COBL Races/Cosmetics Problems (?)

[MURDERMASS]

Thanks a lot to both of you, things are getting clearer :)

 

I've already decided to uninstall QTPIII since it makes a big impact on FPS in combination with RAEVWD. I'll try the lower res package instead.

 

Also, will Unique Landscapes work well with QTP and Better Cities overall or is it best to just choose one of them?

 

BAIN installation sounds awesome by the way! This is the fifth time I'll do a complete re-install of Vanilla Oblivion in three days, I don't even want to think about how many hours I've put into this already. Hopefully I'll have time to do all this tomorrow, I'll be sure to let you know how it went.

 

Once again, thanks for your advice!

[Hickory]

Unique Landscapes (for me, at least) is a must-have compilation, even over QTP, but you must remember to keep your eye out on the compatibility patches page (there are 98 at this time). QTP works with any mod that uses vanilla textures. Remember, when you install terrain changing mods, always run TES4LODGen afterwards.

[MURDERMASS]

Ok, so this is my BAIN install list at the moment:

 

Bain Packages:

 

-- 000 - Cobl_172-21104.7z (BFECAEE3) (Not Installed)

-- 001 - Cobl_Cosmetics_Res_01-21104.7z (C1254BEC) (Not Installed)

-- 002 - Colored_World_Map_-_Correct_Cities-31809.rar (38C6CF50) (Not Installed)

-- 003 - Enhanced_Economy_4_3_1-25078.rar (60B008A6) (Not Installed)

-- 004 - Proximity_Based_Sneak_Penalties_v15-15025.rar (7EC43250) (Not Installed)

-- 005 - Stealth_Overhaul-6359.zip (F0376CCB) (Not Installed)

-- 006 - MIDAS_MAGIC_SPELLS_OF_AURUM_0995-9562.zip (382DA995) (Not Installed)

-- 007 - MIDAS_MAGIC_SPELLS_OF_AURUM_0995_Patch_A-9562.zip (E39AF0AC) (Not Installed)

-- 008 - Reneers_Guard_Overhaul_252-5977.zip (5483C8D9) (Not Installed)

-- 009 - TamrielTravellers139c_-__Even_more_Omod_script_Fixes-4387.7z (3B7FC23F) (Not Installed)

-- 010 - tnrallracesfinal.zip (A3C9B399) (Not Installed)

-- 011 - Deadly_Reflex_Combat_Moves_v5_0-8273.zip (9AAB096E) (Not Installed)

-- 012 - Hotfix_for_v5_0-8273.zip (5726D76C) (Not Installed)

-- 013 - LexScalesArmour-17327.7z (619F8F07) (Not Installed)

-- 014 - QTP3Redimized.zip (37657997) (Not Installed)

-- 015 - QTP3R-Patch.7z (7779A018) (Not Installed)

-- 016 - Unofficial_Oblivion_Patch_v3_2_0_Manual_Version-5296.7z (BCBA7B56) (Not Installed)

-- 017 - Unofficial_Oblivion_Patch_v3_2_0_Hotfix_Manual-5296.7z (58D7B65F) (Not Installed)

-- 018 - UOP_Supplemental_v331-27710.7z (04FE1BDF) (Not Installed)

-- 019 - QTP3_UOP32_Patch_2dot3-11261.7z (AB6F3EB9) (Not Installed)

-- 020 - Optimized_QTP3_Meshes_-_Fixed-26756.7z (8A16159E) (Not Installed)

-- 021 - OOO_133_Complete.7z (01C01D0F) (Not Installed)

-- 022 - OOO_133_OMOD_ready_Patch-15256.7z (89DA6ED4) (Not Installed)

-- 023 - All_Natural_v1_0-18305.7z (C9E6D835) (Not Installed)

-- 024 - Better_Cities_Permanent_Resources-16513.7z (D104206E) (Not Installed)

-- 025 - Better_Cities_Resources_4-7-0-16513.7z (C8FFA899) (Not Installed)

-- 026 - Better_Cities_4-7-1-16513.7z (2876F4EB) (Not Installed)

-- 027 - RAEVWD_v1_8-20053.7z (CC621199) (Not Installed)

-- 028 - UL_-_Ancient_Yews_v143-11458.7z (37F1FFDD) (Not Installed)

-- 029 - EntiusGorge12-7037.7z (E6B71A29) (Not Installed)

-- 030 - Stendarr_Valley_v1_2_2-7054.rar (DBE16D63) (Not Installed)

-- 031 - UL_-_Arrius_Creek_v113-16818.7z (01513E8E) (Not Installed)

-- 032 - UL_-_Ancient_Yews_and_Arrius_Creek_Patch_v11-16818.7z (E433DF5B) (Not Installed)

-- 033 - UL_-_Aspen_Wood_v102a-28763.7z (921ADC4E) (Not Installed)

-- 034 - UL_-_Blackwood_Forest_110-25799.7z (39936638) (Not Installed)

-- 035 - UL_-_Bravil_Barrowfields_v133-20426.7z (068EBA96) (Not Installed)

-- 036 - UL_-_Brena_River_Ravine_v11-23573.7z (AF8C29C4) (Not Installed)

-- 037 - UL_-_Cheydinhal_Falls_v101-27494.7z (4CB1C17D) (Not Installed)

-- 038 - UL_-_Chorrol_Hinterland_122-11189.7z (D7FCACA6) (Not Installed)

-- 039 - UL_-_Cloudtop_Mountains_v103-16677.7z (9A002649) (Not Installed)

-- 040 - UL_-_Colovian_Highlands_v121-15511.7z (0BEDF692) (Not Installed)

-- 041 - UL_-_Fallenleaf_Everglade_v131-17562.7z (F32544B0) (Not Installed)

-- 042 - UL_-_Imperial_Isle_v165-9531.7z (1E0A7B3F) (Not Installed)

-- 043 - UL_-_Panther_River_v111-20332.7z (9B75A6AA) (Not Installed)

-- 044 - UL_-_River_Ethe_102-17330.7z (E3375CC7) (Not Installed)

-- 045 - UL_-_Rolling_Hills_v132-10768.7z (D00AFADF) (Not Installed)

-- 046 - UL_-_Skingrad_Outskirts_v101-29948.7z (177C0C0C) (Not Installed)

-- 047 - UL_-_Snowdale_v1-33125.7z (1716C307) (Not Installed)

-- 048 - UL_-_The_Dark_Forest_v105-11162.7z (30D9654B) (Not Installed)

-- 049 - UL_-_The_Great_Forest_-_Ancient_Redwoods_v16-11163.7z (85C50DD9) (Not Installed)

-- 050 - UL_-_The_Great_Forest_-_Lush_Woodland_v13-11164.7z (6C5C3EF5) (Not Installed)

-- 051 - UL_-_The_Heath_v111-11165.7z (571EBD56) (Not Installed)

-- 052 - Unique_Landscapes_-_Beaches_of_Cyrodiil_-_Lost_Coast-14720.7z (8AC2FD6C) (Not Installed)

-- 053 - OOO_-_Snowdale_patch_v1_0-13834.7z (A0664E0A) (Not Installed)

-- 054 - DarNified_UI_132_7z_Archive-10763.7z (7D6892C9) (Not Installed)

-- 055 - Immersive_Interiors_0-7-34199.7z (D72F1C28) (Not Installed)

-- 056 - IFT_Improved_Facial_Textures-5643.zip (7E98DEC4) (Not Installed)

-- 057 - Facial_Textures_by_Enayla-9534.7z (9D699DA5) (Not Installed)

-- 058 - Diverse Grasses 0.6 - Main.zip (2D0082B2) (Not Installed)

-- 059 - Realistic_Physics_and_Force_Package-5197.zip (70B2EBF5) (Not Installed)

-- 060 - Symphony_of_Violence_0_5-13987.rar (78B5C41F) (Not Installed)

-- 061 - Oblivion Collectible Cards UL Cheydinhal Falls Patch 1_0.7z (AAE298D1) (Not Installed)

-- 062 - OCCv1dot52-19140.7z (5FA83003) (Not Installed)

063 - ==Last==

 

I've tried to cross-reference mods with install order through the sites you've shown me and I think this is somewhat right. Before I began I did a complete reinstall of Vanilla Oblivion and the Official Patch (Oblivion_v1.2.0416UK), I also installed all the "tools" required (Wrye Bash, BOSS, OBMM, OBSE and Streamline) as well as "Pluggy" and "Fast Exit 2" plugins.

 

Now to my questions regarding installing all these packages through BAIN:

 

1. All packages except "001 - Cobl_Cosmetics_Res_01-21104.7z (C1254BEC) (Not Installed)" shows red boxes, the Cosmetics box is white. According to the BAIN readme this is an indication of missing files. Most of these seems to be textures/meshes/esp's/docs. Is this good or bad? Maybe it's just because I haven't installed them yet?

 

2. Some of the mods are "marked with grey" (not the box colour though), i.e. "Proximity Based Sneak", "Tamriel Travellers", "Unofficial Oblivion Patch" and "Realistic Physics and Force". Others are blue, i.e. "Better Cities", "Cobl" and "Enhanced Economy". Good or bad?

 

3. Do I have to go through each archive looking for .ini files or can I check "Has Extra Directories" on all of them?

 

4. How does the installation process work exactly? Do I check all the esp's etc. that I want in each archive (as listed in the "Sub-packages" and "Esp/em-filter", then mark all archives --> Right Click --> Install?

 

5. Will BAIN let me configure certain aspects of the game (i.e. the use of Harvest Flora 3.0 included in OOO) when installing or is there some other way to do that?

 

6. After the installtion, should I run BOSS and then make the Bashed File in Wrye?

 

7. After all of this, should I run TES4LODGen = ready to play?

 

 

All answers are much appreciated :)

[MURDERMASS]

-- 001 - Cobl_Cosmetics_Res_01-21104.7z (C1254BEC) (Not Installed)

 

Removed from BAIN-list since I won't use "Cobl Races". I'll try out "Improved Facial Textures" and "Facial Textures by Enayla" instead.

 

Also I've got one more question, when creating the Bashed File there's an option called "Import Cells" which contains a few mods (OOO and UOP is two of them if I remember it correctly), should I check all the boxes in this category, none of them or something in between? Basically, should I check all the categories (not just Import Cells, but Import Faces/Graphics/Animations etc.) which contains modnames that I aim to use?

[Hickory]

I don't use BAIN, so I really can't help you there. But regarding your Bashed Patch, yes you should check ALL AND ANY of your mods that are listed (and installed) in any of the categories, particularly the Merge Patches, Import... and Race Records categories. If you are using Cobl, check Cobl Catalogs. Do not check Cobl Exhaustion unless you are using Cobl's Power Exhaustion, same with the Power Exhaustion category. Globals and Tweak sections are entirely optional game tweaks. Also check off Contents Checker.

 

Alias Mod Names and Replace FormIDs should NOT be used unless you know what you are doing.

[MURDERMASS]

Great, thanks once again for your advice. I think I'll try to do a BAIN-install and see how it goes. It feels like all the hard work is over though (finding mods and their respective patches, install- and load order), maybe I'm wrong :)

[HarryM1986]

1. Bain will list all files of a mod as 'missing' until you install the mod. Bain cross references the files in the archive structure of the mod with the archive structure of your data directory, if the mod is not yet installed bain will see all the files as 'missing' from the data directory. Install the mod and bain will tell you if there are any conflicts e.t.c. with other mods. One of the main reasons for this function of bain is for people making mods in 'project folders' in the bash installers folder through the bain interface. Once a mod has been 'finished' and packaged, this function can be used to see if the package process has missed any files from the mod the modder has just built. it is also good to see if, for instance you manually delete files from the data directory, bain will tell you which mod they have been deleted from by showing that mod as having files in the installation archive (package in bains list) but missing from the data directory.

 

2. Installation archives with a 'grey' text background refer to installation packages that have a subdirectory as part of the package that bain does not recognise or is not going to install (exe's for example). You can check the 'skipped' info window to see which folders/files bain skipped after installing. Taking Unofficial_Oblivion_Patch_v3_2_0_Manual_Version-5296.7z as an example ( i presume this is the same UOP you have as mine also has a grey background) Opening the archive by right clicking and selecting 'open' shows us that the two top level archives are 'data' and 'unofficial oblivion patch'. The latter is what bain does not recognise as the name 'unofficial oblivion patch' does not match any folder name in the Oblivion data directory, so bain by giving that archive a grey background is telling us that it will not install this folder.

 

The folder archive of a Bain installer package has to 'mimic' the structure of the oblivion data directory. (this is known as a 'simple package') In a simple package there can be any folder named the same as any folder in the top level of the oblivion data directory: 'textures/meshes/sounds' e.t.c. (Also .esp's can be here, obviously) Any folder that does 'not' have a name matching one in the data directory bain will not install. There is one exception to this rule, and that is a folder named 'docs', any files in a folder named 'docs' in the top level of the bain installer package bain will put in the 'docs' folder bain has made in the data directory for this purpose.

 

It is common practice to open an installer package directory and check that the directory structure is 'bain friendly' (that is, that the directory structure mimics the data directory structure). This is for simple packages. Complex packages are a little more complicated, i will explain them further down.

 

Taking Unofficial_Oblivion_Patch_v3_2_0_Manual_Version-5296.7z as an example again. To get rid of the grey background we need to restructure the archive. We do this by right clicking the package and selecting 'unpack to project'. This will unpack the compressed archive into a folder archive, (the new project will appear on the list with a diamond icon, you can set bain to list all your project folders at the very top of the list, which helps to seperate them from the list) we can then open up the archive by right clicking it and select 'open'. We now need to simply rename the folder named 'unofficial oblivion patch' to 'docs' (as this is what the folder has in it).

 

We can now repack the project to an archive (it is good practice to keep the directory name the same all the way through so it overwrites the old archive with the new altered one when you re-pack it). The archive should no longer have a grey text background as bain now recognizes all of the file structure in the Mods archive.

 

It is not 'always' necessary to do this however, when you get used to the rule that bain will not install folders that it does not recognize you can choose to not install certain components like readmes as they are easily accessible by simply opening the installation archive in bain anyway. This is why it was not entirely needed to repackage the UOP archive as all it is not installing are readmes. When it 'is' necessary to do this is when the file structure of a mod is 'bad', i.e. when it does not mimic the data directory structure and the folders named badly have resources integral to the mods working properly. then it is important to restructure the package in a way that bain will recognize.

 

For a simple package you just need to make sure that the structure mimics the data directory, having textures/meshes/sound and esm's/esp's at the top level. Sometimes the mod archive when downloaded will have a top level folder with the name of the mod, within that will be a 'data' folder and in that will be what i mentioned before ( a bain friendly structure). In this case copy everything out of the data folder, make a new folder in your bash installers folder and paste the resources in there. Give the folder the same name as the original archive (copy paste again if you like) and pack to archive.

 

For a complex package with optional pluggins a general process should be followed. When creating a complex file structure, always start with a folder with the name of your mod, within that folder create a folder named '00 Core' or '00 Core files' or something similar. All files that HAVE to be installed should be placed in this folder, in a manner that they would have been put in the top level folder if it was a simple package (that is having the 'bain friendly' structure') In other words, treat the '00 Core' folder as oblivions 'data' folder.

 

Next any 'optional' esp's, or optional components should be placed in a second folder named '01 *somethingorother*'. For example my OOO bain ready archive has a file structure as follows:

 

00 Core files (this has the main meshes/sound/textures folders and OOO esm/esp)

 

01 OOO full (this has the esp for the 'full' version of OOO)

 

01 OOO lite (this has the esp for OOO lite version)

 

02 Options only for full (this has the only option you can use with the full OOO version which is the OOO-DLT_Remover.esp)

 

02 Options only for lite (this has 20 ESPs consisiting of all the optional esp's usable with the light version, OOO-Deadly Combat/OOO-TheifGuild_Difficult for example)

 

03 Compatibility options (this folder contains the esp's used for making certain aspects of OOO compatible with other mods OOO-Magic Script effect fix.esp for example)

 

04 Other Options ... (more esp's)

 

05 Living Economy ... (more esp's) (seperate as i don't want it installed, so i simply don't check this folder when i install OOO)

 

06 Level rate modified ... (more esp's)

 

07 Docs (docs/readmes are in here

 

08 Extras ( OOO.ico and OOOupsave.exe are in here)

 

As you can see the Core folder has all of the important files that HAVE to be installed and its structure is in a way that Bain can treat '00 Core' as if it were a simple structured mod in itself and install it. The same goes for ALL of the other folders. Bain will treat each numbered folder as if it were a simple structured mod archive. If there were any optional resources needed for any of the ESPs in any of the folders, you would place the relevent folders (textures/meshes/sound e.t.c.) in the same numbered folder as the esp that needs the resources.

 

When it comes to installing, you will see that first off, the Icon for the mod archive in bains list will be light grey/white, this means that the mod has a complex structure and nothing is selected to be installed (so bain thinks there 'is' nothing to be installed), clicking on the mod will show you a list on the bottom right of the Bain window of all of the folders within the complex structure, selecting one of the folders (00 Core for example) will show any 'esps/esms' in the box to the right. For example in the example above, if i clicked on 'compatibility options' then the 3 esps in that 'folder' would appear in the list of possible esp's i can install in the box to the right.

 

No texture/meshes/sounds e.t.c. will show up on the list as it only shows esps/esms. So make sure that the archive is packed correctly.

 

The navy blue text is bain telling you that the mod archive is a package with sub-packages. The files to be installed, and thus the install state of the package will depend on which sub-packages you have activated. It simply means bain knows it is a complex mod package, don't worry about it.

 

 

Using complex packages can be really handy, for example, if you have a mod with a few esps and you know you only want to use one, Make a folder, make a Core files folder and place the textures/meshes e.t.c. and esp you want in that folder, make a second folder named 01 optional or whatever and place the ones you don't want in there, then make a docs folder and place the readme in there, and you've just quickly made an easily install/uninstallable custom configured mod archive.

 

A good example is a recently downloaded a mod that has 13 different flameparticle.dds files (its a mod that changes the look of fire in the game) i simply made 13 00 flame 01/02/03/04 e.t.c. and in each one i made a 'textures->fire->fireflame->fireflameparticle' structure, now all i need to do to try them all out is check 1 box in order, install, check it out, then move to the next one by checking the next box and right clicking the mod and choose 'anneal' and it will uninstall then re-install with the new settings i've chosen.

 

Complex mod structures can be really helpful.

 

Anyway, i've really gone down the rabbit hole with this one lol, hope you've stayed with me on this and its made sense to you though. I'll carry on answering your questions.

 

3. I've never had any trouble with Bain installing INI files, I've never really checked 'has extra directories' and bain has installed ini files no problem. As a safety net always look at the 'missing' and 'skipped' tabs if any files have shown up as in those categories in the overview tab for that mod. But really in the case of INI's i wouldn't worry and look at the relevent tabs and info to see if bain 'has' skipped or missed any and manually install if necessary, i've never had to, but the info is thee to see if it does ever happen so its not a worry.

 

4. Yes, hopefully what i was going on about earlier has made this point clearer to you, if a mod is a simple archive, it will simply have a red/pink icon and the sub packages window will be blank, with these all you have to do is right click and select install. The icon should go green if all is well, yellow if there are any conflicts or orange if there are any other mods adding the same esp/esm's. yellow/orange doesn't mean 'bad' its purpose is for information, conflicts can be deliberate, for example, a patch for a mod will often install a 'newer' version of an ESP, so one you install it the first mod that the patch is for's installer icon will turn orange to show you another mod has installed an ESP with the same name. But we know that, and it was controlled and deliberate. Looking on the conflicts tab will show you wich files 'this' mod has overwridden (listed in the conflicts tab as mods on the list with a lower priority) and files that have overwridden files in 'this' mod (listed in the conflicts tab as mods on the list with a higher priority).

 

This is a fantastic way of really seeing down to a deep level of resource interaction as an aid of controlling which files override which files in conflicting mods (face texture packs for example) You can, with a little know how of installation order and resource conflict, get components of one mod that you want and components of another mod that you want working together, even though there may well be heavy conflict between the two mods overall. Sometimes though this is simply not possible. But i hope you get the idea.

 

In the case of complex packages. It simply is a case of checking which components you want installed, ALWAYS remember to check the '00 Core' (or similar name) option, and then any other options you want installed, starting in the 'subpackages' tab, selecting the option you want in there, and then selecting which components (esp's) of 'that' package you want installed in the esp/esm filter box. Go through each subdirectory as needed/chosen for that overall mod archive and then install. It is also good practice to right click and 'open' the mod archive to have a look at and browse through the archive as necessary as a great way of 'seeing' what components you are choosing to be installed (including any possible resource folders in each subpackage, not listed in the bain window remember) as you are making your decissions.

 

5. I believe by saying 'configure certain aspects of the game' you mean an equivelent to what OBMM does by prompting a scripted dialogue asking you what components you want installed. The short answer is Yes. The long answer is a little more complicated. The scripted dialogue boxes in OBMM are simply a user friendly way of asking you which ESP's you want installed, it woun't tell you 'do you want 'xxx.esp' it will ask you 'do you want 'xxx aspect installed'; its essentially the same thing. To do this in Bain you simply need to choose the relevent ESP in the esp/esm filter after you have selected the relevent subfolder. With things like OOO it is sometimes required to 'make' a bain friendly archive of OOO before hand and then refer to the readme while choosing which esp's to install as a guide on decission making. I know this sounds long and boring but trust me, its worth it, purely for bains flexibility in and around mods in general, if things go wrong, need for uninstallation, conflict reports e.t.c.

 

If you need help making a bain friendly archive of OOO take a look at this page which will walk you through the whole installation process :) (that page is part of a larger guide for installing OOO, check out the whole thing if you want to)

 

6. YES! Run BOSS everytime you install a new mod, it will place the esp exactly where it needs to be in the load order for you without you having to worry about anything, its an amazing bit of equipment! And also YES!! After ANY new mod installed, or ANY change to your load order, Rebuild your pashed patch!!! even if it doesn't seem to add anything to the patch, a change in the load order can confuse the crap out of it and it is not unknown for odd things to happen in game after a load order change/new mod addition without rebuilding the patch.

 

The best steps to take in adding new mods are -> configure the mod -> install the mod -> Run an archive invalidation (if needed, i always run one anyway just to make sure) -> Run BOSS, check the notes against your new mod to see if boss tells you anything important about it (and also so BOSS adds any bash tags to the mod if they're required, another great feature of BOSS) -> Rebuild your Bashed Patch -> Finally, if the mod you added has changed any exterior cells (added new world parts buildings e.t.c. or mods like RAEVWD, then run LODGEN... which answers your last question.

 

wow... finished. Hope this helps! good luck and throw any questions my way if you didn't understand any of what i said or if you run into any more issues along the way. (sorry about the spelling/typos, can't be assed to go through it all and correct em lol)

 

Peace out.

[MURDERMASS]

That made things a LOT clearer :)

 

Thanks for answering all my questions in detail, I read the BAIN-readme over and over again but still couldn't grasp it all.

 

I tried to do a BAIN-install before reading this post and most things seems to work fine, however all the eyes were black so I added the "character/eyes" folder from Cobl Resources (even if I've not installed Cobl Races) and problem was solved. Looks like I'll have to do some archive reorganizing with i.e. OOO to be sure to get all the desired files.

 

I'll let you know if (when :P) any problems show up.

 

Kudos to both of you!