The Tea Party

[krimzin]

Has anyone here seen Pearl Harbor(The James Cameron movie, not the Harbor itself)? FDR had to work hard to convince the country to go to War.If I am not mistaken, I think the opposition is making an argument by stating that he used a war to mend an ailing economy. Regardless of his methods, America had become the most affluent country on the planet. Obama on the other hand already has two wars to contend with, in that respect, he is more comparable to Truman than FDR. Instead of Communism, he has terrorism(or Islamic extremism). Unfortunately, unlike Truman, he can't use atom bombs to quickly end two wars.

 

Lol except in this situation, the great depression is happening after the war. Or during it, however you please. Regardless, it's a very ugly situation we're in. I don't trust Obama, but I still pity him for having to take responsibility for this mess.

[grannywils]

@grannywils

Though you claim to confine your argument to FDR, Obama is included in the comparison. i am willing to concede that FDR had enormous internal problems to deal with and even though I do not approve of his eventual methodology he was in the top half of qualitative presidents mainly due to his handling of the Second World War.

But Obama has achieved very little of his proposed campaign platform, this is akin to his ill deserved Nobel Peace Prize.The left is determined to enshrine him regardless of his actual achievements.

First he wanted to have a dialog with Iran and North Korea regardless of their prior bad faith, when this goes south this darling of the media draws no fire.

Second he states that he will close Guantanamo when he cannot find a state that will accept these terrorists again nothing.

Third he stated he would succeed in Afghanistan ( though no one since the days of Alexander the Great has) and he fires the one general that finally managed to gain the confidence of the local groups in country, the press applauds wildly.

Fourth he now has declared premature victory in Iraq, dear god how much more of this incompetence must we accept before it is realized that he is foreign policy challenged?

Thank god there are mid term elections in the near future, I look forward to a realignment of the power structure of the House and the Senate. The Left sees the same possible shift in power which is why they struggle so hard to marginalize the Tea Party.

 

 

Yes, Mr. Obama was included in the original comparison, but since I chose to speak on only one topic I specified Mr. Roosevelt. However, if you like I will try to give you my view on Mr. Obama. However, please don't blame me if this takes awhile.

 

 

I'm not sure if you are suggesting that the Nobel Peace Prize committee is leftist. I know that sometimes (not always) peace proponents are considered to be leftists. I do believe that many conservatives who believe it is often necessary to fight wars, still would prefer peace if they felt it were an option. I realize that you are suggesting that he did not deserve the award, but I guess I'm asking if you believe the Committee to be biased towards the left?

 

You and many others have suggested often that the left, and the media seem to favor Mr. Obama and treat him as if he can do no wrong. Firstly, I disagree, and as I have mentioned before I think it depends on the media outlet you choose. But with respect to his "lack" of achievements of his intended goals: I have also said elsewhere that although I am not 100% satisfied with his administration's success. This is the only administration that has managed to get a health care bill passed ever. Now I already know some of you on the right may be jumping up and down in outrage; but nonetheless, many of us approve. Unfortunately, it took way too long, way too much focus away from other important things, way too much manpower; and they had way too little co-operation from the other side. You may disagree, but the people of this Great Nation wanted a health care bill passed. What we got was a fairly watered down version. And I hold the other side of the aisle responsible for that. That is a conversation for another time.

 

Yes, he said that he wanted to attempt a dialogue with our worst enemies prior to just jumping in without even knowing his enemy face to face. I happen to agree with you that there is true evil in this world; but I cannot fault the leader of our nation for wanting to "know his enemy" and at least having a hope that he could effect some sort of change in attitude. I never believed for one moment that in the cases of North Korea and Iran there was such a hope, but I just cannot accept going in guns ablazin' the minute you get into office just to prove "We're the Man".

 

I believe in the Constitution, and I'm pretty sure that you do too (and probably know it better than I do too). Guantanamo needed to be closed period. Many of the people incarcerated in Guantanamo were proven not to even be terrorists. If it is so important to keep these people somewhere, how about trying out an amendment to the Constitution enabling us to create a nice little legal safe haven for these very dangerous people and then put them on trial.

 

I guess I have to agree with you on Afghanistan. We were already there though, and I guess he figured he had to come up with something. But you're right. He should not have said we would succeed, but we never had a chance. As far as firing the one general who had managed to gain the confidence of the local groups in the country, well again although it might have been a mistake, we just needed not to be there.

 

HE declared a premature victory in Iraq? Gee, that sounds sort of familiar doesn't it?

 

 

I just want to add one more thing regarding the whole media darling issue. I personally have never been one to pay attention to what the media says or doesn't say regarding a political figure, at least insofar as forming my opinions about said figure are concerned. They all make it so obvious that they are biased, whether they lean left or right or are truly neutral that one would hope that a reasonably intelligent human being would be able to formulate an opinion and just pick out the meager facts provided by today's media. However, I recognize, as do you I'm sure, that that is not always the case; and that the media has too much control over what people think. The other unfortunate thing is that people tend to drift toward the media outlet that leans toward what they want to believe anyway. This is even more dangerous!!! The result is that I am beginning to shy away from reading papers, and I only watch or listen to the news anymore on an occasional basis, just to keep my hand in. This may sound scary, but somehow I manage to stay reasonably informed. I do not want to be infiltrated. And trust me, I'm not hearing voices or anything, but I just want to make my own decisions. And one last thing on that subject. If you don't think that GW was the media darling for his first 1 1/2 terms you may be having a selective memory issue. You already know my opinion of Mr. Bush, but the man sat there for, what was it, 11 minutes, while the Twin Towers were falling down. And then he finally shows up and says a few words, and all of a sudden the sun rises out of his nose? Anyway, I've said enough for now. Thank you for the opportunity.

 

 

[ginnyfizz]

Surely, though, there is something seriously weird about a man who has been in office for only two years and who has done beggar all getting a Nobel Peace Prize? I don't say the Nobel Peace Prize Committee is biased to the left, I would say though that they are blinded by the star of the media just the same as everyone else seems to be. In other words, they have been known to be a bit toadyish.

 

Speaking for the media over here in the UK, and the BBC is notoriously left wing, Obama is certainly depicted as the Messiah. I suspect the same idolization really is found in most sections of the US media.

 

Ah, and the healthcare bill. Lovely idea isn't it? I daresay a lot of people did want it. Especially the ones who won't be paying the taxes to support healthcare. Remember, in the UK we are now reaping the whirlwind, so to speak. Our National Health Service was born just after WW2 and it grew, and grew...and got so expensive that now we are facing extra taxes to pay for it because normal income tax can't. For example, elderly care. Imagine you are an elderly person, now retired, who has paid into the NHS all their life, in the expectation that the NHS will take care of you when you become incapacitated. Err...no. The Government is actively considering a compulsory charge of £20,000 on all persons who are property owners, on retirement, meaning that you may well have to sell your house, and then the local authorities will have to house you. So you get taxed twice on your hard earned money AND get to be homeless.

 

You have been warned...

 

I do not doubt that the Tea Party has looked over at this situation over the Brit side of the pond and said, behold, it is not what we want in the USA.

[grannywils]

Surely, though, there is something seriously weird about a man who has been in office for only two years and who has done beggar all getting a Nobel Peace Prize? I don't say the Nobel Peace Prize Committee is biased to the left, I would say though that they are blinded by the star of the media just the same as everyone else seems to be. In other words, they have been known to be a bit toadyish.

 

Speaking for the media over here in the UK, and the BBC is notoriously left wing, Obama is certainly depicted as the Messiah. I suspect the same idolization really is found in most sections of the US media.

The idolization does tend to happen, but it usually happens with whoever is president until later in his/her (we've never had a her yet) term or until there is a really, really big disaster. When Mr. Bush left office and things were in such a shambles (and right or left, everyone pretty much agrees they were in pretty much a shambles), anyone who came in was going to be idolized for awhile. Add to that Mr. Obama's charismatic speaking ability, and his willingness to take on such huge challenges, and there were many who burdened him with this Messiah-like cloak. Personally, I admire him and have always felt that he was just what we needed. But I have always believed that all of this adulation and adoration was totally out of order

 

Ah, and the healthcare bill. Lovely idea isn't it? I daresay a lot of people did want it. Especially the ones who won't be paying the taxes to support healthcare. Remember, in the UK we are now reaping the whirlwind, so to speak. Our National Health Service was born just after WW2 and it grew, and grew...and got so expensive that now we are facing extra taxes to pay for it because normal income tax can't. For example, elderly care. Imagine you are an elderly person, now retired, who has paid into the NHS all their life, in the expectation that the NHS will take care of you when you become incapacitated. Err...no. The Government is actively considering a compulsory charge of £20,000 on all persons who are property owners, on retirement, meaning that you may well have to sell your house, and then the local authorities will have to house you. So you get taxed twice on your hard earned money AND get to be homeless.

Thanks for the warning, Ginny. I did pay into Social Security all my working life. I have just retired. I cannot afford supplemental medical insurance and have to wait until this October for Medicare to kick in. So, I'm hoping that what you have just said doesn't happen here, because I will really be in trouble, as I do in fact need some fairly serious tests done.

 

You have been warned...

 

I do not doubt that the Tea Party has looked over at this situation over the Brit side of the pond and said, behold, it is not what we want in the USA.

Just so you know, I am not totally opposed to most of the tenents of the Contract of the Tea Party. However, I would take issue with some of its original proponents; and I would question some of their motivation. I do believe that most of the grassroots believers in it are people who are legitimately concerned for one reason or another with government the way they see it. I do not share all of their concerns, but I absolutely welcome their right to have them and to join in this Tea Party.

 

EDIT by LHammonds: This is a better way to reply to a quote when you want to split it into different sections...rather than inserting your text inside the quote.

[ginnyfizz]

Hope you can get your tests done OK after all, Grannywils. Another thing with the out of control NHS budgets that causes much grief is the "postcode lottery" as regards medication. People in one area can get the meds they need, in other areas they can't. Cancer patients in some areas have been allowed to die, or had to ...yes...sell their houses...to pay privately for essential drugs, whereas in other areas, the health authority will pay. My mother is lucky in that our local health authority will pay for the most up to date dementia drugs. As a result, she is not getting any worse. In other localities, dementia patients will be refused the drug until the dementia is far advanced and it is, in effect, too late.

 

This is the reality of universal health care, it may often prove to be anything but.

[grannywils]

Hope you can get your tests done OK after all, Grannywils. Another thing with the out of control NHS budgets that causes much grief is the "postcode lottery" as regards medication. People in one area can get the meds they need, in other areas they can't. Cancer patients in some areas have been allowed to die, or had to ...yes...sell their houses...to pay privately for essential drugs, whereas in other areas, the health authority will pay. My mother is lucky in that our local health authority will pay for the most up to date dementia drugs. As a result, she is not getting any worse. In other localities, dementia patients will be refused the drug until the dementia is far advanced and it is, in effect, too late.

 

This is the reality of universal health care, it may often prove to be anything but.

 

Thank you for your concern, Gennyfizz. I really do appreciate that. My tests are more heart related, and hopefully not as serious. We'll wait and see. As for universal health care, I will remain optomistic and hope that it can be truly universal.. You've definitely had more experience in your Country than we have, but I'm going to try and think positive and hope we can do it.

[JimboUK]

 

 

Thank you for your concern, Gennyfizz. I really do appreciate that. My tests are more heart related, and hopefully not as serious. We'll wait and see. As for universal health care, I will remain optomistic and hope that it can be truly universal.. You've definitely had more experience in your Country than we have, but I'm going to try and think positive and hope we can do it.

 

It works well enough in some countries the problems begin when politicians start interfering with it, when priorities are set for political reasons instead of clinical ones. Add layers of bureaucracy on top of that and you end up with a system that serves everyone but the people who use/pay for it. I really hope it does work out, I wouldn't wish our National Health Service on my worst enemy.

[grannywils]

Thank you for your concern, Gennyfizz. I really do appreciate that. My tests are more heart related, and hopefully not as serious. We'll wait and see. As for universal health care, I will remain optomistic and hope that it can be truly universal.. You've definitely had more experience in your Country than we have, but I'm going to try and think positive and hope we can do it.

 

It works well enough in some countries the problems begin when politicians start interfering with it, when priorities are set for political reasons instead of clinical ones. Add layers of bureaucracy on top of that and you end up with a system that serves everyone but the people who use/pay for it. I really hope it does work out, I wouldn't wish our National Health Service on my worst enemy.

 

 

I think you make a very good point; and I believe that has a lot to do with why ours had so much difficulty getting implemented in the first place for the last many, many, many, many years. That and the fact that those politicians may just possibly be at least partially motivated by the corporations (in this case, perhaps insurance companies?) who support them heavily. And, of course, you are right about the bureaucracy. Is there any way to rid ourselves of all of the red tape. And no, I do not mean let's rid ourselves of government entirely. But is there no way to K.I.S.S. Anyway, thanks for your comment.

[Aurielius]

 

 

Thank you for your concern, Gennyfizz. I really do appreciate that. My tests are more heart related, and hopefully not as serious. We'll wait and see. As for universal health care, I will remain optomistic and hope that it can be truly universal.. You've definitely had more experience in your Country than we have, but I'm going to try and think positive and hope we can do it.

 

It works well enough in some countries the problems begin when politicians start interfering with it, when priorities are set for political reasons instead of clinical ones. Add layers of bureaucracy on top of that and you end up with a system that serves everyone but the people who use/pay for it. I really hope it does work out, I wouldn't wish our National Health Service on my worst enemy.

My mother stills lives in London and when ill she travels to Paris rather than deal with the NHS, thank god her French husband has private health care. Several years ago she had an emergency while I was there and had to be rushed to a hospital in Chelsea, I was appalled at the service level. No offense to my British friends but I can get better veterinary care for my setter over here and more promptly too. I wouldn't wish the NHS on my worst enemy and certainly don't want it to become the standard for the US. I live near Philadelphia which has the highest level of medical expertise in the country, so I might be spoiled, not cheep but extremely good. Seven out of ten doctors nationwide train here and the largest concentration of medical schools in the US. But this is a digression from the Tea Party..mea culpa.

[Maxwell the Fool]

In Organ a woman's state health care wouldn't pay for her cancer treatments, but it would pay for the drugs that she could use to commit suicide with dignity.

 

Euthanasia's how you kill your pets =D (or neighbors).