Semi-Open Cities

[Isabelxxx]

Entrance to cities -in vanilla- is something with too many limits for any character who doesn't want to use the main door and salute to the guards.

 

With Open Cities the problem is solved but it adds too many conflicts with other mods and increase the amount of data loaded in memory.

 

 

http://tesnexus.com/downloads/images/17084-1-1210537528.jpg

 

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In fact there is other way to do -aprox.- the same without changing the "world map" and using the standard "city map". This solves the compatibility issues with other mods, the city has not been touched.

 

There are some points to consider in order to have the feel of "open cities":

 

-Full access to cities without consider doors or hour. Doors are still there but now the entrance should be made considering a perimeter.

-Open cities mean open cities but you don't enter to cities through the walls... I don't mind what is behind the wall/door but I want to enter into the city as soon as I walk across the perimeter. (You can "climb" -search other mods- the walls and enter to the city).

-I don't really need to see the NPC's in the World map, only the buildings (aesthetic reasons). No FPS issues.

-Bijective placement: any point of the perimeter used to enter into the city should "transport" you to the appropriate place into the "City map". This only is applied to the borders so there are not issues with anything.

-City maps are not physically changed which is the main point but the "open" system is the same or at least the experience.

 

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The system is easy, see these:

 

 

addictive (Immersive Caves): http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4666

What is it?

 

Immersive Caves is a quick mod I whipped up that hides all the exterior cave/mine doors and adds either automatic entry and exit, or manually activated.

Auto: To use the auto mod, simply walk up to a cave entrance while keeping to the right and you will automatically enter the cave.To exit the cave walk out towards the left.

http://tesnexus.com/downloads/images/4666-1-1195415697.jpg

 

One of those mods that adds ride-able and fly-able objects/creatures: http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=20603

 

http://tesnexus.com/downloads/images/20603-1-1225059107.jpg

 

The second mod is related with the obvious problem. Suppose we apply the "inmersive caves" system:

Every time you physically enter into the perimeter (Over the walls, sewers, doors, ....) the standard "City map" is loaded and you appear in the appropriate place.

 

If we use the broom we could enter into the city shown in the World map or fly in a radius over it without loading the City map. This can be solved easily applying the perimeter into a volume. As soon as you enter in a X-radius -only in the air- the City map is loaded and you are transported to the appropriate place.

 

 

 

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The mod is easy, the only thing needed is the addition of "transport areas" in the perimeter of every city (over the walls, sewers and the air if possible).

Then the same areas to the city map. Any volunteer?

[Skevitj]

I'm imagining the doorway implementation as something similar to the windows in the Bravil Sea Domes house. Basically a hemispherical shell on the otherside of the window, where the image you would see is projected onto the shell as a texture (and you are warped inside when you reach near the doorway). For something that size, gathering the images (from the desired focal point) and working out the nessecary projection would be a real pain (not to mention the texture changing with light levels). Once the method is sorted out, shouldn't be too hard though. It would be a FAR bigger challenge than the small black openings for caves at any rate.

 

Great idea, but I reckon the doorways would look really fake. I don't have a lot of experience with 3D->2D projections, but having a door of that size means the area where it would look normal from outside would be very small (would be glad to be proven wrong though).

 

As for warping into the cities from the air, sounds like mostly a simple maths problem, just aproximate the city walls (exterior and interior needed) into an easily defineable geometric shape and warp the player if their position falls within/outside the boundary. The cities LOD would likely have to be improved though, regardless of distance most aren't designed to be viewed from the air.

 

Removing the doors, and using a dramatically improved LOD around the entrances is probably the easiest method, but having almost-fully detailed building kinda defies the purpose.

[Slawter500]

It's more difficult than you'd think. Possible, but more trouble than it would be worth, or so I'd imagine, I could be wrong though.

[Pronam]

It's not that difficult, but you'll surely be struck on the fact all doesn't always fit and the amount of extra option do complicate/increase the time to create it a LOT.

The doors could be replaced by an invisible ones though.

 

viewed from the air

Haha, I'm not sure what's the point of that in the first place...oblivion wasn't intended to fly through.

If you wanted to add 'climb' possibilities you'd have the enormous FPS problem of making sure every place will allow you to enter the city.

 

the City map is loaded and you are transported to the appropriate place.

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That's a huge task.* the amount of cities

 

No FPS issues.

NPCs aren't the only ones causing FPS drops.

[Skevitj]

Haha, I'm not sure what's the point of that in the first place...oblivion wasn't intended to fly through.

If you wanted to add 'climb' possibilities you'd have the enormous FPS problem of making sure every place will allow you to enter the city.

 

I meant that for most cities only the tallest buildings (chapels) have models. Whereas cities like bruma (skingrad viewed from the castle is another) where you will spend a lot of time observing it from above (cloud ruler temple) have a lot more building models. I'm reasonably sure it would be possible to do the proximity checks only when the player is near, and the only checks which would need to be done are x and y positions. There wouldn't be too severe a processing demand. Less than open cities at any rate.

 

That's a huge task.* the amount of cities

.

 

Amen. It's theoretically possible to create a mapping between the exterior and interior points however that's real heavy maths for oblivion. Even if it could handle it a mapping would need to be created for each city. No-one has that much patience. The imperial city would be the easiest due to the regular walls, but mapping out all of them would be mind-numbing.

 

As far as I see it, the only aspect which could be implemented with any real degree of success (assuming a reasonable time) is opening the cities doors and using proximity to move the player inside, instead of the activator. The only challenge there is to replicate the interior's looks from the exterior. Flying entry could be added, but it's a big task, possible, but big.

[Isabelxxx]

Amen. It's theoretically possible to create a mapping between the exterior and interior points however that's real heavy maths for oblivion. Even if it could handle it a mapping would need to be created for each city. No-one has that much patience. The imperial city would be the easiest due to the regular walls, but mapping out all of them would be mind-numbing.

 

Haha, I'm not sure what's the point of that in the first place...oblivion wasn't intended to fly through.

If you wanted to add 'climb' possibilities you'd have the enormous FPS problem of making sure every place will allow you to enter the city.

 

That's exactly the idea. As I have said I have not the knowledge about modding Oblivion so I'm not sure about what would be the problems related with this method.

 

My point: only add the areas in walls as you/me have said, doors are not something necessary -at least for me-.

My idea is not add any LOD, replacement, .... only the possibility off entering into the city whatever point you are.

 

So my logic tells me that we only need to add the areas to every city (split 10m of wall into 2 areas; we could have 100-200 per city? in the World map, the same are applied in the city map). It requires time but it doesn't imply any major change neither graphical additions.

If the areas are over the walls I suppose that the NPCs will not use them. Not sure if that provokes the FPS problem or only adding the areas is supposed to provoke it.

 

About climb: there is a mod that add that possibility. It's not part of my suggestion, standalone mod.

There is other mod that adds ropes to bows... this is useless in cities unless you have the possibility to enter whatever point you are over the wall or use Open Cities.

 

 

I'm not sure if it can be done or it is really worse than Open cities in FPS terms.

don't suggest to change cities, doors, NPC, LOD, .... only change the Vanilla system for having entrances in walls.

Changing the way you see the ugly cities in the process -as Open Cities- is not the point here.

[Skevitj]

Ok, as far as I see it, what you're after requires you to map out the almost exact coordinates of EVERY exterior wall of every city. As a minimum, they would be checked every frame by a gamemode block, that would cause a huge processing demand, meaning 5fps is probably realistic. To reduce the load, the wall coordinates would have to be simplified to geometric shapes, ie, 5 or so squares to define the boundary of the walls. That would be even more time demanding as it would require the first bit to be done (near-exact mapping). That would reduce the computational load to something realistic, but the time needed to do it even for one city is beyond huge.

 

What you're trying to do would have the low LOD for the cities being the main way the player sees them from the outside. Their detail is terrible for that purpose, so they would need to be improved, or graphics quality is going down the drain. That would create a fps drop whenever you're near a city, meaning the first bit is near impossible given Oblivion's scripting language. I had a quick look at doing the check values for the imperial city's external wall, and my computer wasn't happy. Changing the doors to be open is the only doable part of the request, but would still require significant time even for one door.

 

The number of gamemode checks which need to be run is the real killer. The language isn't designed to handle a load of that type.

[Triaxx2]

Two options. 1) Redesign the cities from the ground up. straighten the walls, and then dome the city. 2) Archway doors. No activation needed, just walk in and you load into the city. take anything that sticks over the city wall and make it solid from that point up. Chapels, and spires for example. Then use a flat plain across the top of the city. It really only needs one passage direction from the outside and one from the inside.

 

It's easy and not all at the same time. 2 is easier. One large door in each archway. Use the automatic flag. The roof is possible, but complex. Cause your door to consist of hexagonal panels built over the roof. As you approach the panels, you simply pass through the closest panel and appear on the other side.

 

Of course even a single city is months of work. Skingrad though could work much simpler. Cut the center out and place it in the Tamriel world space, and use automatic doors on the bridges and other entrances. Cuts a huge chunk out of your path as you ride through.