Cobl and wrye bash

[Tomlong54210]

If you add a third mod to overwrite your mod's changes, then Bash should import the factions. Most mods are not import-and-deactivate mods. You should not have to deactivate your mod to have the changes imported. They just need to be overwritten by something, such that the changes do not show. In the case of a deactivated plugin, of course, the changes don't show (can't win) because the plugin is deactivated; therefore, Bash should import all of its changes (tagged for import.)

Ok, once again I can see it clearer now. I try to summarize it in my own words: When a mod is tagged for "import", Wrye Bash will only import those records that are actually invisible somehow, i.e. either shadowed by some other mod in the load order, or because the whole mod is disabled.

 

This means, if I want to force Wrye Bash to import records from my tagged mod, I have two possibilities:

- place my mod before another mod that redefines the same records

- place my mod at the end, but then I need to disable it.

 

Very strange... though I think I can see the logic.

It's not strange, and that is an odd way of putting it, haha. Instead f saying invisible... The patch's purpose is to import changes that would not be loaded into the game. If they will be loaded into the game, there is no point in the Bashed Patch importing the changes. Your mod does not need to be placed before anything. If your mod overrides another mod, great, your changes go through. If a user happens to be loading another mod that changes something on that same record, that mod should have the proper Bash tags. There is nothing else for you to do. If BOSS or the mod author(s) of the other mod(s) do not add tags to their plugins, that is not your fault. There are many mods with overlapping records, and there are many mods without Bash tags. I would not fret over a compatibility issue for which you are already trying to take the greatest precautions.

[jaime74]

It's not strange, and that is an odd way of putting it, haha. Instead f saying invisible... The patch's purpose is to import changes that would not be loaded into the game. If they will be loaded into the game, there is no point in the Bashed Patch importing the changes.

Yes, I think that this is the part that I have understood after all this struggle with my special faction issue. Now I see clearer what importing is actually ment for, and how Wrye Bash handles it. Though I could have never ever been able to figure this out just by reading the documentation.

 

Your mod does not need to be placed before anything. If your mod overrides another mod, great, your changes go through. If a user happens to be loading another mod that changes something on that same record, that mod should have the proper Bash tags. There is nothing else for you to do.

The only problematic situation that comes to my mind is when another mod changes the same record and is also tagged for import. I guess that the mod loading last will simply win, right? This is what happened in my "experiment". In this case we would have two mods that are both correctly tagged, but still one of them would kill the other in the overlapping record. I had expected that Wrye Bash would merge the (imported) changes of both mods, but apparently it doesn't.

 

If BOSS or the mod author(s) of the other mod(s) do not add tags to their plugins, that is not your fault. There are many mods with overlapping records, and there are many mods without Bash tags. I would not fret over a compatibility issue for which you are already trying to take the greatest precautions.

That's nice to hear! :) I think I should settle this case down after all and lean back for a while. There are probably much heavier compatibility issues out there.

[Tomlong54210]

It's not strange, and that is an odd way of putting it, haha. Instead f saying invisible... The patch's purpose is to import changes that would not be loaded into the game. If they will be loaded into the game, there is no point in the Bashed Patch importing the changes.

Yes, I think that this is the part that I have understood after all this struggle with my special faction issue. Now I see clearer what importing is actually ment for, and how Wrye Bash handles it. Though I could have never ever been able to figure this out just by reading the documentation.

 

Your mod does not need to be placed before anything. If your mod overrides another mod, great, your changes go through. If a user happens to be loading another mod that changes something on that same record, that mod should have the proper Bash tags. There is nothing else for you to do.

The only problematic situation that comes to my mind is when another mod changes the same record and is also tagged for import. I guess that the mod loading last will simply win, right? This is what happened in my "experiment". In this case we would have two mods that are both correctly tagged, but still one of them would kill the other in the overlapping record. I had expected that Wrye Bash would merge the (imported) changes of both mods, but apparently it doesn't.

 

If BOSS or the mod author(s) of the other mod(s) do not add tags to their plugins, that is not your fault. There are many mods with overlapping records, and there are many mods without Bash tags. I would not fret over a compatibility issue for which you are already trying to take the greatest precautions.

That's nice to hear! :) I think I should settle this case down after all and lean back for a while. There are probably much heavier compatibility issues out there.

If the mod is also tagged for import, both changes will be included. Unless, the imported records are the same, there is no "stomping." You should really rebuild a Bashed Patch and look at what changes it merged. That might make it clearer for you. The only exception, since you seem to really have to break things down before you can move on, haha, are the Race record changes. The logic behind those is a bit more complicated. The "stomping" is not as direct for import inventory. Bash does some sort of math, making it so that the greatest change wins or something, I forget, but those are just little details in my opinion.

 

I have spent much time looking at my load order in TES4Edit, and I think you may get some value out of doing the same. You will learn how mods work (and don't work) together more quickly that way, perhaps. That probably depends on the person.

 

 

Happy gaming!

- Tomlong54210

[jaime74]

I have spent much time looking at my load order in TES4Edit, and I think you may get some value out of doing the same. You will learn how mods work (and don't work) together more quickly that way, perhaps. That probably depends on the person.

Yes, I think that after all that I have learned here, I may have overcome the first (and biggest) obstacles! I should "dare" now to dig deeper into it. If only "reading" my full load order in TES4Edit wouldn't be such a terrible amount of work. But I think I'm now hungry for more... ;)

 

Happy gaming!

- Tomlong54210

I wish you the same! Why not try to play my upcoming mod? You may want to give it a chance after all and check whether it kills all your NPC's factions? :laugh: :whistling:

[Tomlong54210]

I have spent much time looking at my load order in TES4Edit, and I think you may get some value out of doing the same. You will learn how mods work (and don't work) together more quickly that way, perhaps. That probably depends on the person.

Yes, I think that after all that I have learned here, I may have overcome the first (and biggest) obstacles! I should "dare" now to dig deeper into it. If only "reading" my full load order in TES4Edit wouldn't be such a terrible amount of work. But I think I'm now hungry for more... ;)

 

Happy gaming!

- Tomlong54210

I wish you the same! Why not try to play my upcoming mod? You may want to give it a chance after all and check whether it kills all your NPC's factions? :laugh: :whistling:

I do not have a working load order yet, but I can certainly try it out for you. Hopefully, the thing will ship, arrive and be built by the end of next week.

 

 

Edit: You do not have to do an exhaustive search through your load order. Just look at the various conflicts and how many of them are resolved through the Bashed Patch. Doing that should also give you insight into how BOSS sorts load orders.

[knightofyourlife]

I started this post for one question because the tutorials on wrye bash and cobl are not any cop at all,

I have gone to link after link that people have sent me telling me that this will explain the programs, but not one of them did.

All they ever did was tell me that I needed to do a thing but never how to do it.

 

Thank you one and all for contributing to this thread it is far far far beter then all the tutorials put to together.

 

I now bookmark this thread.

I have not needed to say much most of the questions I had have been answered and many I did not know I had have also been answered.

 

Thank all for your time

 

Knightofyourlife

 

P.S.

 

Ok so now I know it, Wrye Bash is an essential tool

[jaime74]

Thank you one and all for contributing to this thread it is far far far beter then all the tutorials put to together.

Hi knight,

 

that's good to hear! As you know, I have joined this thread for the same reasons (you actually brought me here), and I have found a lot of answers, as well.

The basic lack of documentation still remains, however. By this, I mean the missing tutorials that really explain how Wrye Bash works, from a human-readable point of view.

Such a tutorial (or whatever we like to call it) would probably have to leave out lots of details and focus on a "Wrye-Bash-for-beginners" level (something like a view from 3000 miles above), and then continue to dig down into more detailed topics.

 

Meanwhile, I am sure that such a tutorial won't exist unless we create it ourselves! The best way to make a complex thing understandable is to let a beginner write down (for other beginners) what he has learned.

I'd probably have the ambition to do it, but (apart from the missing time) my knowledge is far too little right now to find a start.

But I'll think about it. Maybe I'll find the time to summarize my understanding and then post it here for review?

 

Cheers

[knightofyourlife]

Quote

 

The basic lack of documentation still remains, however. By this, I mean the missing tutorials that really explain how Wrye Bash works, from a human-readable point of view.

Such a tutorial (or whatever we like to call it) would probably have to leave out lots of details and focus on a "Wrye-Bash-for-beginners" level (something like a view from 3000 miles above), and then continue to dig down into more detailed topics.

 

Meanwhile, I am sure that such a tutorial won't exist unless we create it ourselves! The best way to make a complex thing understandable is to let a beginner write down (for other beginners) what he has learned.

I'd probably have the ambition to do it, but (apart from the missing time) my knowledge is far too little right now to find a start.

But I'll think about it. Maybe I'll find the time to summarize my understanding and then post it here for review?

 

 

Hi jaime

 

I have spent most of the time reading :) and surprise surprise "learning"!!

"A Bash Tutorial by The beginners"

Well there's the name for it already.

 

As for now I hope this thread continues to be added to because I am using it as a Tutorial.

Great thing is there seems little need for hope as this group of people that populate The Nexus are super cool.

(Q) How mant times do I find the need to say thank you?

(A) Any time I log on to The Nexus.

 

Thank you for your time

 

Knightofyourlife

[Tomlong54210]

Read everything under "Final Setup Steps" in the main menu. A couple more pages for a more detailed explanation of tag usage, plugin context menus, etc. will be added. Merging, as fas as the concept goes, is covered under load order. The Bash ReadMe is actually pretty extensive. Read the version packed with Bash, as the online version is out-dated. You can access the current ReadMe via the (?) in the lower-right corner of Bash's window.

[jaime74]

Read everything under "Final Setup Steps" in the main menu.

Thanks, maybe I missed that. I'll have a look at it tonight!