Che Guevara

[Aurielius]

The ridiculousness of the Che cult is that he was virtually a complete failure. As a medical doctor, he never even had a practice. When put in charge of the Cuban economy at the start of Castro’s government, his uncompromising communist diktats ran it completely into the ground, from which it never recovered. Humiliated, and also angry that Castro wasn’t fomenting enough revolution abroad, he then tried to lead such quixotic adventures in Argentina, the Congo, and Bolivia, failing miserably everywhere while sacrificing the lives of scores of naïve, idealistic young followers as deluded pawns in the service of his personality cult.

 

The real Guevara was a reckless bourgeois adrenaline-junkie seeking a place in history as a liberator of the oppressed. But this fanatic’s vehicle of “liberation” was Stalinism. As one of Castro’s top lieutenants, Che helped steer Cuba’s revolutionary regime in a radically repressive direction. Soon after overthrowing Batista, Guevara choreographed the executions of hundreds of Batista officials without any fair trials. He thought nothing of summarily executing even fellow guerrillas suspected of disloyalty and shot one himself with no due process.

 

Che was enraged when the Russians blinked during the 1962 Cuban missile crisis and withdrew their nuclear missiles from the island, thus averting a nuclear war. Guevara was such a zealous ideologue that he relished the specter of millions of Cuban lives sacrificed on the altar of communism, declaring Cuba “a people ready to sacrifice itself to nuclear arms, that its ashes might serve as a basis for new societies.”

 

The only positive thing I can think about the mystique of Che was the Bolivian soldier, Sergeant Terán who put a bullet in his head which did finally put an end to Che's revolutionary career. I cannot abide terrorists, and especially ones that masquerade as 'liberators', the ultimate irony is that the left sees him as some sort of hero...talk about ignorance of the facts.

[grannywils]

Ok, I have now had an opportunity to see the video and to read the above posts by both Ginnyfizz and Aurielius, two of my very favorite adversaries. I think that Glen Beck's video is basically "poppycock", in that it distorts facts and provides partial truths in order to convey the message he wishes to convey. This is typical Glen Beck, and it is why I cannot bear to watch him.

 

However, is everyone sitting down....... I have to say that I must agree in large part with what Aurielius has said in his post above. Although Che was a charasmatic revolutionary who did want the best for his people, I believe that some of the hype did go to his head, and he left a lot undone, and kept taking his "show on the road" as it were. The reason I said in my first post that I had mixed feelings about him was that I believed that he had become something of a tyrant among the very people that he was supposedly trying to help.

 

Although both Ginnyfizz and Aurielius have referred to him as a terrorist, I think we have to remember that we are talking about the 60's, and some of the remarks attributed to him then while inflammatory and frightening were at that time more along the lines of breast beating then any real threat of an actual act of terrorism such as we might expect today. This does not excuse terrorism. I am just suggesting that we have all become quite sensitized to any thought of that sort of language these days.

 

As far as his not being a doctor, he did deliberatly give up his medical trappings to take up the gauntlet, so to speak, of warfare.

 

All in all, I do believe that he did become too full of himself and something of a bully. But somewhere inside I think he started out with the good of his people at heart, but he lost his way.

 

So, I hope I have answered everyone's questions. If not, please let me know.

[Sinophile]

Thank you Jim for posting that video. I will be sure to fix my Original post. To clarify, I myself do not like Glenn Beck at all. I have never agreed with anything he has said, and consider most of what he says hyperbole, or missing the point. Glenn also had his own Agenda when making this video, he mostly wanted to make a jab at the progressives. Regardless of my opinion of Glenn Beck, or the intentions of his video, I liked how he pointed out the hypocrisy in those who wear his image.

Out of curiosity, how many posters here have read animal farm? If you answered no, then head out to a bookstore and buy it now, it takes only an afternoon to read.

 

In hindsight, I probably should've made a less vague debate question. I suppose the question I should ask is,"Knowing the history of Che Guevara, should we be wearing his image?" How come no one wears a Mother Teresa Tshirt, or a George Washington Tshirt?

 

 

I cannot abide terrorists, and especially ones that masquerade as 'liberators', the ultimate irony is that the left sees him as some sort of hero...talk about ignorance of the facts.

What is the difference between a terrorist and a liberator? Wouldn't the British(at the time) consider Washington a terrorist? One can easily draw many similarities between British-occupied America and America-Occupied Iraq. Still, we wouldn't consider anyone gunning for American troops in Iraq a liberator, and We certainly would not compare Saddam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden to any of our founding fathers.

 

Anyway, here are some unsourced facts of what I think I know about Che:

1.) Castro and Che bought a boat in Mexico, and headed to Cuba from there. They had about 50 soldiers.

2.) Castro and Che would steal cows from local ranchers, and give them to the poor. These actions inspired others to join Che's Army.

3.) Che was very paranoid. and often worried about Bautista spies. If he suspected someone was a spy. He(or one of his officers) would take the suspect out into the forest, and shoot them in the back of the head.

4.) He murdered many Bautista officials without a fair trial.

5.) Castro had wanted Che to leave the country, supposedly to spread Communism and fight imperialism. Castro's motives are unknown.

6.) The US had refused to sell oil to Cuba, refusing to sell oil to a country is how the US got into World War 2.

[Aurielius]

 

I cannot abide terrorists, and especially ones that masquerade as 'liberators', the ultimate irony is that the left sees him as some sort of hero...talk about ignorance of the facts.

What is the difference between a terrorist and a liberator? Wouldn't the British(at the time) consider Washington a terrorist? One can easily draw many similarities between British-occupied America and America-Occupied Iraq.

The US had refused to sell oil to Cuba, refusing to sell oil to a country is how the US got into World War 2.

 

@Sinophile

That you could even mention Washington and Che in the same breath speaks volumes about your perspective. Washington was a general in the field who was gallant gentleman an accorded all the courtesies of war to his opponents. He was a Rebel in the eyes of the British not a terrorist.

 

We embargoed oil exports to Japan in response to the continuing violations of the rules of war in China by the Japanese military IE: the 'Rape of Nanking'. Not as an act of isolated provocation. We got into the Second World War after the premeditated surprise attack on Pearl Harbor while the Japanese were negotiating peace in Washington DC. Fortunately the Americans of that generation did not share your perspective.

[roguim]

I cannot abide terrorists, and especially ones that masquerade as 'liberators', the ultimate irony is that the left sees him as some sort of hero...talk about ignorance of the facts.

What is the difference between a terrorist and a liberator? Wouldn't the British(at the time) consider Washington a terrorist?

As far as i know George Washington didn't order the execution of civilians because they payed taxes to the British .

Castro and Che did this, about 10.000 Cuban was murdered for this reason.

 

btw: i still didn't watch the video ( youtube is too low right now) but after i saw it i will reply.

 

btw: 2 about the U.s embargo or (el bloqueo) it's only help Castro government as they can blame every problem the have to it ( to have an idea there is even toilet paper shortage in Cuba most because of it economy policy)

[Pushkatu]

He is respected becouse he had a vision and you see his face everywhere becoue people do what they always did, make money out of it.

[ginnyfizz]

But as others have pointed out, his terrorism was rather more than just talk, and he seems to have had a worrying tendency to enjoy executing people and recording it in detail. Just because the video is anchored by Glenn Beck does not make the content poppycock. As I said, the man was a self confessed murderer.

[grannywils]

But as others have pointed out, his terrorism was rather more than just talk, and he seems to have had a worrying tendency to enjoy executing people and recording it in detail. Just because the video is anchored by Glenn Beck does not make the content poppycock. As I said, the man was a self confessed murderer.

 

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this one Ginnyfizz. The video was typical Glenn Beck. He took just the points he needed to direct us to the viewpoint he wanted us to see. He did not back up his content, he glossed over specifics. He had an agenda, and he made sure that everyone reached the conclusion he wanted us to reach. Now having said that, as you know I have already agreed that Che was something of a bully with his own troops or those he felt had betrayed him. And he started believing his own press too much. As far as being a "self-confessed murderer", the man was a gurilla fighter. Let's face it, that's what they do. War is hell as they say. Whether right or wrong; whether we agreed or disagreed; whether on our side or not; he was fighting a war, as a guerilla fighter. That's what they do. Kill people. Not pleasing to me, but it is what happens under those circumstances. May I just say by the way, that I never wore Che tee shirts because I didn't believe in the way he handled himself, even though I understood and believed in his original cause. But I would wear a Mother Teresa tee shirt any day any where any time, and maybe a Thomas Jefferson tee shirt.

[ginnyfizz]

I HAVE read sources other than the Glenn Beck video.

 

Should we love Che Guevara

 

Victims of Che Guevara

 

Guevara on Wikipedia

 

To name but a few. And also sections of the man's own diaries where he describes shooting someone in the head in intricate detail. It's not just Glenn Beck who wants to burst his saintly bubble. The Taliban and Al Qaeda like to think of themselves as guerrilla fighters too,but like Guevara they are actually sordid hate filled murderers.

[grannywils]

I HAVE read sources other than the Glenn Beck video.

 

Should we love Che Guevara

 

Victims of Che Guevara

 

Guevara on Wikipedia

 

To name but a few. And also sections of the man's own diaries where he describes shooting someone in the head in intricate detail. It's not just Glenn Beck who wants to burst his saintly bubble. The Taliban and Al Qaeda like to think of themselves as guerrilla fighters too,but like Guevara they are actually sordid hate filled murderers.

 

 

Well, I'm not sure where we're going with this. I've already said, not in so many words, that I surely never considered Che to be a saint. I do not now, and nor will I ever approve of Glenn Beck's methods of "reporting" his stories or trying to get his points across. In many cases he has been guilty of blatent character assissination, and I think he is a fool. I recognize and fully acknowledge that this is my own personal opinion, but since it is my opinion, I choose not to listen to or watch his programs ever. Although I personally would not characterize Che Guevara in quite such lowly terms as I would The Taliban and Al Quaeda, I can see why some would. And I do not feel strongly enough about Che to defend that point. So, if you feel that way, so be it.