Game developer says: Sometimes it's OK to steal my games

[Deleted2156640User]

Oh, wow. Even if the expansions are cheaper, that's still not a price I'd be willing to pay for a game. My friend did go out and buy it. I'll just borrow his copy when he gets bored with it.

 

Jeff Vogel: It's ok if some people pirate my games.

Blizzard (prior to release) : We're gonna deliberately price our game high AND give you only one third of it at a time so people pirate it! But sheeple been waiting on Starcraft 2 so long, they'll STILL go buy it in record numbers. We're friggin BRILLIANT. Who cares a few hundred thousand pirate it. It'll sell so fast our heads will spin.

Blizzard (after release): Told ya so. Now excuse us while we go count our money.

 

 

Hey it's my first post, so don't eat me alive...but anyway, I don't think Blizzard is unreasonable. Think way back to StarCraft 1 and Broodwar. Both were released within months of each other. Both full priced games. Within months.

 

At least with StarCraft II the expansions will be placed at least a year apart, so that they can do as much work as possible to make it great.

 

But it's no different than 12 years ago, except that Blizzard announced that there will be 2 expansions instead of just one.

 

The only problem I would have is if the expansions are not as important to SCII as Broodwar was to SC I.

[Chaosblade02]

I have pirated a handful of games, usually games that I wasn't gonna pay for anyway, and none of them were PC games, all console games, just PS1 and PS2 games, which aren't even really on the market anymore and the developers no longer make money on them. I got a bunch of roms for Megadrive and SNES, and don't see how anyone could argue getting those is taking money away from developers.

[Dicecaster]

I am just as against piracy as I am against stealing, because piracy is stealing. If you want to let people do that to your game, specify that somehow (like in the installation agreement). Otherwise, when you commit piracy, you steal a game, making it wrong even if it ended up benefiting everyone in the process. Say McDonald's has an employee in every restaurant, and each one steals some burgers and lets his/her family eat them. Note this only happens once per employee, so it's not some sort of spree. Now, the families have never had McDonald's burgers before, but find they absolutely love them, and now regularly eats at McDonald's. This creates a multi-nation-wide increase in McDonald's sales, which, for McDonald's, is fantastic. McDonald's wins in the end, but the employees have still stolen goods, which is not only illegal, but (in my personal opinion) immoral. Stealing is wrong no matter the circumstances. Edited December 27, 2010 by Dicecaster

[Karasuman]

I am just as against piracy as I am against stealing, because piracy is stealing. If you want to let people do that to your game, specify that in the installation agreement. Otherwise, when you commit piracy, you steal a game, making it wrong even if it ended up benefiting everyone in the process. Say a McDonald's has an employee in every restaurant, and each one steals some burgers and lets his/her family eat them. Note this only happens once per employee. Now, the families have never had McDonald's burgers before, but find they absolutely love them, and now regularly eats at McDonald's. This creates a multi-nation-wide increase in McDonald's sales, which, for McDonald's, is fantastic. McDonald's wins in the end, but the employees have still stolen goods, which is not only illegal, but (in my personal opinion) immoral. Stealing is wrong no matter the circumstances.

 

K let's say one of those people gives a mcdonald's hamburger to one of their kids who would've possibly starved to death without it. Is it still wrong? Maybe. Is it "immoral"? No. I don't think so. Granted, we're talking about games here, but using food is a bad example because you have to have it to survive.

[Dicecaster]

I am just as against piracy as I am against stealing, because piracy is stealing. If you want to let people do that to your game, specify that in the installation agreement. Otherwise, when you commit piracy, you steal a game, making it wrong even if it ended up benefiting everyone in the process. Say a McDonald's has an employee in every restaurant, and each one steals some burgers and lets his/her family eat them. Note this only happens once per employee. Now, the families have never had McDonald's burgers before, but find they absolutely love them, and now regularly eats at McDonald's. This creates a multi-nation-wide increase in McDonald's sales, which, for McDonald's, is fantastic. McDonald's wins in the end, but the employees have still stolen goods, which is not only illegal, but (in my personal opinion) immoral. Stealing is wrong no matter the circumstances.

 

K let's say one of those people gives a mcdonald's hamburger to one of their kids who would've possibly starved to death without it. Is it still wrong? Maybe. Is it "immoral"? No. I don't think so. Granted, we're talking about games here, but using food is a bad example because you have to have it to survive.

Alright, this is tricky. Here: right and wrong is (in my mind) a matter of priority. Saving someone's life takes precedence over protecting one's property. So, stealing Super Mario Bros. to save a man from leukemia (bear with me) would be allowable (of course, if Nintendo found out, chances are they would still charge him, regardless of the ethics of it).

Edited December 27, 2010 by Dicecaster

[Karasuman]

@DIcecaster - Just so you're aware, I only mentioned my scenario more as a philosophical question, not as an attempt to make you question your values, as I do agree with the core of what you said :)

[Dicecaster]

@DIcecaster - Just so you're aware, I only mentioned my scenario more as a philosophical question, not as an attempt to make you question your values, as I do agree with the core of what you said :)

Oh, no, I didn't think you were attacking me or anything at all, but you provided a very valid point. I'm glad you said that, because not only does it challenge me to think, but it does the same for everyone who reads this post. Thank you.

[RZ1029]

Yum, piracy. Ships, booze, wenches an--- oh, wait, wrong kind.

 

But yeah, I think there's a degree of OK behind it. I won't deny, I've pirated a game or five, but they were games I intended to buy (and did) when I finally had some cash in my pocket that wasn't going toward the necessities. And two of them were games I wasn't sure about, so I used it like a trial version. Happens I liked it, and bought it. If I like a game, chances are I'm going to support the developers. And I think a lot of gamers would agree here.

 

My personal example, I used to play WoW back in Vanilla. I started out on a Private server using some slightly modded software because I was cheap and wouldn't pay for the real thing. Well, I liked that game so much that I decided it was worth paying Blizzard their money. So I dropped that private server and got a real account, which I held all the way up through WotLK.

Edited December 27, 2010 by RZ1029

[ilDuderoni]

The whole topic is very, very sensitive.

The balance between right and wrong constantly shifts, and is pushed around by several parties.

Not only that, but both parties bring such strong arguments, its hard to determine right from wrong.

 

First you have the argument of people not being able to afford it due to poverty/accessibility/take your pick.

A good reason to then pirate a game could be because you can't enjoy it due to said reasons.

Or is it really a good reason? Is Gaming considered essential or a luxury? As entertainment, it can be considered essential, but there is such a huge array of ways to entertain yourself, it could immediately deemed as a luxury instead. You might as well buy a puzzle, no?

That's just one of the many vague borders where nobody really has the answer to.

 

Also, if you enable the people to pirate it for the good reason, you immediately enable those who want to download it for the bad reason, too!

How can you separate one from the other? How can you define if you are poor and thus morally allowed to pirate it, and when not?

Would this not force the gap between rich and poor only wider?

 

 

Another argument: companies lose profits due to piracy?

Is this possible or not? Indeed, as said by others in this topic, big companies won't shut down because of Piracy for nothing else then Ethics.

Piracy may even bring extra attention to their game and (hopefully) convince them to buy the game in full!

But then you have the small companies, and the indies... They ARE capable of going bankrupt because their Games' advertisement and the likes are not up to par with those of the big companies. What if its not up to par with general Game quality?

You're an indie game maker who barely makes enough money with the games he makes, but end up having it all illegally spread because it's not "good enough for TV" but good enough to be noticed. That thin line gets the game straight into pirate hands. And you end up having to take a dishwasher job because...heck, you just weren't good enough...

 

A side argument on the above block of text, with more and more games being sold on Steam (I heard rumors the latest TES is going head-first for Steam too), we got a fine example of Fallout: New Vegas.

Sure, you can pirate the game. But now you've got little chance to make use of any of the "superb" mods the Nexus has to offer, since they'll most likely require the latest Update or NVSE version. The latest NV update won't get in your hands very easily, or at least never as fast as Steam gets you it.

And the latest NVSE version only works with the in-game Steam interface enabled, right?

Might this run straight into the "full game demo" concept described in this topic's first post?

 

 

Argument three: people defend piracy because its hyped like everyone hyped evolution.

When the tape-recorder came out, everyone said that Radio would die. When TV came out, again Radio apparantly was threatened.

When the VCR-recorder came, people believed that TV-shows would become pointless.

With CD's, the Radio AGAIN got threatened!

 

It's a strong point. Radio did indeed survive a lot of threats.

And with this theory, you could believe that, in the same pattern, Games would survive Piracy.

The question remains, though, is it comparable? Can you compare the evolution from Radio to TV, with Games and Piracy?

From the described evolution from Radio to CD, all the mentioned means ARE legal. Piracy is not.

 

Truth be told, Torrent technology is one of those things that got my jaw dropped.

Torrents use a system that's brilliant, allowing you to easily and more reliable transfer files from one location to another.

Sad result was that people used Torrent technology to more comfortably spread illicit information and the likes, such as games.

Which points to a sad trait of humans: We're always pushing the limits. Ours, yours, others, of nature and technology.

It's both our virtue and shame. And often our demise.

 

 

The questions we really need to ask are:

• How much of a threat is piracy?
  
• Who are the victims?
  
• Would a big company be less of (or not) a victim?
  
• Would an indie/small company therefor be?
  
• How can we ensure that both are correctly separated if our judgment over piracy would be affected by the above?
  
• Are the current actions taken now against piracy sufficient?
  
• Would it be right to spend more resources into fighting piracy, and take away attention and resources from other vital parts of society that need protecting? Physical Crime? Poverty in other nations such as Africa?
  
• Is it the hunger for control that drives the "big" companies into fighting Piracy?
  

 

 

 

Apologies for the long block of text. Luckily for you, its not a one-sided rant.

I'm only talking about it here because, apparently, it's only allowed in this topic. So it's a big egg I have to lay.

 

But to anyone who thinks of talking about it elsewhere: ITS A BAD IDEA, DON'T DO IT.

This topic is a controlled environment and good to get your opinion out. So do it here when it's about piracy, and nowhere else in The Nexus.

The Moderators and Admins are fine people and you'll only annoy them when taking the topic somewhere it doesn't belong.

 

In fact. I believe that it's not some sort of "instinctive" urge for policing that the Moderators and Admins urge to ban promoting piracy.

If the Nexus ever were to allow such, or even appear as, the huge load of companies or Government(s) complaining to them would be unbearable.

The legal mess could very much cripple the backbone of these websites, being the men (and women?) who keep it free from all undesirable elements. All because we want to discuss piracy here?

 

So remember, when you talk about it anywhere but here, you could put Dark0ne and the rest of the respectable Staff at risk of being legally sued or the like.

You're sure as hell not doing them a favor. Remember that Google put up a virus warning for the Nexus, because the Nexus got reported for hosting a file holding a virus?

Even though that was an infected .exe , from a Spam-account (I suppose), which was removed instantly?

The effects of this dragged on for much longer! It's only a prelude to the huge mess if the Nexus would let you get away with discussing the topic all over the place.

 

Again, I am led to believe its okay to discuss the topic here. But if for some reason, a part (or all) of my post is not appropriate, I'll gladly edit my post (or have it edited) to correct this. I'm not a fool who wants to get banned over their ideals. If shouting out your ideal gets you banned, maybe you should keep it for yourself just a little longer.

 

And on a final note: Do I support/endorse or hate/despise Piracy?

I'll have to owe you that answer until some other time.

There's not yet a consensus whether Piracy is entirely evil. And until then, that answer will have to wait.

I prefer to do the things in my life on an ethical and karma-based level.

Abit like the Open Palm in Jade Empire, remember?

 

I thank you if you read all of it. If you want me to elaborate something, I gladly will.

Anything written should not offend anyone. If it does, I apologize out of the core of my heart and gladly would like to know, so I might be able to change my post (as long as my true point remains).

 

I am no hateful being, out to butt people in the head.

I don't crack jokes to make people miserable.

I crack jokes to rise people's spirits.

 

(PS: I am known to type-o on extremely bad moments. Like moments where missing a "don't" or "do" could form an insult, absolutely in the different direction of my intention. Please keep this in mind if this ever happens)

Edited December 27, 2010 by RJ the Shadow

[marharth]

Let me explain the marketing side of this...

 

A lot of people can't afford games... Now if they illegal download it (when they weren't going to get it anyways with money) they can then tell other people that the game is good, and have others buy it.

 

When it comes down to it, I see no issue with people who can't afford games pirating them. It helps the game company in the long run.