Do You Think Before You Speak!

[SonOfTheDevil]

Whoohoo Stampede! I dont think often enough before I speak, I have a bit of a hot temper. Problem is then I have to start thinking very fast after I spoke! This is why I never joined the debate teams at school.

 

;D Here's a good story. Way back in Jr. High I was head of the School magizine. It had all the new's of the school and Football games and all that good junk, but at the back page there was the free speach section. Well usely every other week I would put my 2 cents in on certain subjects. Now I usely keep my head on straight but when the subject came up about wether or not teachers were respecting students enough I lost my cool. Get this though I didn't name name's or single out anyone. Yet the next day I lost my job.

 

o_O Get ready here's why, I had two different edit's saved to a disk. Well one had my full unedited honest opinion the other was more acceptible for school. I guess being tired and a little lazy I didn't check which edit I used. The next day I got the so called Evil eye >:( from every teacher in the building. All the students though adored my opinion. All though my principal didn't. I Got 16 weeks probation for. Profanity-Misuse of student speach rights-misuse of the computer facilities. Oh and I had to write a 1000 word letter to every teacher apoligizing for my actions. Don't feel sorry for me though, the same room I spent detention in was the same room the cheerleader's practiced in. :D :D :D :D :D

[karkarinus]

;D Here's a good story. Way back in Jr. High I was head of the School magizine. It had all the new's of the school and Football games and all that good junk, but at the back page there was the free speach section. Well usely every other week I would put my 2 cents in on certain subjects. Now I usely keep my head on straight but when the subject came up about wether or not teachers were respecting students enough I lost my cool. Get this though I didn't name name's or single out anyone. Yet the next day I lost my job.

 

o_O Get ready here's why, I had two different edit's saved to a disk. Well one had my full unedited honest opinion the other was more acceptible for school. I guess being tired and a little lazy I didn't check which edit I used. The next day I got the so called Evil eye >:( from every teacher in the building. All the students though adored my opinion. All though my principal didn't. I Got 16 weeks probation for. Profanity-Misuse of student speach rights-misuse of the computer facilities. Oh and I had to write a 1000 word letter to every teacher apoligizing for my actions. Don't feel sorry for me though, the same room I spent detention in was the same room the cheerleader's practiced in. :D :D :D :D :D

 

 

 

This is not a personal attack, and maybe I should think more before posting this, ;) but how did you get to be head of the school magazine with such awful spelling?

 

1 - magazine, 2 - news, 3 - speech, 4 - usually, 5 - whether, 6 - names, 7 - edits, 8 - acceptable, 9 - apologizing, 10 - cheerleaders. And that's without mentioning punctuation! Anyone can make the odd typo, but come on! Sorry, but I hate spelling mistakes! :)

[Malchik]

Karkarinus, you forgot 'although' and 'practised'.

 

Some people are word blind and rely on the computer to correct spelling, not because they are lazy. I do not even know if the poster uses English as a first language although it sounds like it. So please try not to rant in the absence of all the facts.

 

It wouldn't hurt to run the post through a spell-checker if you do have spelling problems, SonOfTheDevil.

 

There have been a lot of cases in the UK of emails being sent to the wrong people by mistake. They have often led to the posters losing their jobs. Some of them were actually pretty funny!

[karkarinus]

Yeah, I missed them :blush: . But I wasn't ranting - merely commenting. SonOfTheDevil previously stated in another thread that he was from Ohio, I think, so I presumed that English was his first language. My appoligees if I was wrong in this assumption.

[loveme4whoiam]

I tend to rely on spellcheckers when writing large amounts of stuff since I have a highly preened Autocorrect list to pick up all my common typos and fat-finger presses. But I do try to look at what I'm typing and read back over a post if I think its important to check spelling. However, I'm prone to grammar slips occassionally (their rather than they're being the most common) because my brain works faster that my fingers and I screw up once in a while.

 

Just to take this debate a little bit off track (THREAD HIJACKING!!! :ohmy:), I had a Sociology exam yesterday on Education. Part of the information for that was a theory put forward by a chap named Bernstein (yay, I remembered :P) about how we speak. Apparently, the middle classes (ostensibly teachers and M/C pupils, although I imagine that exclused PE teachers :P) speak in "elaborated code", which is very complex and explanatory, etc. Not necessarily Queen's English and with a silly accent or anything, but you get the idea. Working class children (and PE teachers :D) supposedly speak in "restricted code" which is very context-relevant and without complexity.

 

What does this have to do with the discussion? Well, I guess I'll ask if, when you speak without thinking, do you regardless of class speak in restricted or elaborate code? Just to do a bit of informal Sociology research to keep all the stuff fresh :D

[Stampede]

appoligees

 

Ahem...I think you mean apologies? ;) :D

 

EDIT: Or...wait...is this subtle humor? (Me and kark always seem to clash with that...)

[Peregrine]

What about debates that do not involve factual evidence, and merely rely on the participants' ability to express their opinions, to defend their beliefs - and acknowledge their opponents' contributions as valid, whether or not they are in keeping with those of your own?

 

My opponent's contributions are never valid. Well, maybe never is too absolute. But 95% of the time, my opponents are completely wrong, and their flawed opinions are about as valuable as a rock. I rarely waste time with debates that aren't based on factual evidence, because they're nothing more than a pointless "well what do you think" discussion where no debate is possible.

 

Of course most of the time when people talk about debates that don't involve factual evidence, they really mean "I disagree with the facts, therefore I'll ignore them." Most of the time it's nothing more than a textbook appeal to ignorance, and I refuse to let it work. There are very few things in this world that can't be decided based on facts.

 

 

How do you fare in verbal discussions when you do not have access to all the facts? The subject comes up, and a spontaneous debate ensues; you have your opinions and the need to express them. Are you as talented and self-confident when 1) you are speaking, 2) you do not have resources to back up your arguments, and 3) the outcome of the debate depends solely on the interlocutors' ability to make others come round to his/her way of thinking?

 

Not as well, because I'm a lot weaker at verbal communication in general. Again, I don't get into debates where I don't know my facts, so if I do get into an argument I don't have any trouble thinking of arguments. I'm just not a very persuasive speaker, regardless of how strong my case is.

[Malchik]

I suspect that there are a great many debates that do not rely upon facts but on opinions and perhaps 'balance of probabilities'. This is because the outcome of any action that involves human irrationality cannot be predicted with certainty.

 

Those debates are not unimportant minor issues either (going to war, changing significant laws etc.) The best one can do is look at historical evidence but that does not mean history will repeat itself.

 

Many of the most important decisions taken during a lifetime are based upon what is most likely to happen rather than fact, and hearing a variety of views and experiences is better than guessing. These are perfectly valid and useful debates. And in such debates 'facts' are often disputed not necessarily as to their accuracy but as to their interpretation. (Global warming comes to mind.)

 

I certainly agree that it helps to be sure of facts before debating but if there is only one interpretation of the facts then there can be no debate. Making a statement when no contrary view is possible is not debating. The real meat of any discussion lies in the conflicting views as to what the facts mean or prove.

[Peregrine]

I suspect that there are a great many debates that do not rely upon facts but on opinions and perhaps 'balance of probabilities'. This is because the outcome of any action that involves human irrationality cannot be predicted with certainty.

 

Those debates are not unimportant minor issues either (going to war, changing significant laws etc.) The best one can do is look at historical evidence but that does not mean history will repeat itself.

 

Balance of probability is still based on facts. Those probabilities don't just appear out of nowhere. Sure, sometimes there's room for interpretation, but most of my debate opponents are just ignoring the facts (whether intentionally or out of stupidity).

 

I certainly agree that it helps to be sure of facts before debating but if there is only one interpretation of the facts then there can be no debate. Making a statement when no contrary view is possible is not debating. The real meat of any discussion lies in the conflicting views as to what the facts mean or prove.

 

It sure doesn't stop people from trying. Just take a look at the 9/11 conspiracy moron we had recently, making a whole pile of science and engineering-related claims that were just simply wrong. There is only one interpretation of the facts (the one I was arguing for), but look how long the debate continued. Or maybe debate isn't the right word? Verbal abuse of the stupid maybe?

[karkarinus]

appoligees

 

Ahem...I think you mean apologies? ;) :D

 

EDIT: Or...wait...is this subtle humor? (Me and kark always seem to clash with that...)

 

 

 

You got it, Stamp - suttle hewmer! ;) ;D