Crossbows Please!

[Ossir]

True, a crossbow only fires at a set power, which is why I use the scaling with Dex not Str. The idea being that Dex is indicative of accuracy and a more skilled/accurate marksman can deal more damage with a weapon of constant power. While this does stretch the bounds of realism slightly, I think in gameplay terms this is required to stop the weapon becoming obsolete as the character levels (especially in Awakening).

 

Also, I am not sure whether the char screen damage is in any way adjusted to represent DPS, as the numbers I get over enemies heads is always very close to the number on the char screen regardless of character class/spec/weapon/attack speed. In any case, I still felt the crossbow underpowered without the dex scaling. If I'm going to wait 2/3 seconds for my shot (not to mention risking stuns/interrupts and being a sitting duck in the meantime) I would like to see tripple figures come out of it, which I now do. :thumbsup: As it is, I have about half the rate of fire of a longbow, but almost twice the damage per hit, so fair trade.

 

the attachment function on this forum doesn't allow me to add .GDAs so I'll make a .rar with a readme and upload it later.

 

As a side note, how difficult is it to mess with the actual meshes and textures of game items? Is there a lot of special software required?

[Samualln]

They are slow, clumsy and leave one defenseless to attack while reloading. It wasn't the crossbow that ruled Agincourt, it was the longbow.

 

 

 

 

Ahhh, what a bloody massacre that must have been.... Love the 100 years war so much. And its a pretty good book (historical fiction) by Bernard Cromwell. Now we need someone to make a more 'English' style longbow, that's taller then the character.

[AbrasaxDrake]

I see your point Ossir and agree with you.

 

I'm still playing with the gda's as i cant quite get the effect i'm after. Basically i only want the crossbows for my warrior/tank, for one, maybe 2 high damage(especially against heavy armour) shots before changing to my melee weps.

As such i eagerly await your version, and if you have any other changes you think should be implemented would be happy to work on a joint venture. Failing that i will credit you with the work for the crossbow..

 

in regards to meshes and textures i really havn't got a clue but you could try pm'ing some of the modders that have made their own weapons.

[Ossir]

OK, so here is what I came up with:

 

http://www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1560

 

I am a bit concerned after a little more playtesting that this setup is a little "too" powerful, but that might have more to do with my custom runes and the fact my warrior has insane dexterity (over 60 at lvl 15). I once hit 411 damage on Arrow of Slaying with this...

 

anyway, let me know what you think and how it fits in with your idea. I imagine your tank has a lot more strength, willpower and constitution than my archer and hence not as OTT dex. Also let me know if you have ideas for refining it further I' be happy to contribute to getting this spot on.

[MightyMe]

The school of thought (tactical) on longbows vs. crossbows is the longbow can fire between 3x and 5x faster than the x-bow. Even though the x-bow is more powerful, it cannot lay down the rate of fire and damage that can be done with a conventional bow. They are slow, clumsy and leave one defenseless to attack while reloading. It wasn't the crossbow that ruled Agincourt, it was the longbow.

 

Not trying to burst your bubble here but the modders are going to go with the better weapon. No argument with the fact there are few if any modded x-bows in the game.

 

 

Actually it wasn't the longbow that ruled at Agincourt, it was the mud and the English longbowmen defeated the French knights in melee rather then with their bows. Modern testing have proven that even with bodkin arrows (armor piercing) they could not penetrate the knights armour, save with some lucky shots. Apparently the the mud made the knights clumsy in their plate armour, the longbowmen however, wearing little if any armour could faced less movement restrictions and easily outmanoeuvred them. Still most of the knights where actually executed after having surrendered, apparently king Henry V feared that his prisoners would revolt during an second French attack. The longbowmen where ordered to do the dirty deed.

 

A typical misconception among game makers are that you need a lot of dexterity to handle a bow, in truth it is the high strength requirement that limit the bows effectiveness. I am almost sure that a longbow are way cheaper then a crossbow but the cost of training a soldier to use one effectively are sky high for longbowmen, the English had the infrastructure to do that, almost any bloke can use a crossbow. Further more, there is this silly idea melee weapons primarily requires strength in games when dexterity are more realistic, even a two handed sword are light to hold in one hand, it is just balanced for two handed use. For short, bows should be strength based, melee weapons and crossbows dexterity based.

 

I do get the impression that the crossbows in Dragon Age are all light crossbows, if the game worked like in reality, they would be excellent as backup weapons for those that are not primarily archers.

[Thandal]

Agree with many of the previous poster's points, especially re: Agincourt (but I would argue that the English success againast the French cavalry owed as much to casualties from the archers of the former among the mounts of the latter, as it did to the mud!)

 

In DA, I use crossbows exactly as suggested; as the ranged back-up weapon for all my non-mage/non-rogues.

 

Just wish the damage inflicted by either kind of bow were a little more realistic. YOU try continuing to fight with half-a-yard of wood stuck into your leg or torso! :laugh: I would totally be willing to accept equality in damage done by foes in exchange! That would make Stealth, Dodge, and Reduce Hostility, (or any other "avoid attack" buffs) a whole lot more valuable! :thumbsup:

[solraven]

Why not just scale crit chance and multiplier by dex instead. if you wanted realism that would be the way to go!

[Thandal]

Why not just scale crit chance and multiplier by dex instead. if you wanted realism that would be the way to go!

At first this idea appealed, but then I realized that part of the point of giving crossbows to Warriors is so they can do massive damage with a ranged weapon WITHOUT needing high Dex. I'll agree that Dex should impact aim (whether or not the projectile hits the target at all) so maybe just a much higher Crit Prob would be appropriate, with the To-Hit still modifed by Dex.

[solraven]

Why not just scale crit chance and multiplier by dex instead. if you wanted realism that would be the way to go!

At first this idea appealed, but then I realized that part of the point of giving crossbows to Warriors is so they can do massive damage with a ranged weapon WITHOUT needing high Dex. I'll agree that Dex should impact aim (whether or not the projectile hits the target at all) so maybe just a much higher Crit Prob would be appropriate, with the To-Hit still modifed by Dex.

i just think the idea of scaling damage to dex is retarded. a cheep little bolt is not going to go through a solid piece if volcanic arium no mater your dex. you ether hit a unprotected part and do a lot of damage or hit armor and the bolt bends/breaks.

 

don't forget however how hard it was to kock (if i spell it wright it changes it to rooster) a heavy crossbow.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Armborst_4%2C_Nordisk_familjebok.png/301px-Armborst_4%2C_Nordisk_familjebok.png

this is not a vary defensible position to be in in the middle of a battle.

[Thandal]

i just think the idea of scaling damage to dex is retarded. a cheep little bolt is not going to go through a solid piece if volcanic arium no mater your dex. you ether hit a unprotected part and do a lot of damage or hit armor and the bolt bends/breaks.

 

don't forget however how hard it was to kock (if i spell it wright it changes it to rooster) a heavy crossbow.

DAMAGE from crossbows shouldn't scale with Dex, but To-Hit for all bows should. I just think the base damage from missles should be (a lot) greater. And the whole reason a heavy crossbow needed a winch to kock it was because of the HUGE amount of energy being stored. Which was then tranferred into kenetic energy when the trigger was pulled. Dex (or Str, either one) might legitimately improve Rate-of-Fire, but not Damage, from crossbows.

 

Those weren't "cheap little bolts", they were (relatively) massive, in the sense of "having mass", projectiles. They were the .50 cal. slugs of the day. A single-soldier wepon, (as opposed to crew-served catapults or trebuchets) capable of both relatively long ranges, and of punching through even plate armor if the angle were just right (or wrong, from the wearer's perspective. :laugh: )

 

A STR modifier SHOULD be applied to Damage from longbows, since that's what determines how strong a bow the archer could draw and hold, and therefore how much energy could be stored and then released into the arrow. The recurve, and later the compound bow were invented precisely to overcome the linear (archer's) Str-to-Power curves of simple bows.