Help?! A few questions about MO -switching from NMM

[ntblood]

What is the NCC archive, or NCC_0_2_2 optional. I can't find an explanation anywhere. They say for MO to install with FOMOD installer windows you have to copy your NCC archive over. I think I already saw those FOMOD windows during mod installations within MO.

Seeing there is still a 255 limit on plugins I wonder how to make a bashed patch if the mods that would be bashed aren't even seen by WryeBash.

MO is warning me about some files in Overwrites which I don't know what to do about as one is SKSE folder additions from 3 mods.

Also, how can I clean dirty edits with TES5edit when I don't have those mods installed with NMM anymore and they don't display in TES5edit plugin loading screen to check or uncheck and load into the editor?

Under Options in MO I see "import from NMM" when I do that of course it says no mods are installed in NMM which is true and asks if I want to import the mods from NMM's archive which I did but once it's done (I did it twice) I don't see them anywhere in MO (?).
*unless that's them I just see now in MO's download tab in the right side/plugins field of MO.

Edited September 14, 2014 by ntblood

[SoulReaver911]

I can answer some of your questions, but not all.

 

You can run Wrye Bash and TESVedit through Mod Organizer, and it will see all the esps you have installed in MO. When you save in either program, it overwrites the original files that are in each mod folder that you edited. In order to run these programs (and other programs) you have to add them by clicking on the big dialog box near the top right of the MO which has a drop down list. Click edit, and add your program locations. You also have to add SKSE's location too, to even run the game through Mod Organizer :D

 

When MO warns about overwrites, all it's really saying is that HEY! There are two or more mods which have the same exact files, and they overwrite one another in a different order than you have their esps listed in the load order! So, before messing with the order too much on the left side of the screen (which is what the warning is talking about) make sure you have you plugins on the right side of the screen in the correct order first. Then you can order the mods on the left such that they overwrite each other in the manner you prefer.

 

Last thing, I almost always use manual download when downloading from Nexus, but as I understand it, you can use the automatic installer still, you just have to select Mod Organizer as the program that will install it, while you are downloading from your web browser. Seriously though, if all else fails, manual downloads have always work. You just have to make sure that when you add a zip file through mod organizer, that you have the data level set correct, which it will ask you to do in the dialog that pops up when trying to install. (This is because most people package their mods in different ways, and Skyrim needs the data to be uniform, that is the folder "Data" needs to be the top level.)

[ntblood]

I have about 25 plugins that I had installed when running NMM that I'd like to install but I seem to be hitting a wall where I can't get the game to run with any more even though I'm well below the 255 limit now. I haven't been changing the LO manually at all and I just set up reproc and sum to run in MO but I haven't been able to add reproc plugin in quite yet.

When I run Wrye Bash it puts the unchecked esp's into the overwrite folder as ghosts files. What do I do with these files if I still don't want them enabled? And more importantly know to me, when I re-enable them in Wrye Bash how do I know what MO-mods folder to put them into if they have a different name (I have about 6 from rolling back a bashed patch that I don't know where to return them to).

I've heard some people say to run FNIS then LOOT, rebuild bashed patch, run SUM and or ReProccer Java Tools. But then I've heard others say that FNIS should be run last. What do you think?

When I run SUM or ReProc it also makes 2 folder "SUM" and "T3nd0_Reproccer" folders in the overwrite folder, within a subfolder called "SkyProc Patchers". Should I create a mod with that as well from the overwrite folder? And if so, should there be one mod for each folder "SUM" and "T3nd0_Reproccer"?

I'm attracted to MO but it's starting to make me think twice about just returning to NMM that when I add reproccer, and bashed patch, not to mention nearly any of my last 25 plugins with MO that the game crashes loading a new game.

I just was trying to build a bashed patch again and wrye bash ghosted all of my esp's! so now I feel that my entire installation of 250 mods in MO was trashed and I think is virtually messed up beyond repair.

After I decided to go back for the time being to not using a bashed patch or reproccer so the game will work for the moment, I re-enable the plugins that were in the bashed patch using Wrye Bash and the ghost files in the overwrite folder become active esp's again but how do I know where to put them back into the proper MO>mods folder when some have different names than the mod?

Edited September 18, 2014 by ntblood

[ntblood]

I just was trying to build a bashed patch again and wrye bash ghosted all of my esp's! so now I feel that my installation of 250 mods in MO is virtually messed up.

My major problem now is when I re-enable all 200+ esps that are ghosted in Wrye Bash now I have to manually place each one back in it's MO mods folder! Many esp's don't have the same name as the mod. Wrye bash ghosting everything makes it a pain to repair because of the way MO keeps mods separate and lets Wrye bash move files to it's overwrite folder. I don't even know where many go because they have a different name than it's original mod folder. Drag and drop 250 plugins individually if I know where they go. With MO I can't even get in the last 25 plugins when I'm well under 255 active plugins.

Edited September 18, 2014 by ntblood

[SoulReaver911]

With the extra 25 .esps enabled, is the game crashing on startup, or when you load a save file? This may sound redundant, but either way, make sure you're actually running LOOT every time you install a mod (or after multiple mods), and make sure that you are running it through Mod Organizer, otherwise it won't be changing anything. Even if you run LOOT outside of MO and it actually finds plugins to reorder, that doesn't mean that you changed the load order within MO, as it has it's own load order cache.

 

Now If the game is crashing on startup, there's usually two ways it happens, either it just outright quits, or it has a windows crash report.

 

If it outright quits, then one of the many mods you're using is missing a master, and this should be evident if it's the case, as MO will have a red triangle in the load order next to esps that are missing a master.

 

If it has a windows crash error, then one of those many mods, may be installed correctly.

 

Here's my suggestion if the last one is the case. NMM, and other mod installers of the past, are dirty because it's hard to cleanup the mods after installing them. Mod Organizer keeps everything that can go in the Skyrim\Data in a virtual location. With NMM, you need to uninstall everything first, or just completely wipe NMM, and your Skyrim install off the harddrive, and start again. It's an annoying process, but that's the point of using MO. MO makes this process more feasible, because next time you come across this problem you're having, you won't have to go through so much trouble cleaning it up. Even with a single mod install, MO is so much cleaner, as it doesn't affect the folders of other mods, it just overwrites them in the order you tell it to on game load (which is temporary and doesn't overwrite files on the hard drive.)

 

So simply put:

 

1. make sure all programs are up-to-date

2. make a clean Skyrim install after the mess NMM left behind,

3. reinstall all your zipped mods individually in MO,

4. check which mods and esps you want to use,

5. order with LOOT in MO,

6. Manage your mod order (which is different from .esp order) on the left side of the screen and then

7. run Skyrim, or SKSE through MO.

 

All other steps with other programs can be taken after this.

 

 

Now if it's your save game that is crashing, and you're sure that the actual Skyrim\Data folder is clean, and you've double checked everything I've mentioned so far, then use SaveTool. http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/52363/?

 

This program needs to be run inside MO as well, and it is capable of getting rid of scripts that can cause save game crashing. I've used it many a time to save a game that others would have given up on.

 

Wrye Bash has never done to me what you describe, and I've only ever used it to bash patch, so I'm not sure what the problem is. But I can tell you, it's safe to not use it until you get everything else working. Don't worry about the bashed patch until you've got everything else working.

 

I'm also unfamiliar with SkyProc and SUM, so I can't help you there either.

 

Now about the overwrite, folder - it may be helpful for you to put the loose files that SUM, SkyProc, and FNIS make into their own "mod". I suggest keeping them in the same "mod" folder if you do. The upside to this is that you can disable all those loose files or update them manually without the aforementioned programs overwriting them automatically next to you run them, but otherwise it is unnecessary for the functionality of MO, it's more a cleanliness issue.

Edited September 18, 2014 by SoulReaver911

[ntblood]

I uninstalled all my mods with NMM before switching to MO and did a complete wipe of my game and started over 5-6 days ago so I think I'm good there. I did just realize that I hadn't placed an SKSE.ini file in Data>SKSE. I just did that so I hope that will help the fact that I couldn't seem to install the last 25 of my 250 plugins. I was only trying to start new games every time. So what it was doing before wrye bash glitched out making a bashed patch with 6 esp's and ghosted all 250 esp's and placed them in my overwrite folder which I'm undoing one at a time now ;P It was crashing when I would add just one more esp of almost any type after I selected start a new game and clicked Ok to the popup message about SkyRe being re-installed, just before character creation came up or I got into the gameworld. I didn't had any errors listed in MO's plugin list on the right panel each time.

Wrye Bash has done that to me twice (ghost All esp's) but this time was with MO with is much worse because they get displaced from their folders in MO and I have to put each one back manually. Someone posted to disable all plugins within MO except those you want to bash. That could avoid this random occurrence I suppose.

My merged esp's from before switching to MO I just threw into my Data folder because MO won't seem to install them. Is that an Ok way to deal with my couple of merged plugins?

About the overwrite folder. I have been creating an FNIS mod after I run it. I got that also removing them from the overwrite folder makes it so it doesn't have preference over all files but I'm not sure if that matters much. Wouldn't the programs overwriting what is in the overwrite folder be the same as updating them? So I'm not sure why having to manually update them is an advantage unless it protects something.

I actually have SUM and ReProccer installed like mods into MO. I heard that wasn't necessary but is it alright to have it that way, can be checked in MO? I don't have reproccer enabled in the LO currently.

Oh, happy day. On my previous LO backup in MO the game started up well, the first time since Wrye Bashed wreaked havok on my 230 esp's, moving them to overwrite. So I can say my game is somewhat working although I still have 30 esp's to add which even a few more will break the game for some reason. I have yet to introduce my reproccer & sum (also bashed patch) working in game.

Should I run FNIS before and after LOOT? I have no idea how to sync my new fnis mod made from the overwrite folder so I always just delete the previous one. I'd rather sync them but when I choose that option I have no idea what to do with the menu that comes up.

I really think I might have found my problem. I just swapped out 5-6 esp's that wouldn't add earlier for other esp's and the game works. So I'm finding I have to keep at or below 232 active plugins with MO. I was able to get to 255 with NMM but MO other features probably justifies my trimming a few of the mods I can do without. I don't know why I hit that wall of 232 with MO but other people don't seem to.

Edited September 19, 2014 by ntblood

[SoulReaver911]

It's a good idea to go ahead and reinstall all of the SKSE folder if you found even a single file missing.

 

About Wrye Bash, I can empathize with your frustration over what's it's doing, this happened to me when I used a texture optimizing program set to optimize loose files. It moved everything out of their original folders and into the overwrite. But this only seems to be a program dependent occurrence. For instance, with TESVedit, it does replace the .esp when edited, but it keeps it in the original folder that it started in, and only adds back-up .esps to the overwrite, (which are new files of course.)

 

I can say that I have made a bashed patch recently using the latest versions of MO and Wrye Bash (using the installation version which works better in my experience,) and it did not send any files except the new ones that were created to the overwrite folder. It's possible you're using old versions, and because of this it's causing this terrible bug? Also, I don't believe I had Wrye Bash set in any way that would have it change the original .esps, as I only wanted it to make a new bash patch. Are you trying to modify the original .esps through Wrye Bash, or just trying to make a new bash patch.esp? Also, you might try making a completely fresh bashed patch, instead of updating an old one.

 

For the future, if this happens again, that is if any program moves all your esps to the overwrite folder instead of keeping them in the virtual locations, the easiest way to fix it I've found - is to reinstall the mods it happens to, which you can do by right clicking on it in the left window pane. This will only work if the zips for the mods are in the same placed you originally installed them from.

 

Perhaps there is another option, and that would be to Sync those files with their respective mods (which it should be doing in the first place, but isn't working in your case.) I'm not savvy about this, as I think it's still in-development.

 

Putting overwrite files into their own mod is for the exact reason you describe, to protect it from overwriting something else, and in turn being overwritten. In your case it might be helpful to make 3 separate, albeit temporary if you like, mods for each of the 3 programs you expect to leave files in in the overwrite folder (by running one program at a time and making their mod before running the next), so that you can see if any of them overwrite anything among each other, and if they do, then you know if you need to run those programs in any specific order.

 

About your merged plugins, it would be better to install them through MO, and you can do that by zipping up those esps, and adding them like any other zip file by clicking the top left button in MO. This way you can disable them without having to delete them, or update them if the need arises. (Make sure that MO sees the files in the green when installing! If you think this has happened to any other mod you've installed, you can inspect it by right clicking/information/file tree to insure that anything that is supposed to go in the Data folder is top level.)

 

About having SUM and SkyProc installed through MO - do these programs have files that are supposed to be installed outside the Skyrim\Data folder? (Like SKSE or Wrye Bash or TESVEdit?) If so, then installing them only through MO will not work. So far, MO is only capable of installing mods that add files only to the \Data folder. All other mods (like SKSE, FNIS) must be installed manually, and then you can tell MO where their executables are in the dropdown list near the top right of MO.

 

It's okay to run FNIS after or before LOOT, because the files it makes are not overwritten by LOOT. To update your custom FNIS mod folder, the only way that I think is working currently is to sync it manually, which you can do by double clicking the overwrite folder, highlighting the folders within it, then dragging them to the correct mod folder in the left panel.

 

That is really strange that you hit a wall at 232 plugins. If you still have NMM installed, is it possible that it and MO are conflicting? Maybe NMM is adding enough .esps such that it goes over the cap?

 

If that's not it, maybe Skyrim is hitting the wall because of memory issues? For instance, that SKSE.ini that was missing needs to be set up correctly to allow for memory management. (Make sure you have the latest version, and check out this link for a quick install, and or comparison: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/51038/?)

 

Also, Skyrim.ini and SkyrimPreferences.ini may need to be set up again to suit your computer. Try deleting those two files in \Documents and running the original Skyrim splash screen after validating your game files through steam. I do recall that even just opening the Skyrim splash screen once in a while can resolve the most miscellaneous of problems.

Edited September 19, 2014 by SoulReaver911

[lofgren]

Don't use the ghost feature of Wrye anymore. Just turn it off completely. Instead, open the mod in MO and make the esp optional. It will be removed from your data folder completely.

[ntblood]

Since I've put it together with MO it's starting to work well. I don't know what made it start to work. I though it was that I got rid of iHud, but now I see it's still in.


SoulReaver, thank you very much for the answers. I had the most recent Wrye Bash installer 3.0.5 version, and I uninstalled NMM based on what you said, I don't really need it. I did have the right things in SKSE.INI but good to check, thanks. I think my oversight with SkyrimPrefs.ini and Skyrim.ini was that I was supposed to be editing them from within MO at least to fix an error I started getting about bfloatpoint. It's good to know that I can delete the actual files and let them rebuild if I need to with running the Skryim launcher. I'll try installing the merged esp's through MO by zipping them up. Thanks a bunch.

I'm getting close to having my game settled down and being able to play it.

Edited September 20, 2014 by ntblood

[SoulReaver911]

I'm glad to help, and even happier that you're closer to being able to play the game :-) Happy gaming!