Is This The Correct Forum To Talk About BASH and Other Tools?

[Striker879]

Au contraire my friend, even though you have removed MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp you will still need the compatibility add-on. The add-on only contains replacement textures that are compatible with the changes made by the OCO v2 ESP. After you have removed MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp the OCO v2 ESP will use the textures from it's replacement add-on and the meshes from your original Roberts Male installation. The original textures from Roberts Male will be overwritten by the OCO v2 add-on, and it adds some textures in a new folder for the heads (so the old Roberts head textures are really the only ones "taking up space" afterwards).

 

For males in the game there is really only one choice ... Roberts Male. For female characters and NPCs there are a number of choices, and unfortunately most aren't compatible with one another. Once again you are at a fork in the path ... decision time.

 

The main two are HGEC and Roberts Female (but there are plenty of others like BAB, TGND and Fantasy Figures). Far and away the most popular is HGEC. Where this popularity comes into play is the variety of modded clothes/armor available for download. Both HGEC and Roberts Female require replacement clothes/armor that is compatible for their respective mesh and texture changes (otherwise the game will only use it's vanilla clothes and armor and varying degrees of ugliness will result).

 

For HGEC I recommend EVE - HGEC Eyecandy Variants Expansion and for Roberts Female Robert Female Body v13. Both come with replacers for the stock clothes and armor. You won't find near as many additional clothes /armor released for the Roberts version but there are some (and most tend to the more conservative approach appearance wise). Sky's the limit with HGEC.

 

Nuska has released compatibility patches for both HGEC and Roberts Female, so it comes down to your preferences. A question to ask yourself is do you intend to play primarily male characters or female? For male characters there is only one choice, and not much released as far as additional clothes and armor (but there is some). For female characters, would you be likely to want to amass a large collection of clothes and armor for your character to wear, or is that unlikely? Either way the vanilla game NPCs will only be wearing the compatible replacements, which for the most part are identical to their vanilla counterparts (unless of course you install some of the skimpy sexy etc. replacers ... in which case you'll be best served using HGEC for a female body replacer).

[hlipp]

Just so you know, I haven't even played the game yet, so I'm not sure what I'll end up preferring in the long run. However, I understand much better now about what's going on with the OCO compatibility mod. My game plan is to delete the MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp file, and then install the OCO v2 male addon.

 

I already have Roberts Female Body v13 installed. Since HGEC offeres more choices, it seems best that I go with HGEC. I originally installed Roberts Female Body v13 using NMM. After opening NMM, I see that I can select the Roberts Female Body v13 in the Mods folder of NMM and click on delete. I haven't done it yet because I want to make sure I know how to go about installing HGEC. For HGEC, is this what I should do?: install HG EyeCandy Body (specifically, HGEC v1-21 BAIN repack v1.7z), and then install EVE HGEC Eyecandy Variants Expansion.

 

So my overall game plan for today is:

1. Delete MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp file.

2. Install Nuska's Roberts Male Body replacer texture compatibility addon.

3. Using NMM, delete Roberts Female Body v13.

4. Install HGEC using Bash (HGEC v1-21 BAIN repack v1.7z).

5. Install EVE HGEC Eyecandy Variants Expansion.

6. Install Nuska's HGEC texture compatibility addon.

 

Does that sound about right?

 

One question about this. Since OCO v2 is already installed, installing HGEC (as I have planned) would be installing the mod AFTER OCO v2 is installed. This violates Nuska's install order that she's got on the OCO v2 page. Will this cause a problem?

Edited December 10, 2014 by hlipp

[Striker879]

EVE is also packaged in a BAIN friendly format. Once you put the downloaded archive EVE_HGEC_BodyStock and Clothing Wrye Bash BAIN -24078.7z into your Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion Mods\Bash Installers folder you'll find WB lists a bunch of sub-packages in the Sub-Packages window to the lower right (after you've selected EVE in the Package window of course). You'll want to tick 00 Core and 01 Body Textures to start.

 

Next look through the 10 and 15 series of folders. There are different sizes of upper and lower bodies available (EBE stands for extra buff edition, others are self explanatory) and all are available as either a nude version or with underwear. Tick one of the 10's and one of the 15's (example 10 Normal C-Cup Nude and 15 Lowerbody Normal Nude ... but you could mix nude upper and underwear lower if you wanted just a topless look for example). Then you'll want to select the matching 20 and 25 series folders (example above would be 20 Equipment Replacer Upperbody - Normal C-Cup and 25 Equipment Replacer Lowerbody - Normal).

 

In the Esp/m Filter box select the ESPs that correspond with what you have installed in your base game (you'll want EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer.esp and EVE_KhajiitFix.esp as well as EVE_ShiverIslesEasterEggs.esp and EVE_KnightsoftheNine.esp if you have Shivering Isles and Knights of the Nine DLCs installed). The ESPs are required to allow female versions of armor/clothes that only have a male version in the vanilla game (example, there is no female steel cuirass in the vanilla game ... females wear a male cuirass). Then in the Package window right click on EVE and select install.

 

If in future you decide you want a different body just select EVE in the package list and change which sub-packages are ticked (still only one form each series) and install.

 

You do know that eventually you'll need to play through the tutorial and exit the sewers ... right?

 

Just kidding. I went through similar when I re-installed the game and all the DLCs. Seemed like forever before I got all my base game mods installed. In my case I had a character save at the sewer exit so I could install a mod then exit and make sure everything was working correctly before moving on to the next on my list. Using the Save Profiles I have a Base Game profile, a Mod Testing profile and my newest character's profile (he's just about ready to level up to level 10).

 

And don't forget, it's install then BOSS then rebuild your bashed patch.

 

- Edit - And yes, steps one two and three look correct ... might not hurt to BOSS and rebuild after step three and before installing EVE, as well as after installing EVE.

 

- Edit 2 - Yes that "violates" Nuska's install order ... all will be OK if you install her HGEC compatibility patch after installing EVE.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Striker879

[hlipp]

Heck, I haven't even gotten into the sewers yet! I've been quitting the game right after the secret door in the prison cell opens. Today I plan to make some real headway with these mods. I'm not sure what to expect when I start using BASH to install the HGEC mods, but the information you provided gets me thinking that I'll be able to plod through it. I'll go with your recommendations. The necessity for matching the upper and lower bodies might have escaped me but for your help. Hopefully I'll be able to report major sucess later on!

[Striker879]

When you make it to the point near the end of the tutorial where you can see the sewer exit in the distance make a save. This will be the save you'll use as you add mods and test.

 

A note about saving ... don't use quicksave (it's a known corrupter of save files) and don't overwrite saves. Always save in a new slot or use named saves from the console (again not overwriting). When your Saves folder starts getting full (more than a couple of hundred saves) move all but the most recent to backup storage outside of the Oblivion\Saves folder (Oblivion\MySavesBackup is fine or on a completely separate drive if you want added security). The reason is having too many saves in your Oblivion\Saves folder will start to slow down menu opening etc.

 

Have a look through Wrye Bash Advanced Readme.html section 6b Save Profiles. Pretty handy tool for keeping different load orders for different characters or testing profiles.

[hlipp]

Okay, so far so good (I think). I've deleted MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp, installed Nuska's male compatibility addon, and deleted Roberts Female Body v13. I then ran BOSS through BASH. After that I right-clicked on the Bashed Patch, 0.esp file and selected Rebuild Patch from the context menu. I went with the defaults all the way. In the beginning it recommend deactivating 3 mods, I said okay. At the conclusion of this rebuild a window popped up asking to activate the patch, I clicked yes, the Bashed Patch, 0.esp got a tick mark, and that was that. Now it's time to install HGEC v1-21 BAIN repack v1.7z. Reading the Bash Readme file, I see that the HGEC package would be classified as a Complex package. I'll go with your recommendations and hope for the best. I'll do another BOSS and patch rebuild after the HGEC install. Here goes...

 

Edit: Installing HGEC seemed to go okay: I unpacked the .7z file into Oblivion Mods/Bash Installers folder. Right-clicked it in the Installers tab of Bash, clicked on Wizard from the context menu, and it stepped me through the selections. I didn't get to choose any esp's or Equipment replacers, those options never appeared. It went right to Finish after the upper and lower body selections (and these selections were already selected in advance accordance to my initial selection(Core and Normal), so by leaving the defaults the way the were all went well.

 

One strange thing I noticed is that when I again ran boss through Bash, the GUI didn't pop up, so I wasn't sure if BOSS had even run. To make sure BOSS ran after the HGEC install, I ran BOSS straight from BOSS, then went back to Wrye and rebuilt the Bashed Patch.

 

Now on to EVE HGEC Eyecandy Variants Expansion...

 

Edit #2. Okay, I see that the esp's and choices you mentioned are part of the EVE install.

 

Edit #3. Okay! Finished the EVE install, ran BOSS, then rebuilt the Bashed Patch. Then I installed Nuska's HGEC texture compatibility addon, ran BOSS, then rebuilt the Bashed Patch. All seems well! I don't think I would have been able to get all this done today (and correctly) but for your help. I can't thank you enough. Now I'm going to go about installing Better Cities (after doing some research). From what I understand so far, BC shouldn't conflict with OCO v2.

Edited December 10, 2014 by hlipp

[Striker879]

Sorry I wasn't clearer about it, but you didn't need to install the HGEC v1-21 BAIN repack at all. It's what I call a "pure replacer" (I'll explain that in a second) while EVE is sort of half way between a pure replacer and a regular mod (well maybe only 1/4 the way between, leaning to the pure replacer end of the scale). Because of how pure replacers work you have no cause for concern though.

 

Recall how I mentioned that the game has all of it's vanilla assets inside the BSA files (e.g. Oblivion -Meshes.bsa and Oblivion - Textures - Compressed.bsa). What replacer mods like HGEC (and EVE is just a variant of HGEC) and Roberts do is at the basest level replace assets with new ones. The vanilla game has body meshes all stored inside Oblivion - Meshes.bsa and the corresponding textures in the textures BSA. Replacers work by putting the replacement meshes and textures in exactly the proper directory (folder) path so that it matches the path used inside the compressed BSA. Inside the BSA the female upper body mesh is in the folder path Meshes\characters\_male and so a replacer will also use that same path structure, only in your Data folder (so the replacers complete path is Oblivion\Data\Meshes\characters\_male in your game install).

 

By default the game will ignore the replacements and continue to use the assets from inside the BSA files. In order for replacers to work without an ESP a method was devised called Archive Invalidation. Using Archive Invalidation if the game found assets that were newer than those in the BSAs it would use the newer. Various methods of implementing Archive Invalidation have been tried over the years. The most recent and by far most successful is called BSA Redirection. How it works isn't as important as it provides a do once and forget about it solution to Archive Invalidation (the older methods such as BSA Alteration were fraught with upkeep issues and compatibility problems).

 

Fortunately enabling BSA Redirection is simple using Wrye Bash. In the Installers tab right click menu, mid way up the second section of the menu from the bottom you'll see BSA Redirection. If it doesn't have a tick mark beside it click on it and reopen the right click menu to confirm it's ticked ... done!!

 

Another note about WB's Installers tab ... you don't need to extract the downloaded ZIP, RAR or 7Z file. Just copy it to the Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion Mods\Bash Installers folder found in your game install folders. Wrye will find it and take care of the extraction ... you'll just see the mods name listed in the Package window, with all the same functionality as if you'd done the extracting yourself. Copying a single file to the Bash Installers folder has less risk of an "Oops" than a bunch of folders.

 

So, more than a second later ... a pure replacer is a mod that doesn't require any ESP file to work. By following the proper folder structure, and using Archive Invalidation pure replacers are simply replacement files for the vanilla game assets (NIF for meshes, DDS for textures and KF for animations). Hybrid solutions like EVE use one or more ESP files to fix shortcomings in the vanilla game, in addition to being a working pure replacer (the ESPs don't replace anything, only add to the game). Then there are all the rest of the mods that rely on ESPs and OBSE plugins to add to the game. OCO v2 is in that camp with some pure replacer mixed in.

[hlipp]

For some strange reason, Bash didn't recognize the .7z files when I put them in the Bash Installers folder. I was surprised because the install directions in the Readme even state to put the archive there, and by archive I assume it means the .7z file. The Installers tab in Bash didn't show the file. When I extracted the .7z, fortunately the package had one top level folder which contained everything else. From that point, the Installers tab showed the package and I was able to install it. One other strange thing occured with running BOSS through Wrye. The first time it went as expected, the GUI showed up, showing the results. However, for the subsequent BOSS runs through Wrye, the GUI didn't show up. So I ran BOSS straight from BOSS. The Bashed Patch rebuilds seem to go well. The BSA Rediretion item was already ticked, so that seems okay. In line with what you wrote, I noticed that the HGEC v1-21 BAIN repack and Nuska's HGEC texture compatibility addon didn't have any esps in the archives. Strange glitch that Bash couldn't recognize the archives when they were placed in the Bash Installers directory.

Edited December 11, 2014 by hlipp

[Striker879]

Yes it is odd. I have seen one other report of something similar, that user couldn't drag and drop archives into the Installers Package window and have them recognized. I'm an old Windows dinosaur who dislikes all things drag'n-dropped so I've only tried the copy/paste method in Windows Explorer. Have you tried the drag and drop method into the Installers Package window (though what you have working is working)?

 

Your BOSS issue also has me scratching my head (it always works from the BOSS icon at the bottom of the WB window for me). What operating system are you running, and is the account you're using an administrator account or regular account?

 

- Edit - If you right click the BOSS icon down at the bottom of the WB window there's an option to Launch Using GUI. If it's not ticked it launches BOSS using the same interface as the command line version (all you get is a small black command prompt window). Is your's ticked or not ticked?

Edited December 11, 2014 by Striker879

[hlipp]

Regarding BOSS the problem was operator error. When I right-clicked on the BOSS icon in Bash, that little menu that popped up with the top item being 'Launch Using GUI', I was thinking of that item as a command to actually launch BOSS! Since it is actually a toggle selector, naturally BOSS didn't run when I clicked it. When I closed the menu and clicked on the icon, BOSS ran. I must have got lucky the first time, doing it right. It seems trivial now.

 

I restarted the computer and then dropped the Bain repack archive into the Bash Installers directory, and this time Bash had it in the Installers window when I ran it. Deleting it from the Bash Installers directory, I then dropped it into the Installers window directly, and got the dialog window asking to move or copy it. So that's working now.

 

I'm running Windows 8.1. Probably as an administrator, though I haven't delved too much into that aspect of computering. I'm running Oblivion through steam, and installed steam in c:/Games, so I shouldn't encounter any of the account permission issues that can occur with programs installed in c:/Program Files.

 

I think the next two mods I'll install will be Oscuros Oblivion Overhaul Version 135, and Better Cities. OOO install seems very easy:

 

Bain install for OOO:

1. Copy the entire archive into your Oblivion Mods\Bash Installers folder.
2. In Wrye Bash Installers tab, highlight the new archive.
3. Check any sub-folders, ESP/ESM's as required.
4. Right click the archive name and Install.
5. In Wrye Bash Mods tab, check the ESP/ESM's and rebuild Bashed patch. (Also recommended to run BOSS first).

 

Better Cities looks interesting as well.

Edited December 11, 2014 by hlipp