We need to work on this

[Vagrant0]

I don't enjoy most of the bans I give, and in this particular case, I had paused a few times to ask myself if there was some other option. The fact of the matter is that if it was anyone else, it would have been the same. I don't have to like the rules, I don't have to totally agree with all their points, but I do have to enforce them when a report is filed and hope that the person being reported isn't doing something very wrong and has enough sense to use the contact form or otherwise apologize for and explain their actions.

 

As far as this whole incident goes, it's clear that people don't pay attention to the news posts, but they do respond when some high profile member gets punished. While this doesn't necessarily make it good or better, it does help bring the issue to the front and hopefully prevent future incidents. Unfortunately individual messaging only works on an individual basis, and by nature goes unnoticed by others. When the rules changed I had gone around and messaged about 20 users who had uploaded explicit images, and while some did respond with a "good to know", there were some who went on to complain about the change, and others who decided that they would play games to see just what they could get away with. There's an active debate thread, there's been 2 news posts, there's been a few feedback threads, and there's a message when you go to upload an image. While I've also suggested adding a useful diagram to show how much exposure requires what sort of tagging, even this is likely not a solution since it could be misunderstood or or lead to problems of people taking things too literally and finding every way they can to get around those specifics and still be as offensive as they can get.

 

The problem is not that the rules are hard to find or hard to understand, but that everyone has different ideas of what nudity is, and what is acceptable for a public site. Unfortunately this is complicated by many others being more familiar with previously lax rules, and users who are constantly looking to break or bend those rules.

Edited July 10, 2010 by Vagrant0

[evilneko]

Perhaps the warning could be in a slightly different color, larger and different font, and inside a different-colored box, kinda like the way this guy does boxes. I'm looking at it now on my laptop, and I find the text hard to read.

[_frost_]

Several things Vagrant0:

 

Apology - some will never apologize, for a variety of reasons. The language could be an issue, but the important thing is: In some case we have people from a completely different culture.

I can't explain it with all details cause my english is not good enough for complex topics, so I can only say this:

If they think that it was an unfair treatment some will never return.

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The option was to send this person a strike warning intead of an instant ban.

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I know that you're just the executive arm.

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Nudity (&public acceptance) - as you said; everyone has a different point of view regarding this and the exact definition.

Dark0ne himself has used example-images to show what he means.

Some words are not enough, especially in a foreign language.

 

 

_frost_

[Surenas]

Outside the Nexus there is no public discussion in the West on a definition that is at hand for all that have left primary school, if not already much, much earlier. If one really doesn't know what nudity is how is it that one loves to upload precisely this, eh? :teehee:

Wonder why people try to question decisions when e.g. in Germany one has to blanken all sexual characteristics of TES figures already since a year! And over there there was no discussion, if memory serves, not even to some extent... no debate that aimed to water down administrative decisions on the matter... and no such language problems in the likewise multi-cultural game societies... ^^

[_frost_]

Write in English or not at all. Thanks. -Dark0ne

[alex de large]

Hi!

Just read about all these latter bans. *bangs the head on the table*

Now I am hesitating, for I've uploaded an image and do not want to draw a banhammer on my arse.:unsure:

Could anyone please be kind and tell me is this accepted by New Rules or not (set as adult ofc)

I am asking because technically it has no boobs/nipples, genitalia and pubic hair in sight, but on the other hand it is a nude image.

When I was taking it, I tried to angle my character so that all his assets would not be visible and no one would get offended. But now I dunno what to think.

Thanks.

[Eiries]

Could anyone please be kind and tell me is this accepted by New Rules or not (set as adult ofc)

 

It's a beautiful picture, Alex. We'll see what a mod response is. Either way, I have it tabbed to give it a more proper endorsement when I'm done filling this out.

 

I don't see the problem, the notice you agree to clearly states no nudity. Now for people using English as a second language, I don't believe that as a valid excuse, for one you can translate it. Two you need some basic English skills in order to be able to use this site anyhow. The rules are clearly defined, there should be no if or but's about it...

 

Like Dark0ne said, 99% of the time people are banned. If they are civil about it, own up to it and apologize with the expectations that they will not violate it again they are reinstated...

 

What more do you want?

 

A: Looking at the Rules and Strikes page, 99% of people are not coming back, and I doubt it's completely due to lack of civility. That warning notice and checkbox has been there since the original "no pornography" clause and I'm sure a lot of people didn't notice the change, especially if they're not English-savvy.

 

I'm not going to wallpost here, but there was a couple times that it was mentioned as to what nudity exactly meant. While it's a valid question, it's not on for this thread.

 

Much of what Frost said in his last legible post was pretty much what I was getting at. For some reason it's too rough to slap someone on the hand with a first and final, and easier to just ban them with the notion that they may come back with an apology.

 

Pushtaku's idea is great and similar to my own as well.

 

The fact of the matter is, good people keep getting banned and if something isn't going to change, this will keep happening. I don't care how you do it, I just want to see something done. Universal PMs, warning notice, something.

 

Let me point this out (I apologize in advance, M'Lady.) Let's look at this image posted four days ago. This clearly breaks rules in every way, shape and form. Are you going to ban Slof, one of the most widely known and loved modder and moderator? I truly hope you don't. I'd much rather see you at least talk to her a bit.

 

I don't think issuing first and finals would be that big of a deal. It's a lot easier to warn somebody for a mistake than try to build enough preventative barriers to convince yourself you shouldn't have to.

[myrmaad]

When I was taking it, I tried to angle my character so that all his assets would not be visible and no one would get offended. But now I dunno what to think. Thanks.

 

I think that's fine.

[evilneko]

Let me point this out (I apologize in advance, M'Lady.) Let's look at this image posted four days ago. This clearly breaks rules in every way, shape and form. Are you going to ban Slof, one of the most widely known and loved modder and moderator? I truly hope you don't. I'd much rather see you at least talk to her a bit.

 

I don't think issuing first and finals would be that big of a deal. It's a lot easier to warn somebody for a mistake than try to build enough preventative barriers to convince yourself you shouldn't have to.

 

That's the kind of image I think the adult flag alone (which it does have) should be sufficient for. There's nothing sexual about it. But that's not the way the rules are worded.

 

Thing is, if Slof isn't banned, that shows the wrong kind of double-standard (mods should be held to a higher, not lower standard), and IMO members previously banned who haven't reacted with curse words (or at all) should be unbanned and invited back.

 

As an aside, damn but there's a lot more adult pics on the TES supporter image share, heck a lot more images period. The FO3 side's nothing compared to that.

[Eiries]

Thing is, if Slof isn't banned, that shows the wrong kind of double-standard (mods should be held to a higher, not lower standard)...

 

Maybe, but more likely the situation was simply that nobody reported it. Quite a few slip through because nobody reports them.