Best Iron Sights mod?

JDR13 · July 18, 2010

I'm looking for a mod that allows me to aim down the sight. Any tips on which the best all-around mod is for that? I noticed there's quite a few.

asdfzxc · July 18, 2010

I'm looking for a mod that allows me to aim down the sight. Any tips on which the best all-around mod is for that? I noticed there's quite a few.

They all work nicely... for most of the default weapons. Problem is, certain weapons (assault rifles mostly) are set up so they automatically go to ironsights while firing, and if you use a model with different sights it doesn't line up properly anymore. The first problem also occurs with many custom weapons, and the second can only be fixed by just using a whole different set of aiming animations.

ultskeletor · July 18, 2010

...Problem is, certain weapons (assault rifles mostly) are set up so they automatically go to ironsights while firing, and if you use a model with different sights it doesn't line up properly anymore. The first problem also occurs with many custom weapons, and the second can only be fixed by just using a whole different set of aiming animations.

My only experience is with RogueHallow's Iron Sights mod, but do you mean some weapons only go into iron sights positioning while firing? If so, that's a common problem I've seen with weapons added by mods. The fix is to uncheck "Don't use 1st person IS animations" in the GECK. The second problem, sights not lining up properly, is not as easy to fix, though. From people I've talked to here on the forums, you can use altered animations to help fix some weapons. Most of your work, however, will probably be just repositioning the weapon. I do most of it in Nifskope and a little in Blender. Shifting around rotating parts, bolts and revolver cylinders, is going to be your biggest problem (at least, it is for me.) It usually just takes a little time and a lot of Alt+Tabbing to get a weapon lined up properly.

JDR13 · July 18, 2010

So you're basically saying it doesn't work well with mod weapons right?

I don't plan on using any mods that actually add items to the game. So I should be ok, right?

*Edit* Another question: When you fire a weapon in normal (non-VATS) mode, is there a skill check that determines whether or not you hit the target, or is it simply the aim of the player?

ultskeletor · July 18, 2010

So you're basically saying it doesn't work well with mod weapons right?

I don't plan on using any mods that actually add items to the game. So I should be ok, right?

*Edit* Another question: When you fire a weapon in normal (non-VATS) mode, is there a skill check that determines whether or not you hit the target, or is it simply the aim of the player?

Yes. If you aren't using mods that add any additional weapons, I think you'll be just fine. Note that, at least with RogueHallow's Iron Sights mod, the vanilla weapon models are replaced with slightly modified ones that work well when aiming.

The GECK wiki has articles on many of Fallout 3 engine's various calculations, including how weapon accuracy is determined. To be honest, I don't know exactly how the engine determines whether or not you hit, but I don't think it's a straight up skill check. I know that weapon skill is a major factor in how the game determines your accuracy/spread. The spread is basically like a cone projected out from your weapon; with each pull of the trigger, the projectile will travel outward somewhere in that cone. My understanding is that weapon skill, along with weapon condition, moving vs. still, standing vs. crouching, etc. go into determining the size of that cone. Obviously, you need to be aiming at the target, but even if on-target you can still miss if the shot happens to travel along the outer area of that cone and over the target's shoulder. Similarly, you should still be able to hit if your aim is off but the shot happens to travel along a path that still contacts the target. I don't know what effect the engine's autoaim has on this though.

There are also other things that I haven't yet looked into much, like hitscan projectiles. From reading discussions on the forums here and on the GECK wiki, my understanding of FO3's hitscan projectiles is that the game instantly determines whether the attack hit or miss based on where the shooter and target were the moment the trigger was pulled. On long distance shots, this can, apparently, lead to hits that appear to be misses and misses that appear to be hits.

azron · July 18, 2010

In iron sights it helps your accuracy outside of V.A.T.S. tremendously with weapons that have little to no spread (BB-gun, Pistol, Hunting Rifle, Laser Rifle, Lever Action Rifle) especially at low skill levels.

You will notice the weapon drifts side to side more the lower your weapon skill is, with some weapons this drift has little to no affect on accuracy (Shotgun, Flamer, Tri-Beam Laser Rifle) but with others it makes a huge difference, with the low/no spread weapons, just use real life sight aiming techniques, that is, wait until the front and back sights are lined up before you take your shot and you should hit the target, I personally feel that the Hunting Rifle has the best sight out of all of them, but the Lever Action Rifle/Lincoln Repeater/BB-Gun isn't bad if you pay attention to the nick in the crossbar.

RH_Ironsights Makes such weapons some of your best friends, especially at the lower levels. The Lever Action Rifle if you have Point Lookout becomes excellent later on, uses 10mm and deals Lincoln Repeater level damage, and uses the same sights.

It doesn't really help Assault rifle aiming that much though, between the recoil obscuring the sight (which on both assault rifles suck anyhow, sorry RH) and the spread of the weapon you don't really gain much accuracy shooting 1st/3rd aim/hip it's all pretty much the same, also the Plasma rifle has much more spread than I'd like, the best Automatic sights are on the 10mm SMG, and 5.56mm Carbine (RH mistakenly labeled it an SMG) the H&K MP5 series made compatible for RH_Ironsights also have excellent sights.

I've never noticed any change in spread depending on running/walking/standing/crouching etc or changing depending on the duration of your firing the weapon, so it's not like in the Battlefield games that have the variable crosshairs and muzzle climb, there are no "short controlled bursts" in Fallout 3.

ultskeletor · July 19, 2010

...I've never noticed any change in spread depending on running/walking/standing/crouching etc or changing depending on the duration of your firing the weapon...

I only mention them because I saw them here, on the GECK wiki. I've only skimmed the article, but it looks like the game does by default check whether you are running or walking, but that it does not apply a bonus or penalty for doing so (a modifier of '0', if I'm reading that chart correctly. Negative modifiers are good.) I assume modders can change that, if they like. It looks like aiming (iron sights) has a modifier of -0.65 and crouching has a modifier of -0.4. I don't actually know how much of an enhancement that translates to, though.

As far as I know, the bit about your accuracy not degrading on subsequent shots is true, though. I use a recoil mod to compensate.