Can Someone Help Explain this Foot thing?

[jamochawoke]

Ok, while working on my Mod, Vanilla Drops, where it increases the Vanilla gameplay by seamlessly adding things to the game world that are extremely subtle but appreciable I've run across a problem. I've already emailed a few of the animation people I know of that do mods for Oblivion but haven't gotten any responses for quite a few days now. Perhaps someone on the forums here can help me out.

 

When using a kick I got from Seph's hand to hand animation replacer mod resource (I am also using 3rd person animations in 1st person mod which allows me to really add any 3rd person ani [altho I've found some have clipping issues with camera] to the game) I notice that feet from the kick will display when wearing "one piece" armors like Arena Raiments or Dark Brotherhood gear. However, I have also noticed that the feet WILL NOT display when wearing any multi-piece armors. I have been told that the game engine for some reason does not render feet except for the oddity of one piece armor sets. Here are some screenshots from my testing save file:

 

Wearing the Arena Raiment:

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2591/screenshot2dh.jpg

 

Wearing complete Leather Set (I'm doing a kick I promise!):

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9941/screenshot3xr.jpg

 

 

I was looking for a workaround for this and found this:

 

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13426

 

However, you will note that what that mod does is simply make EVERY armor in the game a one piece suit and puts them for sale in the Imperial City. This, to me; and especially for my mod's goals, is really a terrible workaround to get feet to show. I have been pondering another workaround for this for quite some time. I found Loup's immersion beta which forcibly adds a floating body to 1st person view although it's extremely buggy and requires OBSE (I'm trying to not use it as OBSE also kind of goes against my mod ethic).

 

I was wondering if any of these fixes might work (please excuse my noobliness in understanding this game's engine, and my horrible understanding of using Blender/ Nifscope):

 

- Take every boot, shoe, or foot armor in the game and load them into Blender; make the boots one-piece armors but the rest of the armor "invisible" like this tutorial: http://www.tesnexus.com/articles/article.php?id=363 but somehow editing it so you can also wear your armor on top? So basically it would look the same but as long as you are wearing boots it would force the game engine to render the feet during a kick animation?

 

- Add "invisible feet" to every armor in the game but make it so that it doesn't take up more than one slot in the CS? Would the invisible feet show or what you are wearing on your foot slot show while doing the kick?

 

If anyone more experienced than I wants to take this on I would be extremely extremely grateful as this is the most annoying thing I have found while modding so far and have been really wracking my brain to figure this out. Also to do my proposed fixes I would basically have to learn Blender and Nifscope from the ground up (all I know is how to change an animation to a certain power attack in Nifscope) and I'm not even sure either of my fixes would work at all.

[Skevitj]

Animation isn't my thing, so I might be way off...

 

As far as I understand, the player's (1st person) feet aren't rendered if it can be avoided as the player will never see them (reduce the rendering load probably, doesn't explain legs), however if armor covers the feet and another slot (not necessarily fullbody), they have to be drawn (for the armor's sake). Therefore it should be possible, mabey an ini setting (should be a bool, possibly int), to mark that feet should always be rendered. Never looked into it, so dunno which it is or if it exists, but it seems logical. It may be hard coded, in that case, I'm stumped as to a work around.

 

Could you make up a one-piece without the boots set, and a one-piece without the boots, but the boots use the tail slot as well? If I'm right, the 1st set shouldn't have the feet drawn, but the second set should. If that works as intended, it might be possible to forge a setequipmentslot workaround, but without adding an OBSE dependance praying that it works off an ini setting is the only thing I can think of. I believe the problem is in the way the engine decides what to render, not something a change in animation can fix.

 

Urgh... Can't be bothered rewriting what I just typed, but tail won't work, The boots will need to be attached to something that gets rendered in 1st person; torso, legs, gauntlets, rings, etc. That puts the seteslot fix on shaky ground... Pray that it's ini controlled.

[jamochawoke]

Wow that post was enlightening though! I haven't found anything in the ini files. Is there something specific I should be looking for?

 

Do you think if I asked on Bethsoft forums I could get a dev response (not likely)?

 

I'm wondering... I know there is a "unlimited rings" type mod. Do you think I could set the amount of rings that can be worn to 3 and then go through the CS and mark all boots to take a foot and ring slot to get them to show? I know this could create an oddity of people running around without boots and wearing three rings but if it works it might be a more... elegant fix than some of the others I've seen. It would take an arse load of work in the CS to pull off but if it works I'd try it. Right now I'm working on getting a particular animation to work (I really suck at animations) with nifskope so can't really be bothered to try this at the moment.

 

But if it could theoretically work I'd give it a shot. I don't know how to set how many rings or jewelry can be set to be worn by the player though. Any help on that?

 

Any other suggestions? For this fix I really am all ears as it is personally driving me nuts!

[jamochawoke]

I figured something out just now and tested it. It's not in any way an elegant fix but it works (causes some problems that really go against my modding ethics though). I would however, really want something else to work with, like an ini fix or a script..

 

If there is an ini setting I would seriously love to know!!!!!

[Skevitj]

I figured something out just now and tested it. It's not in any way an elegant fix but it works (causes some problems that really go against my modding ethics though). I would however, really want something else to work with, like an ini fix or a script..

 

If there is an ini setting I would seriously love to know!!!!!

 

I'll have a quick look in oblivion.ini, my guess is that its a bool variable, hence if it's possible to do an ini fix, there will be a b*=0 or something like that. Start with bool, if that turns up nothing it could be an int (starts with i). Have a look at:

http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Category:Settings

The f's and s's can be safely ignored.

 

Using more rings, and adding ring dependance to shoes is probably the neatest way for now. Besides, wearing 3 rings isn't exactly immersion or game breaking (there are much easier ways to do it). If the armor in question is unique to the mod, then it's a neat enough fix and shouldn't cause any sort of conflict.

 

Unfortunately messing with this is well beyond the scope of the construction set tools. (Ignoring the ini possibility) I don't see how it could be improved without adding at least an OBSE dependance. OBSE isn't bad though. I only just started using it recently; it's dead easy to install and operates invisibly, got great community support (in terms of acceptance and help) and it's ridiculously usefull. I know where you're coming from; I try and have my mods rely on it as little as possible, sometimes you don't have a choice though.

[triveck]

Ok, while working on my Mod, Vanilla Drops, where it increases the Vanilla gameplay by seamlessly adding things to the game world that are extremely subtle but appreciable I've run across a problem. I've already emailed a few of the animation people I know of that do mods for Oblivion but haven't gotten any responses for quite a few days now. Perhaps someone on the forums here can help me out.

 

When using a kick I got from Seph's hand to hand animation replacer mod resource (I am also using 3rd person animations in 1st person mod which allows me to really add any 3rd person ani [altho I've found some have clipping issues with camera] to the game) I notice that feet from the kick will display when wearing "one piece" armors like Arena Raiments or Dark Brotherhood gear. However, I have also noticed that the feet WILL NOT display when wearing any multi-piece armors. I have been told that the game engine for some reason does not render feet except for the oddity of one piece armor sets. Here are some screenshots from my testing save file:

 

Wearing the Arena Raiment:

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2591/screenshot2dh.jpg

 

Wearing complete Leather Set (I'm doing a kick I promise!):

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9941/screenshot3xr.jpg

 

 

I was looking for a workaround for this and found this:

 

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13426

 

However, you will note that what that mod does is simply make EVERY armor in the game a one piece suit and puts them for sale in the Imperial City. This, to me; and especially for my mod's goals, is really a terrible workaround to get feet to show. I have been pondering another workaround for this for quite some time. I found Loup's immersion beta which forcibly adds a floating body to 1st person view although it's extremely buggy and requires OBSE (I'm trying to not use it as OBSE also kind of goes against my mod ethic).

 

I was wondering if any of these fixes might work (please excuse my noobliness in understanding this game's engine, and my horrible understanding of using Blender/ Nifscope):

 

- Take every boot, shoe, or foot armor in the game and load them into Blender; make the boots one-piece armors but the rest of the armor "invisible" like this tutorial: http://www.tesnexus.com/articles/article.php?id=363 but somehow editing it so you can also wear your armor on top? So basically it would look the same but as long as you are wearing boots it would force the game engine to render the feet during a kick animation?

 

- Add "invisible feet" to every armor in the game but make it so that it doesn't take up more than one slot in the CS? Would the invisible feet show or what you are wearing on your foot slot show while doing the kick?

 

If anyone more experienced than I wants to take this on I would be extremely extremely grateful as this is the most annoying thing I have found while modding so far and have been really wracking my brain to figure this out. Also to do my proposed fixes I would basically have to learn Blender and Nifscope from the ground up (all I know is how to change an animation to a certain power attack in Nifscope) and I'm not even sure either of my fixes would work at all.

Does 3rd person anims in 1st person mode work for DMC stylish?

[Skevitj]

Does 3rd person anims in 1st person mode work for DMC stylish?

 

I don't know what animations they use, but as we were saying before; The game will try and get away with rendering as little as possible, hence if the animations involve looking at feet or head, they won't be drawn (some other slots as well), no matter if it's using 1st person or 3rd person (animations that is, not view, everything is drawn in 3rd person view).

 

@coke: I had a look, couldn't find anything though. Asking on the dev forums is probably your best bet if it exists. My look wasn't exactly comprehensive.

[jamochawoke]

Thanks a ton for helping me though! Now I at least have a pre-existing thread to bring to the developer forums so they can see exactly what I'm talking about.

[Skevitj]

Thanks a ton for helping me though! Now I at least have a pre-existing thread to bring to the developer forums so they can see exactly what I'm talking about.

 

No problemo... Just make sure you post it up here if you get a response. I can see a lot of people being very interested if there is a neat fix to it. Just seems like one of those common sense things that it should be user change-able.

 

Good Luck