A Modular Ed-E

[Danny159]

 

To be fair, that was a duplicate.

The original Ed-E was safe and sound in the Mojave. ^^

 

Weak. ED-E/LR was a separate and complete consciousness, that showed fear, bravery and a highly evolved sense of morality. If a twin sacrifices him/herself to save others, no one says "To be fair, that was a duplicate". ED-E/LR wasn't some remote controlled shell.

 

ED-E/LR gave up his/her/it's existence to protect humans, the same race that, most of the time, have been trying to kick the crap out of ED-E. How many humans would do that for people s/he didn't even know? Maybe it was knowing the few humans that weren't trying to kill it (his/her/its creator, the courier, etc) that made the decision to sacrifice itself worthwhile.

 

 

Ed-E got remote scanned both design and programming.

Thus basically it had all the knowledge of the original, who had a few very good experiences with humanity as well.

 

Also the duplicate transmitted all it's data over to the original as well, so in a way it lived on. ^^

[devinpatterson]

Ed-E got remote scanned both design and programming.

Thus basically it had all the knowledge of the original, who had a few very good experiences with humanity as well.

Actually we know of one, possibly two if the courier treated ed-e well, and I listed both above.

 

Also the duplicate transmitted all it's data over to the original as well, so in a way it lived on. ^^

 

Only if you consider data life :rolleyes:

 

None of which supports your original assertion that ED-E/LR's sacrifice was somehow less, because the original ed-e was safe and sound. You may not give it up for the little dude/dudette, but I think the little bot did something pretty amazing.

[Danny159]

Well when it comes to AI, life is a bit different as AI can basically just switch bodies in an instant XD

 

Like the Geth in Mass Effect, where a Geth program can just download into a different mobile platform (or body). ^^

[devinpatterson]

Well when it comes to AI, life is a bit different as AI can basically just switch bodies in an instant XD

I think that's too simplistic of a view, there are other factors involved. For instance if your talking real life, I don't think any AI expert thinks you can have a truly sentient, self aware AI on a a 286 (for example), no matter how optimized the code is. The platform is important too. There are approximately 100 billion neurons in the human brain (which are more complicated than simple binary switches).

 

Like the Geth in Mass Effect, where a Geth program can just download into a different mobile platform (or body). ^^

On the other hand if your talking about the game world, then you'd want to use precedence. In this case I think Victor and Yesman can swap their consciousness. It's not a common ability, nor would you want to apply other game world realities to fallout.

 

But all of the above is geting away from your original asserttion, that because ed-e was a clone s/he/it's sacrifice was somehow diminished. That's an assertion your have to prove (an assertion without proof to back it up is just talking out of your butt).

 

 

Thus basically it had all the knowledge of the original, who had a few very good experiences with humanity as well.

Very few, as in only one we know about.....it's creator. ED-E was even tortured (that info is in his tapes) by the enclave, shot at in the trailer, and in general, to the best of our knowledge was treated pretty crappy.

 

But the basic premises is actually pretty simple. Ask a human twin if they care about dying. They are simply a genetic clone/duplicate, yet to them (unless they have some mental pathology) their life has value and meaning to *them*. ED-E #2 has the same motivations as ED-E, and it's life has value to *it*.

 

ED-E sacrificed something of great value (to it), which is it's existence. ED-E did this in order to save others (the legion) which would have killed it as soon as looked at the little bot. The little guy had eveolved a consciousness that went above his programming to develop a moral code. I fee very confident in saying the enclave did not program him to spare legion troops, that's a decision ED-E made (aka the needs of the many).

 

So yeah, it's your assertion, so you need to back it up. And you have to deal with at least those two issues above. Since it's already patently true that ED-E's life has value to ED-E, I don't see any way your going to be able to logically prove your assertion. In other words, I think your just plain wrong on this one brother.

[Danny159]

Since when did Ed_E spared or killed Legion troops on it's own?

That was just joining or doing what the Courier asked of Ed-E as a companion...

 

It is kinda mean of the Courier to force the Ed-E clone to kill it self to stop both nukes but the Courier couldn't do it themselves and thus it was the only way to stop the nukes.

And duplicate Ed-E still transferred all of it's memories and experiences to it's original in the Mojave.

 

It completely depends on Ed-E's look on conciousness but one could think because Ed-E can share all of it's memories (or soul) between multiple mobile platforms, it could see it as a kind of immortality as long as one copy persists. ^^

[devinpatterson]

Since when did Ed_E spared or killed Legion troops on it's own?

He spares one of the larges legion outposts in the frontier, and not because he is forced to by the courier.

 

That was just joining or doing what the Courier asked of Ed-E as a companion...

Nope. You need to watch a vid or replay hte ending.

 

Courier; "Ask Ed-E for help"->

 

Tape with info on hacking military networks, and the resulting destruction of the eyebot, plays.

 

Courier; "Are you...are you saying you can stop the missles?

 

Ed-E; Confirmatory beeping.

 

Courier: "But the log said that kind of encryption will kill you!"

 

ED-E; Sad beeping

 

Courier; "No, ED-E I won't let you sacrifice yourself like this. There has to be a another way!"

 

ED-E; Sad beeping

 

Courier; "If.... if you're really sure you want this, okay. Go ahead and stop the missle. And....goodbye

 

ED-E; Determined beeping.

 

It is kinda mean of the Courier to force the Ed-E clone to kill it self to stop both nukes

The courier doesn't force ED-E to kill him/her/itself (that's why it's called a sacrifice), ED-E chooses to to save the targeted Legion or NCR.

 

And duplicate Ed-E still transferred all of it's memories and experiences to it's original in the Mojave.

Where did you get the info that *all* memories and experiences are transferred?

 

Ed-E can share all of it's memories (or soul) between multiple mobile platforms, it could see it as a kind of immortality as long as one copy persists. ^^

You can look at it that way, philosophically and I bet some people would agree with you.

 

But that's not the point, your drifting from your initial assertion. As an example you can directly relate to, would you be willing to sacrifice yourself for a group of people that would kill you as soon as look at you......as long as you knew your memories would be preserved? Or would your life still be a great sacrifice to you? Can't say it's something I'd do lightly.

 

In my opinion, the little bot is awesome. It rose above it's programming and even though it was treated negatively it gained a respect for human life (possibly by the few positive interactions it had with two particular humans) that convinced it to sacrifice itself to save others (who would kill it if they could, ie the legion). In my book the little bucket of bolts is pretty amazing.

[Danny159]

Who says Ed-E did that for the Legion?

He also saves the NCR and anyone in both area's, seems like a neutral-good action at worst...

 

 

In the ending slideshow, it says Ed-E clone transferred data to the original Ed-E.

 

 

How am I drifting?

If I know I would live on in another body, then sure if it means I save EVERYONE not just the "bad guys" and it's still even debatable Legion really are all evil...

They certainly did something right.

 

Why are we arguing if we are kinda agreeing? XD

[devinpatterson]

Who says Ed-E did that for the Legion?

He stopped the launch, if he had not the legion outpost would have been nuked.

 

He also saves the NCR and anyone in both area's, seems like a neutral-good action at worst...

Your opinion that it is a "neutral-good action", doesn't in any way diminish the sacrifice ed-e made for others, including others that are hostile to ed-e.

 

In the ending slideshow, it says Ed-E clone transferred data to the original Ed-E.

My quote;

 

Where did you get the info that *all* memories and experiences are transferred?

Notice the asterisk used for emphasis on the word all?

 

The relevant quote;

 

"As his last gesture, he sent one last signal to his counterpart in the Mojave, passing along what the Courier had taught him in the Divide."

 

But it's not particularly relevant, because memories or data alone is not consciousness/sentience.

 

If I know I would live on in another body, then sure if it means I save EVERYONE

You wouldn't live on in another body, that's called your consciousness. Your memories are preserved.....memories alone are not your consciousness. It would be the equivalent of another having false memories, an example being when one dreams. There are memories of the dream, but those events did not happen. Another would have those memories, *you* would be *dead*. That is why it's called a sacrifice, giving up something of great value (probably the most valuable thing ed-e #2 has, it's existence) for others.

 

Ed-e #2 could continue to exist, it was the little bots choice, and in a branching dialog he can/does. He travels to seek "home";

 

"With that last farewell, he set off, carrying the song of Old World hope with him, which had given him Strength and purpose on his journey. And no matter what, he knew there would be a second home to return to, Navarro or not - and that his creator would be proud."

 

Contrast that with non-existence, but simply storage of some data sent. You should be able to intuitively if not rationally see the difference and understand what Ed-e gave up for others (many openly hostile to ed-e).

 

not just the "bad guys" and it's still even debatable Legion really are all evil...

They certainly did something right.

Sure they'r clearly saints

 

Why are we arguing if we are kinda agreeing? XD

We're not......not at all. You implied that because s/he (ed-e #2) was a duplicate, his sacrifice was somehow less, because ed-e #1 was safe in the Mojave. Would you make the same claim about a twin? If one twin sacrifices his/her life for someone, is that a act of little value simply because the other twin is home safe and sound?

 

Ed-e gave up his/her life (something of great value to Ed-e), to prevent others from being nuked, that's fact for that branching reality. If it had not, it could have continued it's life as per the alternate slides. That was Ed-e's sacrifice, I'm still waiting to hear a cogent argument that supports your assertion that Ed-e's actions fell short simply because s/he is a duplicate.

[Danny159]

The nukes were set to launch at the NCR, not Legion...

 

We don't know how robot conciousness works, for all we know both ED-E's were in constant contact with each other and one conciousness controlled both bodies.

 

I didn't say Legion are saints, I said they did SOME good.

 

Let's just agree to disagree.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Danny159

[devinpatterson]

The nukes were set to launch at the NCR, not Legion...

Targeting the Legion was one option to avoid nuking the NCR, the lesser of two evils (to many). ED-E chose (in one timeline) not to accept the lesser evil and sacrificed his/her/its life to prevent the legion outpost being nuked (and by direct consequence also preserving the NCR outpost).

 

We don't know how robot conciousness works, for all we know both ED-E's were in constant contact with each other and one conciousness controlled both bodies.

There's no reason to believe they were, and ample evidence to believe the contrary. For example a last minute broadcast was sent to the orginal ED-E when ED-E #2 knew he was going to die, this was to contain what ED-E had learned. In addition, in one timeline the clone ED-E survives and pursues a existence of his/her/it's own......completely independent of the original ED-E.

 

The idea that we don't know something is impossible so it's as likely as another alternative that has supporting evidence is has echoes of proving a negative. Ie. I don't "know" with a 100% certainity that unicorns don't exist, but without a shred of evidence to support their existence I feel fairly confident in ruling out the chances of running into one.

 

I didn't say Legion are saints, I said they did SOME good.

Actually you said;

 

it's still even debatable Legion really are all evil...They certainly did something right."

Guess it depends on your definition of "right", as it apparently differs from the word "right" in the moral sense. But no biggie, I don't feel strongly about persecuting the legion as their transgressions are blatantly obvious for anyone to see.

 

Let's just agree to disagree.

As you wish.

 

But in my book, the little droid is freak'n amazing. Most humans wouldn't show the kind of humanity that a small bot learned to......despite the trials he suffered at humanities hands. No small feat for man or (especially) machine. The little tin can is A-OK in my book.