Faction specific karma messages

[calyps]

I'm very confused by the karma system in NV. Sometimes when I steal things I don't know who I'm offending. For instance, I'm in the correctional facility. When I steal am I stealing from the NCR (the original owners of the place) or the Powder Gangers (the current occupants)?

 

Also, when I kill a feral ghoul and it says I've gained karma, who is that karma with?

 

I'd love to see a mod that gave faction specific karma messages.

[HaikenEdge]

Pretty sure Karma is universal and fame that's faction specific; karma just measures how much good/evil you've done, in general.

[calyps]

Pretty sure Karma is universal and fame that's faction specific; karma just measures how much good/evil you've done, in general.

 

So you're telling me stealing from my vilified enemy gives me just as much negative karma as stealing from my idolized friends?

 

I call shenanigans.

 

Also, I've had my status with a particular faction drop suddenly after stealing something from them. That seems to indicate that there is some faction specific karmic effect.

Edited October 24, 2010 by calyps

[HaikenEdge]

Pretty sure Karma is universal and fame that's faction specific; karma just measures how much good/evil you've done, in general.

 

So you're telling me stealing from my vilified enemy gives me just as much negative karma as stealing from my idolized friends?

 

I call shenanigans.

 

Also, I've had my status with a particular faction drop suddenly after stealing something from them. That seems to indicate that there is some faction specific karmic effect.

Unfortunately, that's how it is. In Fallout, Karma has always been your overall ethical/moral leanings, whereas your reputation has been what changed from group to group. Granted, in the original Fallout games, stealing stuff doesn't affect Karma at all, only major things, like killing children or poisoning an entire city.

 

You standing with the faction probably dropped because you were observed jacking their stuff.

[csgators]

You standing with the faction probably dropped because you were observed jacking their stuff.

 

Yep, if they see you doing it you lose faction points as well as karma.

[calyps]

Pretty sure Karma is universal and fame that's faction specific; karma just measures how much good/evil you've done, in general.

 

So you're telling me stealing from my vilified enemy gives me just as much negative karma as stealing from my idolized friends?

 

I call shenanigans.

 

Also, I've had my status with a particular faction drop suddenly after stealing something from them. That seems to indicate that there is some faction specific karmic effect.

Unfortunately, that's how it is. In Fallout, Karma has always been your overall ethical/moral leanings, whereas your reputation has been what changed from group to group. Granted, in the original Fallout games, stealing stuff doesn't affect Karma at all, only major things, like killing children or poisoning an entire city.

 

You standing with the faction probably dropped because you were observed jacking their stuff.

 

I was in a room full of dead people. No one observed me. Stealing from a faction apparently affects your rep with them. But often when you're stealing you have no idea who you're stealing from. It would be a nice mod that let you keep track of that as it happens.

[calyps]

You standing with the faction probably dropped because you were observed jacking their stuff.

 

Yep, if they see you doing it you lose faction points as well as karma.

 

Crap. You know what probably happened? It took the game a minute to figure out combat was over and in that minute I went my merry way stealing stuff. Then when it did end combat it updated my standing with the gang I just slaughtered. The message popped up right after I swiped something. That's why it seemed like stealing lowered my standing.

 

So there is no connection between karma and any particular faction standing? If so, why have karma at all, as if people who don't know you can magically know if you're a bad guy or a nice guy because you have bad karma? Why not just limit it to faction standings and throw this silly pointless karma away? It just clutters the game with a system that has apparently very little effect on gameplay other than playing a nasty sound whenever you steal and playing a happy sound when you kill the right person.

[HaikenEdge]

You standing with the faction probably dropped because you were observed jacking their stuff.

 

Yep, if they see you doing it you lose faction points as well as karma.

 

Crap. You know what probably happened? It took the game a minute to figure out combat was over and in that minute I went my merry way stealing stuff. Then when it did end combat it updated my standing with the gang I just slaughtered. The message popped up right after I swiped something. That's why it seemed like stealing lowered my standing.

 

So there is no connection between karma and any particular faction standing? If so, why have karma at all, as if people who don't know you can magically know if you're a bad guy or a nice guy because you have bad karma? Why not just limit it to faction standings and throw this silly pointless karma away? It just clutters the game with a system that has apparently very little effect on gameplay other than playing a nasty sound whenever you steal and playing a happy sound when you kill the right person.

Personally never quite understood the Karma system myself; for a game that doesn't judge you, having a Karma system certainly seems to make them judge you, although you did get some really sweet titles when your Karma reached a certain level, like Defender of the Wastes or something like that. Would probably be appropriate if certain perks were acquired via the Karma system, because otherwise, it's like you said, the Karma system is a waste.

[calyps]

You standing with the faction probably dropped because you were observed jacking their stuff.

 

Yep, if they see you doing it you lose faction points as well as karma.

 

Crap. You know what probably happened? It took the game a minute to figure out combat was over and in that minute I went my merry way stealing stuff. Then when it did end combat it updated my standing with the gang I just slaughtered. The message popped up right after I swiped something. That's why it seemed like stealing lowered my standing.

 

So there is no connection between karma and any particular faction standing? If so, why have karma at all, as if people who don't know you can magically know if you're a bad guy or a nice guy because you have bad karma? Why not just limit it to faction standings and throw this silly pointless karma away? It just clutters the game with a system that has apparently very little effect on gameplay other than playing a nasty sound whenever you steal and playing a happy sound when you kill the right person.

Personally never quite understood the Karma system myself; for a game that doesn't judge you, having a Karma system certainly seems to make them judge you, although you did get some really sweet titles when your Karma reached a certain level, like Defender of the Wastes or something like that. Would probably be appropriate if certain perks were acquired via the Karma system, because otherwise, it's like you said, the Karma system is a waste.

 

Great. Before I just didn't understand karma in NV. Now I just hate it.

[Moogiefluff]

As a correction, and because I've posted about this myself before, your reputation IS affected even if nobody saw you. It has nothing to do with a combat timeout either, because I was not in combat when I tested this and nobody was around.

 

I'd love to see a mod that disentangles karma from reputation. I understand karma and why I lose it for stealing. I do not, on the other hand, understand a reputation loss for my stealth crimes. They don't know I did it, even if the universe does.