Unexplained UFO over China

[Vindekarr]

Heres another theory Im going to toss into the mix.

 

We are a very young species, only having had recorded history for a few thousand years. Now, if the K/T event that wiped out the dinosaurs hadnt occured, we might have come about a bit sooner, but look at it this way. Evolution takes time, lots of time. We reproduce pretty rapidly and are evolving at a ridiculously fast rate at the moment, with even some dubious claims of tangible evolution in the last 500 years. Now, if our evolutionary rate is a benchmark. And we havent got faster than light travel yet or any time soon, then where does that put aliens? Even if sentient races existed near us, then if they evolved at a similar rate they could be much more or less advanced than us. I think for the moment the idea of proposterously advanced civilisations like those in warhammer and mass effect arent too beleiveable, because assuming the big bang theory is correct, then they would have to have evolved their species and technology within a very very short period of time indeed.

 

And human scientific voyages are planned years in advance, down to the milimetre with everything done to a very high standard. And thats from a race of bunglers who have single handedly set themselves back so far by killing eachother its almost not funny. Now, to beat us to FTL travel and thus interstellar exploration the theoretical species would need to be a lot smarter than us firstly, a lot more organised, and a goodly amount older. If we, idiots we are, can plan out so many space missions with only a few fatalities. Then why would much smarter and more competant aliens crash on theirs? Because so many sightings are "crashes", yet a race with faster than light travel this early in galactic history would surely not be THAT stupid...

[LSF894]

It wouldn't surprise me if it was a rocket of some sort that they're testing, or some new sort of aircraft they're testing. That wouldn't surprise me one bit. But the trail just looks odd. It looks a bit like some sort of natural thing in the atmosphere, like an aurora or something like that. An odd looking one at that. I haven't got a clue. I personally think it's arrogant to think we're alone in this huge universe, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if there was something else out there. But this is just odd.

[Keanumoreira]

Heres another theory Im going to toss into the mix.

 

We are a very young species, only having had recorded history for a few thousand years. Now, if the K/T event that wiped out the dinosaurs hadnt occured, we might have come about a bit sooner, but look at it this way. Evolution takes time, lots of time. We reproduce pretty rapidly and are evolving at a ridiculously fast rate at the moment, with even some dubious claims of tangible evolution in the last 500 years. Now, if our evolutionary rate is a benchmark. And we havent got faster than light travel yet or any time soon, then where does that put aliens? Even if sentient races existed near us, then if they evolved at a similar rate they could be much more or less advanced than us. I think for the moment the idea of proposterously advanced civilisations like those in warhammer and mass effect arent too beleiveable, because assuming the big bang theory is correct, then they would have to have evolved their species and technology within a very very short period of time indeed.

 

And human scientific voyages are planned years in advance, down to the milimetre with everything done to a very high standard. And thats from a race of bunglers who have single handedly set themselves back so far by killing eachother its almost not funny. Now, to beat us to FTL travel and thus interstellar exploration the theoretical species would need to be a lot smarter than us firstly, a lot more organised, and a goodly amount older. If we, idiots we are, can plan out so many space missions with only a few fatalities. Then why would much smarter and more competant aliens crash on theirs? Because so many sightings are "crashes", yet a race with faster than light travel this early in galactic history would surely not be THAT stupid...

 

Look, I agree with Vagrant0 that yes, intelligent, alien life is very slim, but there is also a very good chance that they exsist. First of all, I'm not just talking about life in general in this galaxy, just because we can't hear their radio waves or see any suspicious activity doesn't mean they aren't here or in another galaxy. Our astronomy equipment is still primitive compared to what it could be so how could we see suspicious activity in others systems if we can't see what the surface of another planet looks like outside of our solar system. And listening for radio waves isn't a sign of no intelligent life around us. Our radio waves, and most likely the ones emitting from alien civilizations would die out before they would reach us or them. Radio waves can travel up to a distance of five light years, that's it, so that isn't proof.

 

But what I really want to prove is that just life exsists beyond our planet. When most people think of this, they think of aliens flying around stars and stuff, but that's not the case. I'm talking about microbes, animals, and sea life, isn't that believable? Think of the Trillions of stars we have in this galaxy alone. Now think of the other trillions in the other trillions of galaxies. The chances are very, very, very good that we are not alone. If that's not proof enough, there is really good, supported evidence that Sol, our solar system, once had three garden worlds, which included Venus (Before volcanism was thought to be its death nail), Earth, and Mars.(The leading theory is that a planet smashed into it, creating a crator that takes up more that 25% of its surface which would have ended life.) When people think of life, they don't think of the whole picture. Yes a planet like Earth isn't easy to find, but then again, it really isn't that hard to create. Our universe is a little more forgiving then we think.

[Vagrant0]

There is one simple problem with that. If life is so common in the universe, and intelligent life is also common, why visit us? You can't maintain that assumption that humanity is special if you also maintain that assumption that there are countless other worlds out there which are filled with complex life. Even when you have unlimited resources, you still tend to prioritize activities based on things which are more practical for the resources which are used. A 40 year journey across the stars to go to some insignificant blue planet, just to abduct Billy-Bob, or even buzz around some of the cities doesn't make sense, in any light, human or non. Meaning that either they don't make that particular journey, instead opting to remain closer to those more interesting nearby stars, or they make that journey and actually do something more meaningful with it. Even if first official contact is little more than a "Hey, we're just passing through, big universe out there you know... Anyway, you're not alone, keep trying to work together and try not to kill yourselves in the process. Can't stop to share any knowledge with you, you understand, but my mere presence here should prove enough for you to figure out on your own. Don't kill yourselves now. Toodles." it would have rather profound and important implications, and be both more worthwhile to any visitor and more worthwhile to any who experienced the visitation.

 

Instead however we have seemingly random occurrences of even more random people being visited, probed, and dropped back where they were without so much as a "Sorry for shoving a meter long probe up your rectum, taking samples of your DNA, impregnating you (we were kinda out of it that time... you know how it is), implanting devices beneath your skin, cutting off and re-attaching your arm (oh wait, you weren't supposed to know about that one), and giving you a story made up on the spot so that you were OK with us doing all this stuff to you.". Even if 1/50th of what UFO culture says has happened is what actually happened, aliens look less like an intelligent galactic race, and more like a bunch of kids with super science buzzing around to have their fun tormenting a lesser species.

[Keanumoreira]

There is one simple problem with that. If life is so common in the universe, and intelligent life is also common, why visit us? You can't maintain that assumption that humanity is special if you also maintain that assumption that there are countless other worlds out there which are filled with complex life. Even when you have unlimited resources, you still tend to prioritize activities based on things which are more practical for the resources which are used. A 40 year journey across the stars to go to some insignificant blue planet, just to abduct Billy-Bob, or even buzz around some of the cities doesn't make sense, in any light, human or non. Meaning that either they don't make that particular journey, instead opting to remain closer to those more interesting nearby stars, or they make that journey and actually do something more meaningful with it. Even if first official contact is little more than a "Hey, we're just passing through, big universe out there you know... Anyway, you're not alone, keep trying to work together and try not to kill yourselves in the process. Can't stop to share any knowledge with you, you understand, but my mere presence here should prove enough for you to figure out on your own. Don't kill yourselves now. Toodles." it would have rather profound and important implications, and be both more worthwhile to any visitor and more worthwhile to any who experienced the visitation.

 

Instead however we have seemingly random occurrences of even more random people being visited, probed, and dropped back where they were without so much as a "Sorry for shoving a meter long probe up your rectum, taking samples of your DNA, impregnating you (we were kinda out of it that time... you know how it is), implanting devices beneath your skin, cutting off and re-attaching your arm (oh wait, you weren't supposed to know about that one), and giving you a story made up on the spot so that you were OK with us doing all this stuff to you.". Even if 1/50th of what UFO culture says has happened is what actually happened, aliens look less like an intelligent galactic race, and more like a bunch of kids with super science buzzing around to have their fun tormenting a lesser species.

 

Who knows why aliens would come to our planet. Perhaps they just developed intergalactic travel and are searching for other forms of life, maybe they are running out of resources only a planet like Earth can supply (For example, signifigant sources of water, or an easy species to enslave), or maybe they just love to travel. Asking why would they come here isn't good enough to mask the possibility. And I'm not saying that Earth would be the special planet, it could happen to a million others, but if this is happening, and chances are it is, then it will only be a matter of time...

[Vagrant0]

Who knows why aliens would come to our planet. Perhaps they just developed intergalactic travel and are searching for other forms of life, maybe they are running out of resources only a planet like Earth can supply (For example, signifigant sources of water, or an easy species to enslave), or maybe they just love to travel. Asking why would they come here isn't good enough to mask the possibility. And I'm not saying that Earth would be the special planet, it could happen to a million others, but if this is happening, and chances are it is, then it will only be a matter of time...

Not to shatter your dreams or anything...

 

1). Intergalactic travel denotes having mastered Galactic travel, and based on all those nifty formulas related to the chances of intelligent life being out there, after having explored their own Galaxy, they have probably had enough business in dealing with other forms of life. And again, that's an extremely long way to go for something you didn't even know exists. Even within our own galaxy, the earliest radio signals made by man have only just managed to reach about a dozen of the closest stars. To put it in perspective, it's like picking a random longitude and latitude off the top of your head, down to the exact foot, flying there first class, and expecting to meet your soul mate at that exact spot the moment you reach it. While the chances might be reasonably high if your exact coordinates were fortunate enough to land in an urban setting, you have a much better chance of ending up in the middle of the ocean, desert, mountains, or plains without anyone else around you for miles. Same premise. That little annoying bit about traveling faster than light is that you can't actually see where you're going, and therefore have to calculate everything in advance and hope that your readings and calculations about the destination are valid. The greater the speed, the greater the distance, and the greater number of things which lie, or would otherwise exist between the two at any point in time, the more complicated the calculations. Meaning that travel between galaxies would imply either very extensive knowledge of the movement of damn near everything in that galaxy (rather hard to do when every bit of information you have is a few million years old), or just not trying to end up in any specific place.

 

2).Any race which has mastered space travel to a point that it can reliably travel between stars has likely developed to the point where it can manage its own resources, or otherwise collect them with relative ease. Although the Earth has water, there is plenty more water floating around in asteroid belts or zipping around the sun. And according to those wonderful formulas, if it is abundant in this miniscule part of the galaxy, chances are that it is also abundant in many other parts of the galaxy, and probably won't have a few ants that would need to be stepped on to get it.

 

3).As history around the subject is proof, Humanity make rather poor slaves. We aren't particularly strong, smart, resistant, or obedient. Even at the risk or torture or death, human slaves tend to do mediocre work at best, and usually die shortly after. Any race which has become able to traverse the stars would undoubtedly have automation or robotics, or even bio/nano technology well enough in-hand to fill any demands for labor. And, even as food goes, we really aren't much designed for that either given that whole bit of survival of the least tasty.

 

4).A matter of time only matters when you are talking about sometime between now and when we either manage to leave this planet ourselves under our own power, or manage to kill ourselves off through war, pollution, disease, or any combination of the three. Given how we don't have enough non-renewable energy to last more than 100 years at the current consumption, and seem determined to squabble over a few pieces of land, that window of "a matter of time" having any particular importance is really only about the next 80-140 years or so.

 

All that aside, the only real thing we might offer another race is actually our genetics, in that, atleast as far as this particular world goes, we're reasonably well suited. And that is only useful if that particular race happens to be desperate enough to try and colonize this world as an outpost, has not yet figured out terraforming, and doesn't mind forever polluting their own genetic legacy with ours. Beyond that, the only other reason anyone would want to visit this miserable tiny marble of ours is if they themselves are refugees from a dying world and are looking to get any help they can from another dying world in exchange for sharing information related to technology which, in itself is also borrowed. In which case, we might be best off just telling them where to shove it, and explaining the concept to fit whatever anatomy they might have.

 

None of these situations however would seem to involve probing, abductions, or trying to hide their presence.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Vagrant0

[Keanumoreira]

Who knows why aliens would come to our planet. Perhaps they just developed intergalactic travel and are searching for other forms of life, maybe they are running out of resources only a planet like Earth can supply (For example, signifigant sources of water, or an easy species to enslave), or maybe they just love to travel. Asking why would they come here isn't good enough to mask the possibility. And I'm not saying that Earth would be the special planet, it could happen to a million others, but if this is happening, and chances are it is, then it will only be a matter of time...

Not to shatter your dreams or anything...

 

1). Intergalactic travel denotes having mastered Galactic travel, and based on all those nifty formulas related to the chances of intelligent life being out there, after having explored their own Galaxy, they have probably had enough business in dealing with other forms of life. And again, that's an extremely long way to go for something you didn't even know exists. Even within our own galaxy, the earliest radio signals made by man have only just managed to reach about a dozen of the closest stars. To put it in perspective, it's like picking a random longitude and latitude off the top of your head, down to the exact foot, flying there first class, and expecting to meet your soul mate at that exact spot the moment you reach it. While the chances might be reasonably high if your exact coordinates were fortunate enough to land in an urban setting, you have a much better chance of ending up in the middle of the ocean, desert, mountains, or plains without anyone else around you for miles. Same premise. That little annoying bit about traveling faster than light is that you can't actually see where you're going, and therefore have to calculate everything in advance and hope that your readings and calculations about the destination are valid. The greater the speed, the greater the distance, and the greater number of things which lie, or would otherwise exist between the two at any point in time, the more complicated the calculations. Meaning that travel between galaxies would imply either very extensive knowledge of the movement of damn near everything in that galaxy (rather hard to do when every bit of information you have is a few million years old), or just not trying to end up in any specific place.

 

2).Any race which has mastered space travel to a point that it can reliably travel between stars has likely developed to the point where it can manage its own resources, or otherwise collect them with relative ease. Although the Earth has water, there is plenty more water floating around in asteroid belts or zipping around the sun. And according to those wonderful formulas, if it is abundant in this miniscule part of the galaxy, chances are that it is also abundant in many other parts of the galaxy, and probably won't have a few ants that would need to be stepped on to get it.

 

3).As history around the subject is proof, Humanity make rather poor slaves. We aren't particularly strong, smart, resistant, or obedient. Even at the risk or torture or death, human slaves tend to do mediocre work at best, and usually die shortly after. Any race which has become able to traverse the stars would undoubtedly have automation or robotics, or even bio/nano technology well enough in-hand to fill any demands for labor. And, even as food goes, we really aren't much designed for that either given that whole bit of survival of the least tasty.

 

4).A matter of time only matters when you are talking about sometime between now and when we either manage to leave this planet ourselves under our own power, or manage to kill ourselves off through war, pollution, disease, or any combination of the three. Given how we don't have enough non-renewable energy to last more than 100 years at the current consumption, and seem determined to squabble over a few pieces of land, that window of "a matter of time" having any particular importance is really only about the next 80-140 years or so.

 

All that aside, the only real thing we might offer another race is actually our genetics, in that, atleast as far as this particular world goes, we're reasonably well suited. And that is only useful if that particular race happens to be desperate enough to try and colonize this world as an outpost, has not yet figured out terraforming, and doesn't mind forever polluting their own genetic legacy with ours. Beyond that, the only other reason anyone would want to visit this miserable tiny marble of ours is if they themselves are refugees from a dying world and are looking to get any help they can from another dying world in exchange for sharing information related to technology which, in itself is also borrowed. In which case, we might be best off just telling them where to shove it, and explaining the concept to fit whatever anatomy they might have.

 

None of these situations however would seem to involve probing, abductions, or trying to hide their presence.

 

Don't worry your not, I just love a good, friendly debate. :D

 

I understand what your saying Vagrant0, but not all of it adds up.

 

1. We can't base our technology on the assumption of alien technology. We have no idea if they use scouts (Unmanned of course) or possibly other alien lifeforms to map certain parts of the galaxy and can find safe routes around the stars. They could also have detectors that can find even the slightest movement through space, or have sheilds to protect them from high speed dust which could turn their Spacecraft into swiss cheese. And for the second part, you know very well that in 1492, Columbus and a few other Spanish/Portuguese sailors (But that's a debate for another time. LOL.) decided to try and circumnavagate the globe to find a searoute to Asia. They went all that way having no idea if the sea would swallow them, or if they would fly off the Planet like most people believed in that day. He took a massive risk, so why wouldn't a few hardy aliens who are just as ambitious as todays explorers, hikers, and sea tamers do the same to uncover that great unknown?

 

3. A. Maybe they can't find/ don't use metal.

B. I never said they were smart. ;D Maybe they were just like the Aztecs, who found as many slaves as they could (In this case whatever species they could find) and work them to death to satisfy both their Civilization and their border needs. Simply speaking, just because they are civilized doesn't mean their not barbaric too. An oxymoron I know.

[SilverDNA]

I think I'm having some kind of deja vu reading all this here....

....sound similar to this topic : Did aliens play a role in human civilization?

 

I believe mainly in science and if the phenomena isn't in the grasp of science, then science isn't on the proper eye level of understanding the phenomena.

[Keanumoreira]

I think I'm having some kind of deja vu reading all this here....

....sound similar to this topic : Did aliens play a role in human civilization?

 

I believe mainly in science and if the phenomena isn't in the grasp of science, then science isn't on the proper eye level of understanding the phenomena.

 

Partly yes, but this is just a mini debate within the debate, so we are still firmily within the original question.

[Surenas]

I think I'm having some kind of deja vu reading all this here....

....sound similar to this topic : Did aliens play a role in human civilization?

 

I believe mainly in science and if the phenomena isn't in the grasp of science, then science isn't on the proper eye level of understanding the phenomena.

 

Partly yes, but this is just a mini debate within the debate, so we are still firmily within the original question.

 

That's the moment when the circular argumentation begins and the known merkabah / ufo stuff turns out to be nothing but a religious backdoor for the faithful.

Gosh, the flying throne chariot theme is as old as ages and I guess we've already shot down a vast number of these flying objects since the days of Ezekiel... with the customary fly flap, unwittingly of course, but that goes without saying.

You must believe in whatever makes you happy.