Is Bethesda Nordicist?

[FegelTemplar]

Hardly. You do not entertain any view except your own, yet you portrayed yourself as wanting to discuss. You do not wish to discuss. You wish to dictate.

 

My pointing that out is not "semantics". It is an observation based on what you have said. Like your prior "he said/she said" argument, I'm at a loss to explain what you think these things even mean.

 

Semantics is a study or use of meanings and their form. I am not arguing that you mean something different from what you state, or that the difference between what you state and what you mean is minor or major- I am stating that you don't want to listen to anyone's standpoint but your own. Given that observable fact, I can see that coupled with your inability to test your own theory, this entire discussion is a failed premise.

 

You can trot out any linguistic term you like and call it anything you want to. The fact remains that you have your conclusion and you just wish to recite it to an audience.

Just to clarify, yes it's this whole "you say this," "you are doing that," "you are using said words", "but you don't want to listen," "you portray yourself this way"

 

Pretty much all this personal talk, which does not in any way adress the topic at hand, and is instead aimed at trying to start a flame war or make a personal statement about someone else, this is what I refer to as semantics. It doesn't bring anything new, let's both admit we both know you're just trying to be an asshole and get over it.

 

Now that we got that out of the way, please remove yourself from this conversation if you're not interested in discussing. You believe that whatever you say to me is useless because I'm not listening, so I don't see why you're posting at all to begin with, unless your purpose is, of course, to look for confrontation.

[cdcooley]

No.

 

In earlier games Nords were jokes, the enemy, and just plain boring. Now, with a game set in their homeland, they have been portrayed more favorably and the other races take a back seat. There's no reason expect that in the next game they won't go back to the status they had in earlier games. If that doesn't happen, then come back with this sort of theory but until then, no.

[lofgren]

 

And yet you're placing Nordic people on a higher level of fantasy than Mediterranean people, when you say that Imperials are the "normal human" option.

 

 

Ask yourself, how did you get to the point of believing that Imperials are less fantasy-like than Nords?

 

Why are Imperials "normal humans" and Nords are more than that? According to some people here it's even supposed to be another way, with Nords being more simple humans and Imperials being closer to the magic world of elves due to their place on the map.

 

 

You write "and yet" as if you're somehow refuting my argument.

 

I put the Nords ever so slightly higher on the fantasy scale than Imperials because Imperials are more "civilized." The live lives that are more familiar to the majority of players, both to their real lives and through the melange of generic fantasy settings that they consume. Their racial traits tend to be the least fantastical. If the level of alien-ness of a race determines which flavor of racial supremacy Bethesda supports, it's safe to conclude that they are in fact supporters of lizard overlords since the Argonians are by far the most fantastical of the races, followed distantly by Khajiit who are themselves a hundred times more fantastical than their nearest competitors the Orcs. Anyway it's all subjective. It doesn't mean anything about Bethesda's actual intentions. That's just my interpretation.

 

You're conflating different meanings of "normal human." Nords are the most linearly descended from the ancient races of man, with the least Elven influences. The are the most human by canon. Imperials are (again, in my opinion) the most "familiar" race to most players of the game. They are the most "meta" human, if you will. This has jack all to do with which is superior and even less to do with esoteric theories of ethnic purity.

[FegelTemplar]

 

 

And yet you're placing Nordic people on a higher level of fantasy than Mediterranean people, when you say that Imperials are the "normal human" option.

 

 

Ask yourself, how did you get to the point of believing that Imperials are less fantasy-like than Nords?

 

Why are Imperials "normal humans" and Nords are more than that? According to some people here it's even supposed to be another way, with Nords being more simple humans and Imperials being closer to the magic world of elves due to their place on the map.

 

 

You write "and yet" as if you're somehow refuting my argument.

 

I put the Nords ever so slightly higher on the fantasy scale than Imperials because Imperials are more "civilized." The live lives that are more familiar to the majority of players, both to their real lives and through the melange of generic fantasy settings that they consume. Their racial traits tend to be the least fantastical. If the level of alien-ness of a race determines which flavor of racial supremacy Bethesda supports, it's safe to conclude that they are in fact supporters of lizard overlords since the Argonians are by far the most fantastical of the races, followed distantly by Khajiit who are themselves a hundred times more fantastical than their nearest competitors the Orcs. Anyway it's all subjective. It doesn't mean anything about Bethesda's actual intentions. That's just my interpretation.

 

You're conflating different meanings of "normal human." Nords are the most linearly descended from the ancient races of man, with the least Elven influences. The are the most human by canon. Imperials are (again, in my opinion) the most "familiar" race to most players of the game. They are the most "meta" human, if you will. This has jack all to do with which is superior and even less to do with esoteric theories of ethnic purity.

 

And we go all the way back to the original point: that Bethesda choses to depict Imperials this way. It's like you say, they are depicted as the least fantastical through their racial traits and their society.

 

Imagine if Bethesda had focused on the less civilised side of Romans, if they would've made of them gladiators and introduced references to some heroes like Hercules and mythical creatures like centaurs and phoenixes and gryphons and what not. If they'd have made them more fantasy worthy. Then you wouldn't go around claiming Romans are boring and Vikings are epic fantasy, or if you really insisted to you'd have it more evenely balanced.

 

See this wouldn't even be a problem if it didn't have an impact on people, but it does (again, see the reviewer I linked). It gives prestige to Nordic countries. If we were to have a poll here on this website, asking "would you rather team up with a nordic player or a mediterranean player in a MMO", the majority will vote the nordic player, because they come off these games like Skyrim with the idea that Nordic people are the superior, coolest people in the world, and everyone else is boring and lame. I've seen the poll on other game websites already, it's always the same thing. 20 million people or more played Skyrim; the game does have an impact on gamers.

 

You may think that I have no motivation for starting this thread other than being bored. But that's not the case. I can't go around saying what country I'm from with the same pride some Norwegian can come here and say "I'm from Norway" and immediately get himself more respect simply based on his nationality. If you're Nordic, you have way higher chances of being accepted in good MMO guilds than if you're from Southern Europe, regardless of skill and regardless of what kind of person you truly are. I want to change that. I want to denounce nordicism and these unfair advantages that are circulating since around 2011. I'd like our side to be represented in a fair way.

[thomriis]

Jesus christ!! This is a game mate.

 

Yes Skyrim is the best selling TES tiltle And why do you think so? (Game has been adapted to a larger audience than previous titles)

 

Nordic mythology is often more interesting cause its so far out,But what has this to do with racism??

 

Its funny cause in these modern times i actually think that we in scandinavia are the boring ones compared to other parts of the world,So should i?? just because im from Denmark feel superior to other species (its a joke) Im so mighty Baaah.

 

Scandinavian traits :

 

1. Its f...... Cold.

2.we are so pale that we dont need torches when darkness falls.

3.way to many werewolves.

4.we dont greet each other (often)

5. religion ha ha ha (Churches are only visited during christmas eve)

6.we lack c-vitamins (thats why doctors dosnt cost anything) We simply cant afford it.

7.your B.... might freeze off if you go outside.

 

Does that sound superior in any way??? Anyone interested in trading with me :tongue:

 

So why dont you just enjoy the game or play Candy crush instead???

[FegelTemplar]

 

Nordic mythology is often more interesting cause its so far out,But what has this to do with racism??

 

At least this one admits his nordicism whole heartedly and doesn't write three paragraphs working ways around it.

 

Maybe the reason you find it more interesting is exactly because of what I've been saying from the very beginning: because it's been vastly glorified and embelished in Skyrim, it's been made 100x more epic than reality, whereas Roman/Greek mythology was watered down, made 100x more boring than it originally was.

 

It's funny you say "it's so far out" when you then claim you live in Scandinavia, also.

 

Also, Japanese/Hindu/Chinese and even Egyptian mythologies are way more far out than Nordic, so by your logic shouldn't they also be more interesting? And yet, where's the TES: Rising Sun happening? We can be glad Romans and Persians were at the very least included in TES because they didn't even care to introduce a playable race that would be reminiscing of Asia.

[Zaldir]

Everyone, please tone it down a little bit. This is not a history debate. Nothing in TES has anything to do with real life. Everything in the games are simply the developers take on their own fantasy universe. Whether or not the developers are more interested in Norse mythology than Roman history is not really essential, but if you insist on debating it, please be civil about it.

[Lachdonin]

Oi, I don't know why I'm stepping back into this...

 

Nordic religion and mythology is exceedingly popular amongst the Western consumers because it is strange and outlandish while still being relatable the predominantly Christian-influenced cultures. Its strange, but comfortable, but not so over-used as Greco-Roman influences (which are largely the cornerstone of the Western world) which makes it a popular basis for fantasy. That does NOT mean that those who utilise it are trying to perpetuate a falsehood that Nords are better than everyone else.

 

And, again, the depiction of cultures in Skyrim are based on the region in questions. Nords have ALWAYS been based on Scandinavian and Germanic people's, and it makes perfect sense that those influences would feature prominently in a game based on the Nord homeland. At the same time, Todd Howard and Pete Hines have both openly admitted that they went a wrong direction with Oblivion in choosing medieval European influences rather than sticking to the Morrowind-Imperial Byzantine culture. Because of that mistake, the Imperials in Skyrim take a secondary cultural platform in an attempt to revitalise Cyrodiil's identity, but because of the location and the focus they could not have Imperial culture, traditions and religion overshadow Nordic, lest they come to the same problem in the next game.

 

There is also no indication that they rely too heavily on Nordic influences overall, as Dunmeri culture is highly influences by Japanese and Aramaic ideologies and styles. In fact, the Dunmer have received more love and attention from the developers than anyone, so if anything you could argue they are Wiaboos.

[FegelTemplar]

 

There is also no indication that they rely too heavily on Nordic influences overall, as Dunmeri culture is highly influences by Japanese and Aramaic ideologies and styles. In fact, the Dunmer have received more love and attention from the developers than anyone, so if anything you could argue they are Wiaboos.

How so? I honestly don't see how they relate. I thought the races of the Akavir continent were supposed to represent Asian culture?

[Zaldir]

 

There is also no indication that they rely too heavily on Nordic influences overall, as Dunmeri culture is highly influences by Japanese and Aramaic ideologies and styles. In fact, the Dunmer have received more love and attention from the developers than anyone, so if anything you could argue they are Wiaboos.

How so? I honestly don't see how they relate. I thought the races of the Akavir continent were supposed to represent Asian culture?

 

See, you are putting the races of Nirn into single groups. Don't do that. One race in TES is not a representation of one group/faction/race/culture in real life. They all have parts from different groups (granted, the Nords may be the most singular one). So, you may find that a race is mainly inspired by one real life culture, but that still does not make them a representation of that culture. In the next game, a race that was predominantly East-Roman in the former game, could suddenly be more Medieval Western-European, and then suddenly turn into West-Roman in the next game (i.e the Imperials between Morrowind and Oblivion, and then Skyrim).