX Vampire Deaths.esp

5A Border-Region-disabled.esp

5B Quest Award Leveller.esp [Version 2.0.1]

5C Quest Award Leveller - Vile Lair.esp [Version 2.1.0]

5D Quest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.esp [Version 2.1.0]

5E SupremeMagicka.esp

5F SM_ShiveringIsles.esp

60 SM_EnableCharmChameleon.esp

61 SM_NoPoisonLevitationEffects.esp

62 SM_NoSpellLights.esp

63 More Realistic Sneaking 1.9 - Sleepkill Dagger.esp

64 No psychic guards v1.2.esp

65 Smarter Mercantile Leveling - Multi.esp

66 S.P.A.M.esp

67 Cobl Races.esp [Version 1.52]

68 NRB4 Standard Road Record.esp

69 Streamline 3.1.esp

6A Enchanted Portable Tent for Cobl.esp

6B All Natural.esp [Version 0.9.9]

6C All Natural - SI.esp [Version 0.9.9]

6D All Natural - EW + NW.esp [Version Final]

6E Slof's Oblivion Goth Shop.esp

6F za_bankmod.esp

70 Better Cities Full.esp

71 Better Imperial City.esp

72 Better Cities - Unique Landscape Chorrol Hinterland.esp

73 Better Cities - Unique Landscape Barrowfields.esp

74 Better Cities - COBL.esp [Version 2]

75 Better Cities - VHBloodlines.esp

76 Better Cities - Unique Landscape Cheydinhal Falls.esp

77 Better Cities - Unique Landscape Skingrad Outskirts.esp

78 Better Cities Full FPS Patch.esp

79 Better Imperial City FPS Patch.esp

 

On top of this i tested eight different files with the above order; each one individually made the error come back. They also seem to have little to nothing in common;

tamrieltravellers

shadowcrest_vineyard (worked fine in previous)

patch-wolfspike-ul

NRB4+vineyardpatch (i can use all the other new roads patchs, but not this one)

Enchanted portable tent for cobl (boss didnt recognise it, but i thought to test it anyway, and it worked last time)

curse of hircine

Ayleid Loot EXtension (worked in last modlist, but not now)

1SB_vampirehaven

I would have tested more but my patience began to wear thin, it seemed every mod i added had the same effect.

 

BOSS didnt recognise ten of the mods i would normally use.

ElaborateEyes for Robert's Bodies

Blood Potions for Vampires

AznarsVampiresLongCraving

Slof's Victorian Clothes

Armoured Arms Redone

Enchanted Portable Tent for Cobl

Banes DB Mask Placer True

Pauldron

Sno_DarkClub

Nightmist Manor

 

any thoughts as to how to fix this, or what the cause of it is?

[Tomlong54210]

That load order is not sorted properly. Regenerate your Oblivion.ini as well. Do you have the latest version of OBSE installed?

[Fonger]

on a basic heuristic

 

that mod list is too long not to have a Bashed Patch.

[Damius]

The load order is how BOSS arranged it with no tinkering from me. I've already regenerated the ini (ill have to change it back later as it messes with darkdarn ui), and im running obse v0018.

 

EDIT- i do have a bashed patch, only it causes the error too, i suspect somthing it merges in with it is one of the many files giving me trouble.