Is This The Correct Forum To Talk About BASH and Other Tools?

[hlipp]

?

[Striker879]

You've got it. Notice that there's a bit of description for each of the forum sections (e.g. this one says "Having technical problems with Oblivion? Post it here."). Don't sweat it too much on getting in the correct section (Oblivion Tech Support vs Oblivion Mod Troubleshooting). Main thing was to move questions unrelated to any particular mod off that mod's comments page (so it would be entirely appropriate to ask a question about Wrye Bash on it's mod page as opposed to OCO v2's mod page). And remember, these are guidelines not rules. Key point is if you have a question don't be afraid to ask.

 

So how are you and Wrye getting along so far?

[bben46]

We really don't penalize you for posting stuff in the wrong forums - if it is something like a Skyrim topic accidentally put under Oblivion, we will just move it for you and leave a pointer so you will know where it went. :thumbsup:

 

Wrye Bash is used for several games and if you are using it for Oblivion, This is a good place to put it.

[hlipp]

Striker879, I haven't used Bash yet because it's doing something weird. Here's what's happening: The other day I had installed Bash, and when I ran it and clicked on the Installers tab, I received a message asking if Bain should be initialized. I clicked no. A few hours later I decided that I should have clicked yes. So I uninstalled Bash (there was one folder that didn't get deleted: Oblivion Mods, within which were two folders called Bash Installers and Bash Mod Data, so I deleted the Oblivion Mods folder and all that it contained, as they were all Bash related). I then reinstalled Bash, but this time when I clicked on the Installers tab I didn't get the question about initializing Bain. In fact, I was going to start a thread on that today. From what I can tell, the reinstall went okay, but for some reason I didn't get the question about initializing Bain when I clicked on the Installers tab.

I also installed BOSS, and it puts OCO v2 after the body replacers, so that was good.

Edited December 9, 2014 by hlipp

[Striker879]

The fact that you selected No the first time is probably saved in some configuration file hidden away in some folder somewhere (could be BashSettings.dat in MyGames\Oblivion) ... but where isn't really important as it's simple to turn back on. With the Installers tab selected just right click on one of the column headers (Package will do fine) and select Enabled from the right click menu.

 

When you run into something like that it's better to either refer to Wrye Bash General Readme.html or Wrye Bash Advanced Readme.html found in the game's Oblivion\Mopy\Docs folder or ask on here or in Wrye's download page mod comments before uninstalling and re-installing.

 

Just remember, install one mod at a time, using either manual install or BAIN, then BOSS and then rebuild the bashed patch. Start the game and test to make certain everything is stable and as it should be (the mod assets are where they're supposed to be for instance ... providing they don't involve a big quest to confirm). Testing each mod as you install will save hours of troubleshooting later. When I set up my latest Oblivion install I used WB to create profiles, one of which is devoted to just testing newly installed mods ... I have saves from different areas in Cyrodiil to cut down the leg work.

 

You can do a lot with Wrye Bash, but to get the most out of it will require some study on your part.

[hlipp]

Okay good. I was right-clicking on the Installers tab, which was why I wasn't seeing the Enabled option. Doing some reading of the Readme file. Am I correct in thinking that 'Package' is just a synonym for the mod itself? Or is it something else?

 

I ran Bash and right-clicked on Bashed Patch, 0.esp, and a dialog box popped up titled 'Deactivate these mods prior to p...' and within that dialog were two vertically-arranged sections, the upper one named Mergeable, the lower one name "Mergeable, but tagged 'NoMerge'". Within the Mergeable section were these mods, all with check marks next to them: UOPS Additional Changes.esp, USIPS Additional Changes.esp, DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp, MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp. In the Mergeable, but tagged 'NoMerge' section was RTFemaleReplacerV12.esp (also with a check mark next to it). I'm just going to back out of this, as I have no idea why it wants these mods deactivated.

Edited December 9, 2014 by hlipp

[Striker879]

Sometimes a mod will be completely mergeable into the bashed patch, meaning that after merging, it's ESP is no longer needed to be active (it still needs to be present in your Data folder). Wrye Bash reads all of the mods ESP contents and puts them into the bashed patch and then deactivates the original ESP.

 

Other mods are actually mergeable but have a bash tag added by the mod author instructing Wrye Bash not to merge them (Mergeable but tagged NoMerge). If you were getting close to the 255 mod limit (that's how many mods can be used by the vanilla game at one time ... a limit that WB has ways of working around) I'd say try merging those Mergeable but tagged NoMerge mods. You're not anywhere close to that point yet so leave the Deactivate Prior to Merging mods ticked and the Mergeable but tagged NoMerge unticked.

 

Another point on your load order so far ... the ESP for Roberts Male (MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp) is not required at all when you are also using OCO v2, and in fact can cause some problems. You can either delete it from your Oblivion\Data folder or move it to a backup folder outside of the game's Data folder (if you downloaded Roberts Male manually to a download folder you can always extract the archive and get the ESP if you need it later ... if you downloaded directly to the Oblivion Mods\Bash Installers folder you may want to just move it to backup).

 

The reason they call them packages I think is in deference to the full blown BAIN packages that some mods include, often with a BAIN wizard to walk you through all of the options. If you download some mods manually and extract them you'll find a numbered folder structure like 00 Core, 01 Orb Style, 01 Skyrim Style, 01 Vanilla Style, 10 Optional Compass HUD base (Dark) DarN, 10 Optional Compass base BT mod, 10 Optional Compass base Vanilla etc. (some of the folders found in the HUD Status Bars extracted download). If it had a wizard it would walk you trough the various options and then install only your selections from the appropriate folders. HUD Status Bars doesn't have a wizard though, so the readme tells you "install everything in 00 Core, one of the 01 folders and then any of the others that apply to your current install".

 

Long answer because I'm not very good at short ones.

[hlipp]

Long answers are good! I think I understand Bash a little better now. As usual, one answer usually begets another question (or two). So what happens if you don't decativate the mod...it doesn't get incorporated in the patch? Also, since the Bashed Patch file is supposed to be last in the load order, does that mean that all the mods that were NOT deactivated will run before the Bashed Patch? If so, couldn't that cause a problem? Or is Bash smart enough not to allow that to happen? Just to make sure, you're recommending that in building the patch that I deactivate the Mergeable mods (leave them ticked), and untick the Mergeable but tagged 'NoMerge' mod (there's only one, the Female Body Replacer), right?

 

I knew that Roberts Body Replacer mods weren't required for OCO but I didn't realize that the Male one could cause problems. I think I used NMM to install that one, and I think that quite a few files of the base game were overwritten during that install. Deleting the .esp file for the Male replacer mod, I'd still have the files that the mod put into the various subfolders (in meshes, for example). Does OCO overwrite the files that the Male replacer installed?

 

Although it probably isn't obvious, I think I'm beginning to understand these tools a little (emphasis on 'little') better.

[Striker879]

It takes time, and you've stepped right up to the "Big Boys" table and plunked down your chips. I was weeks if not months getting my head around some stuff. Stayed away from Wrye for years (but I'm "all in" now).

 

The base game stores all of it's assets in the BSA files (e.g. Oblivion - Meshes.bsa and Oblivion - Textures - Compressed.bsa). No installer will overwrite the BSA files (at least none I've ever heard of). About the only folders that aren't kept in the compressed BSA format are Music and Shaders, so they could be vulnerable to the vanilla files getting overwritten (replacements for the vanilla shaders can be downloaded from here, so Music is the only one that you could consider really "at risk").

 

When you use the Roberts Male Body Replacer Texture Compatibility Addon from the OCO v2 download section you are using Nuska's replacement textures for the Roberts textures that are compatible with OCO v2. If you leave the MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp active it points to the textures that were installed during the Roberts Male installation. The head texture paths are different between the two (Roberts is the same as vanilla ... OCO v2 points to the nuska folder). The MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp isn't required and depending on load order can cause problems because of this difference. Move it to a backup folder that you'll need to create outside of the game's Data folder (can be outside of all the game's folders if you want).

 

Wrye is indeed smart enough to handle things correctly, even when you aren't "following" it's recommendations (if you untick an ESP in the Mergeable and Deactivate list it won't merge that ESP's contents into the bashed patch). The disadvantage of not following it's recommendations is that you'll be ignoring the wisdom of all those much brighter than I who have researched and discovered what works and what doesn't. Wrye Bash uses the combined experience of both the WB team and the BOSS team ... it'll be a very rare occasion that you'll find a recommendation that isn't spot on, and certainly not with a popular mod like Roberts or OCO v2. Following those recommendations not only leverages the combined wisdom of the WB and BOSS team but also the feedback received from thousands of users (if it didn't work they'd be sure to hear about it). Leaving the NoMerge unticked merely follows the mod authors wishes. I'm pretty certain that if WB says it can be merged, it can be merged, but not merging won't cause problems.

 

The bashed patch is a very powerful tool for getting conflicting mods working together. In some cases it offers the only way unless you are willing to use other tools like TES4Edit to manually merge two or more conflicting mods.

[hlipp]

I didn't know about Nuska's female compatibility addon and don't have it installed. As I understand it, I should delete the MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp out of the Data folder and leave the files that that mod had written into the various sub folders as is. With the .esp file gone, those files that the Male replacer wrote into the various subfolders will still be there but will not be called into the game, because the esp is gone. So those leftover files from the MaleBodyReplacerV5 mod can essentially be looked upon as garbage cluttering up the folders, but harmless, is that right?

 

I'm confused about one thing regarding Nuska's male compatibility addon mod. Should I install Nuska's Roberts Male Body Replacer Texture Compatibility Addon even if I've deleted MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp? The load order guidelines for that addon has the body replacer as #1 in the order. This implies that I shouldn't delete MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp.

 

I see that Nuska also has a compatibility addon for the female replacer, and I think I should install that as well.

 

Regarding Wrye's bashed patches I have another question but it can wait. I need to stay focused on this male body replacer confusion that I've mentioned. I'm going to go back to that OCO thread and read it again. The first time through most of it zoomed right by me. I can't thank you enough for the help you've given me. I hope I'm not tiring you out!

 

Edit: Thinking more about this, I'm going to assume that if I delete MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp, then I shouldn't install the male compatibility addon...that would make no sense whatsoever. So the question then becomes: do I want the male body replacer or not. Reading the OCO thread, I'm understanding that the body replacers aren't even needed. Compatibility problems aside, is there an advantage to having these body replacers?

Edited December 10, 2014 by hlipp