Help Request: pathgridding custom interiors, NPC A.I., and you

[Guinefort1]

Hello evreyone. Remember this thread?:

 

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2496344-help-request-custom-npcs-incorrectly-spawning-in-interior-cell/

 

This is its sequel. The project that you originally read about there had to be rebuilt from a much earlier stage due to issues. While I have taken the time to read over pathgridding to make sure I understand the process, I am still encountering problems. This time, the A.I. will not recognize the pathgridding and just stand around like idiots, despite my efforts to install the pathgridding correctly. Here are some failed fixes that I have tried:

• I have made sure that I pushed the f-key to drop every single node I placed, so that the nodes are flush with the floor like they are supposed to be
• I have scrapped and rebuilt the pathgridding on these custom interior cells multiple times (using the f-key all the way through)
• I have scrapped and rewritten the A.I. on the custom NPCs for these cells multiple times
• I have removed and re-placed the NPCs into these cells in order to refresh them multiple times
• I have tried removing the throw rugs and rebuilding the pathgridding, in case the throw rugs were creating interference

Please note that besides not moving, the A.I. seems to be working—the NPCs are still offering their services as trainers and merchants like they are supposed to. Please only respond if you are knowledgeable about pathgridding and A.I. programming. Please do not link me to any generic tutorials unless they specifically address this issue. I have already consulted this tutorial: Category:Path Grids - The Elder Scrolls Construction Set Wiki and pretty much every page on pathgridding that I could find on the wiki.

 

Thanks,

 

Guinefort1

[The_Vyper]

That sounds more like an AI problem than a pathing one. We'll need an example of how your AI packages are set up. A useful template would be to choose one uncooperative NPC, click on its AI button and tell us the following:

 

1. The NPC's energy level.

2. How many AI packages there are.

3. What type of packages (Wander, Sleep, Eat, Travel, etc.)

4. What time (if any) each package is set to start and what the duration is for each one.

5. What flags are checked for each package (Continue If PC Near, Always Run, Offer Services, etc.).

6. The order in which the AI packages appear from top to bottom.

 

Other questions:

A. Has ownership of the cell been assigned? If so, are the NPCs part of the owning faction?

B. Have you tried using a clean save?

C. Have you tried opening the console, clicking on an errant NPC, and typing EVP (evaluate package)?

D. Have you tried punching one of the NPCs to see if he/she will chase you around the cell? And no, I'm not joking about that.

[Guinefort1]

Thank you for your response. To answer your questions:

1. Energy level = 50
2. Number of A.I. packages = 1 (at the moment)
3. Type of package = wander
4. Time and duration = starts at 6am and continues 24 hours a day
5. Flagged A.I. options = offers services (more on this below)
6. Order = that should be obvious
7. Cell ownership = same faction as custom NPCs belong to
8. Clean save = no change in behavior
9. EVP console command = reads as NPC’s name Picked Package wander ()
10. Activating combat = punching them makes them fight back and approach character (more on this below)

For giggles, I tried a second A.I. flagging configuration, tagging “Continue if PC near” in addition to “Offers Services,” the only result of which was the NPCs would stand still when I was close, but try to walk toward me whenever I was beyond a certain range (leaving “Continue if PC near” unchecked caused them to stand still regardless of where I was.) Concerning the assault, doesn’t entering combat override usual pathgridding behavior anyway?

Edited February 3, 2015 by Guinefort1

[Striker879]

Isn't standing in one place one of the "features" of offer services? You generally see the vendors standing in one spot as long as they are offering services. If you nudge them off their "spot" they do what they can to move back onto it. The only exceptions that come to mind are Nilphas Omelian and Aurelinwae from the Fighters Stronghold and Wizards Tower DLCs. If you have those DLCs take a look at what is done differently with those two compared to all the other vendors.

 

- Edit - And what's the radius on the wander package?

Edited February 3, 2015 by Striker879

[Guinefort1]

I had forgotten about the offering service making NPCs stand in one place thing. I don’t have the Stronghold or Wizard’s Tower DLCs, so I’ll peak at some vanilla trainer A.I. to see if I’m missing anything. Shoving the custom NPCs around has no effect—they continue to stand wherever they are as if nothing has happened. These NPCs have no radius set for their wandering—they are set to wander the cell, rather than a predefined radius. But I will try that too on the off chance that it works.

[Striker879]

I notice in the UOP changes log that they have changed a lot of AI packages for various NPCs from being "in cell" to either "current location" or "editor location" as appropriate for that individual NPC. I have never used in cell for a wander as I seem to recall something about it causing problems (probably some tutorial I read long ago).

 

So what you've just said is your NPCs are doing exactly what you've told them ... wander in the cell with zero radius (i.e. stand in one spot). Doesn't matter whether the package is "in cell", "current location" or "editor location", you need to give a positive number radius if you don't want them rooted to one spot (try 64 and see if you want larger or smaller ... and I'd go with editor location if that is where you've dropped them in the CS).

Edited February 3, 2015 by Striker879

[Guinefort1]

I notice in the UOP changes log that they have changed a lot of AI packages for various NPCs from being "in cell" to either "current location" or "editor location" as appropriate for that individual NPC. I have never used in cell for a wander as I seem to recall something about it causing problems (probably some tutorial I read long ago).

 

So what you've just said is your NPCs are doing exactly what you've told them ... wander in the cell with zero radius (i.e. stand in one spot). Doesn't matter whether the package is "in cell", "current location" or "editor location", you need to give a positive number radius if you don't want them rooted to one spot (try 64 and see if you want larger or smaller ... and I'd go with editor location if that is where you've dropped them in the CS).

I'll give that a try and see what happens. Worst comes to worst, I'll be no worse off than before. It seems odd though, that I would need to define a wander radius like that, as I never did that for Order of the Lamp and that mod worked as programmed. Eh, whatever. I'll get back to you once I have the results. Thanks.

[Guinefort1]

Update: I think I got it figured out. I gave the wander package a set radius rather than just a wander cell and added a sleep package to see if other packages were “misbehaving.” The wander package is working in the custom cell now that it has a manually set radius. The sleep package works too, so I know that the whole thing isn’t completely borked. I’m starting to suspect that the small and confined nature of the custom hut was concealing the wander package, making it look like the wander packages weren’t working when they were technically were. As embarrassing as it is, I glad that this turned out to be a simple problem (namely: I don’t know what the hell I doing :sweat: ), rather than a difficult one. I apologize if I inadvertently wasted your time. Thank you both for your help and happy modding. :smile:

[IkeCoast]

Wasting our time, Guinefort? Not at all! I personally am very interested in NPCs AI, as Striker very well know, and I have learned a thing or two from your posts lately.

 

If you want to have fun with AI packages, put a bunch of conflicting packages on an NPC and watch what happens. I made this mistake when creating my first Companion and the results were... pintoresque. You can try him indeed, since I uploaded him here at the Nexus.

 

But back to "wasting our time", we had a good time trying to help you figure what was wrong with your NPCs. So don't apologize. The only thing that can put Striker and I out of our nerves are people who refuse to read readmes.

 

Try it, ask Striker something that is already explained in a Readme and then watch his reaction. From safely afar, that is.

 

Cheers!

Edited February 4, 2015 by IkeCoast

[Guinefort1]

Wasting our time, Guinefort? Not at all! I personally am very interested in NPCs AI, as Striker very well know, and I have learned a thing or two from your posts lately.

 

If you want to have fun with AI packages, put a bunch of conflicting packages on an NPC and watch what happens. I made this mistake when creating my first Companion and the results were... pintoresque. You can try him indeed, since I uploaded him here at the Nexus.

 

But back to "wasting our time", we had a good time trying to help you figure what was wrong with your NPCs. So don't apologize. The only thing that can put Striker and I out of our nerves are people who refuse to read readmes.

 

Try it, ask Striker something that is already explained in a Readme and then watch his reaction. From safely afar, that is.

 

Cheers!

Thanks man. The fun, and sometimes infuriating, thing about modding is that every new concept you explore provides a new challenge. Some of them with a steeper learning curve than others. Being forced to get down and dirty with the details can really help you learn it though. And if it helps me as well as helps someone else, then it’s all worth it in the end. I don’t know where I would be without all of you troubleshooting regulars. Thanks to you all and happy modding. :laugh: