Dawn of Steel-The Rise of the Mojave Brotherhood

[devinpatterson]

<RESERVED>

[devinpatterson]

Moved from the Viva NV-Independent New Vegas thread

 

I'd also like to explore a side project that is related to the Viva NV independent mod....a alternative choice featuring the BOS.

 

#1 I'd like to expand a bit on the Mojave BOS both graphically and in re: to lore. For example, some new models from mixing BOS robes and power armor to create something akin to a knight's tunic (Something to spice up not just the power armor but also recon armor) and perhaps some new ranks instead of just paladin, knight etc.

 

#2 I'd like to explore the possibility of and independent ending by the courier and his/her new knighthood (or at least induction) of the BOS resulting in uplifting the Mojave chapter from a minor to a major faction. Essentially giving the option of acquiring the crown jewel of the Mojave, for the brotherhood with the courier as their standard bearer/champion (so to speak). While the developers have emphasized the west coast BOS's dwindling significance, I believe under McNamara, that the Mojave chapter is a different beast from the remnants of their brethren in the core region. And few factions are as well suited, technologically speaking, as the BOS for utilizing Robco technologies and other assets.

[devinpatterson]

Alright, I've got some free time now. Let me get some quick thoughts down:

 

1. The Fort: I think that among the Brotherhood's first actions would be to seize the Fort, both because of its utility and because of how extraordinarily dangerous it could be in the hands of any other faction. As time went on, I think they'd try to boot it up and mass-produce the Securitrons, which they'd repaint in Brotherhood colours and use as support for their Paladins. (In which case, can we get a Brotherhood retexture for the Securitrons up in here? I imagine them having a new face, too - maybe something akin to a knight's helmet).

 

2. The Strip: I've got mixed feelings here. The Brotherhood would likely secure it for their own ends, but I'm kinda unsure as to what would happen next - while militaristic, I don't think they'd see fit to completely shut it down. I frankly suspect they'd leave the Courier to run it. Oh, and they'd completely loot the Lucky 38 of anything technological.

 

3. The Dam: The Brotherhood would definitely immediately re-occupy the Dam, and probably park a significant military force there to boot. With their technology, I suspect they'd have it up-and-running pretty quickly. They'd also probably get some of the other gear there running, too.

 

4. HELIOS One: They lost it once, they're not doing it again. I suspect that they'd return their base of operations to here, and probably heavily-fortify it this time - I kinda have this image of them turning HELIOS into their 'castle' of sorts, which I can expand more on later. I think it would be up to the player whether to hand over Euclid's C-Finder to them; however, if the player reveals that they have it, they'd either need to hand it over or the Brotherhood would open fire.

 

5. Nellis AFB: This is where things get interesting. They're not too positively-inclined towards the Boomers, I should think, since they lost two Paladins to artillery fire; I think it'd be up to the player to smooth things over, or else pick a side. If the player sided with the Brotherhood, they'd probably be asked to sneak into Nellis, then sabotage the Boomer's guns, after which the Brotherhood would launch a raid on the base. After the raid, heavy artillery would likely appear at other Brotherhood positions around the place.

 

6. Brotherhood - Internal Culture: I think that the Brotherhood's culture would, out of necessity, evolve under the Courier's influence - becoming more accepting of the outside world, at the very least. I think that with a high enough Speech or Science skill, the Courier could influence them into giving away technology to help with agriculture, robotics, etc. Maybe, with a 100 Speech/Science skill, the Courier could even convince them to start taking in external volunteers, significantly increasing the number of Brotherhood personnel in the Mojave? It's clear that McNamara's thinking is already going that way, as of the end of the game.

 

There's more, but I can't really think of anything right now.

 

Actually, there is one thing. If you're looking for some neat melee weapons for our elite unit, check out Bingle's Melee Collection. It's an awesome mod, and there's permission to use it however we want, which would be handy for our melee squad.

 

I've got something of an idea for them. You see, it's mentioned in passing that when the lockdown of the Hidden Valley bunker was initiated, nobody was allowed out - or in. Meaning that whoever was locked out, stayed that way. I always thought it was a great plot point that was never actually expanded upon.

 

Therefore, I'm considering making our unit the 'Knights of HELIOS'. A group of Brotherhood warriors who didn't make it to Hidden Valley in time, and instead, retreated to an outside location. Without the gear to fully maintain their equipment, they mounted tabards over their armour to help keep out the Mojave sands, and took up advanced but semi-improvised melee weapons of all sorts in place of their energy weapons (since they'd've been running low on ammunition anyway). Ever since, they've been on the run from the NCR - until the NCR suddenly retreated from the region following the Battle of Hoover Dam, and they headed home, to find that the lockdown had finally ended.

 

Thoughts?

[devinpatterson]

Disclaimer, this is all really preliminary, I havn't had a chance to give it a lot of thought yet. But here goes;

 

1. The Fort: I think that among the Brotherhood's first actions would be to seize the Fort, both because of its utility and because of how extraordinarily dangerous it could be in the hands of any other faction.

Yeah the Fort would definitely be a very high priority for them. Partially because of the fort itself (being a military fortification) but primarily due to the securitron vault (if still in existence).

 

As time went on, I think they'd try to boot it up and mass-produce the Securitrons,

I'v pretty much 86'd the idea of the vault being a factory. Essentially I want to balance the power of the securitrons and being able to produce more, especially mass production, doesn't help in that regard. They'r already a powerful force and I'd like the player to *earn* (make allies, raise militias or armies, etc) more power, instead of having it at the touch of a button. I'd like that to be the same for both the independent and BOS endings.

 

which they'd repaint in Brotherhood colours and use as support for their Paladins. (In which case, can we get a Brotherhood retexture for the Securitrons up in here? I imagine them having a new face, too - maybe something akin to a knight's helmet).

Sure BOS retextures are fine, might work well with the securitrons army as they may have new(ish) textures.....since they've been in storage and havn't needed to weather the elements. In regards to their screen, a knight is certainly a possibility, but also keep in mind that they don't necessarily have to follow a cartoon caricature (like the policemen or soldiers). That's more of the default icons from whatever version of the Robco OS they have. The BOS could put anything on them, like maybe just a BOS crest on screen. But whatever looks good.

 

 

2. The Strip: I've got mixed feelings here. The Brotherhood would likely secure it for their own ends, but I'm kinda unsure as to what would happen next - while militaristic, I don't think they'd see fit to completely shut it down. I frankly suspect they'd leave the Courier to run it. Oh, and they'd completely loot the Lucky 38 of anything technological.

Yeah I think the BOS would be fairly perplexed about what to do with it. So in the interest of the game, workload etc I suspect we'll leave it mostly the same (some BOS patrolling instead of NCR military police). That should create some really, really interesting tension with the strip families.

 

Regarding the Lucky 38, I think some of the most important equipment can't really be stripped per se. The basement reactor and lucky 38 mainframe are two of the most valuable systems and I don't think they can easily be detached or moved, nor should they. The mainframe in particular is essential for the securitron wireless network, and the reactor (once started) will provide energy independence for NV (no need to rely on Hoover any more). So I suspect the BOS will instead occupy the 38 (or at the *very least* the penthouse and basement). The penthouse could be the BOS central command for the city (the mainframe is there to monitor anything the securitrons see). The presidential suite can be for the player and his/her (bos) retainers as well as normal followers. I'm guessing the cocktail lounge would serve the same function as personnel quarters if they drag some bunks up there.

 

The option to open the lucky 38 to the public can probably be accomplished due to teh players influence, but I'm sure the BOS would greatly prefer to keep it closed. It's no fun having a spy sneak a suitcase nuke into your command operations.

 

3. The Dam: The Brotherhood would definitely immediately re-occupy the Dam, and probably park a significant military force there to boot. With their technology, I suspect they'd have it up-and-running pretty quickly. They'd also probably get some of the other gear there running, too.

Yeah it's a high value target and important to safeguard. It is currently running, but I suspect you meant running at higher efficiency. I think it's also possible that if the BOS and NCR signed the peace treaty the BOS could provide h20 and juice to the NCR at teh same rates as House/independent invoices.

 

4. HELIOS One: They lost it once, they're not doing it again. I suspect that they'd return their base of operations to here, and probably heavily-fortify it this time - I kinda have this image of them turning HELIOS into their 'castle' of sorts, which I can expand more on later. I think it would be up to the player whether to hand over Euclid's C-Finder to them; however, if the player reveals that they have it, they'd either need to hand it over or the Brotherhood would open fire.

Yeah I think it makes a good primary base too. With the Archimedes I defensive weapon it has decent protection. Regarding teh C-finder I don't think they'd initiate hostilities if the player didn't give it back.......since the courier is handing over so much to the BOS. But undoubtedly they'd rather have it under lock and key then bouncing around the wastelands.

 

I'll try to catch up with your other points soon.

 

Oh and if it hasn't been touched on yet, I'd say the bunker becomes a new BOS outpost. Something more than a skeleton crew, but still a relatively small staff.

[devinpatterson]

I do like the idea of restoring the BoS to it's former glory and is something that I also want to pursue. What are you're views on given them access to Big Mt and Hopeville though? That would allow for a completely new range of advanced weapons to pour into the Mojave and have a logical reason for being there, unlike finding it in a box in Goodsprings like what every other weapon modder on the Nexus does.

 

So let's say the Courier is a Paladin and accepts the ideology full on, what happens to all the other side hustles the Courier has going on. I always end up with way too much money than I could ever spend and want to invest it wisely, so would we be able to set up some form or arms manufacturing? Or Armour manufacturing? With access to Saturnite Alloys, imagine what could be built in terms of military technology alone!

 

The best chance for the BoS to interact with the local population and come full circle as Roger Maxson wanted is to keep McNamara in charge. He might not be on the same level as Lyons but there is better hope for the BoS to bounce back under McNamara and the Couriers influence.

 

Do you have solutions to recruitment? Maybe Lyons BoS or even Brotherhood Outcasts from DC could bolster the ranks if you can get word to them somehow.

I think we all agree that HELIOS One will be retaken by the BoS also.

[Degby1]

Ah good, new topic, given that this will help focus on the BoS exclusively.

 

Here are 3 things everyone so far has agreed on - 1: Making use of The Fort, 2: Retaking HELIOS One, 3: Expanding the influence of the BoS in general. I think we're all on the same page with what should be done with regards to the BoS and the Lucky 38.

 

Me and MarchUntoTorment also like the idea of a BoS-Boomers alliance. I think it would make sense and would provide a good quest that reaps rewards. I'm implementing this into my own mod (although it's not a direct Boomer-BoS alliance, but an alliance between those 2 and a 3rd group). I think the Dam would definitely require some form of safeguarding, although how much of a priorty this is to the BoS I'm not sure.

 

I'm in agreement with Devin, that the BoS wouldn't gun the Courier down for not handing over Euclids C Finder. Especially if the BoS are given Helios, The Fort, Big Mt and Hopeville or atleast exclusive access to those locations.

[sullyvanj93]

I agree about your thoughts with the strip. The BOS wouldn't really have much interest with it. Maybe they give the strip and freeside to the player's discretion as payment for helping them secure all the other areas? especially if the player is PART of the brotherhood, I don't see why they wouldn't relinquish control over a (in their eyes) worthless area. caps never were big for them.

[MarchUntoTorment]

A few things that we should address -

 

1. The Knights of HELIOS - What're your thoughts on them, Devin? I'm quite taken with them, and would quite like to actually create them as NPCs - write them up, their backstories, etc. etc. I think they'd make an interesting group to focus a few small quests around.

 

2. Recruitment - What do we do here? I think that, out of necessity and under the Courier's influence (since the Courier's set precedent by being appointed a Paladin), the Brotherhood would begin recruiting locals. My question is, what sort of people would they try to recruit?

 

3. The Fort - I agree with you about the Securitrons, Devin, and having given it some more thought, maybe the Brotherhood would try to repurpose its machinery to mass-produce weapons and armour? A lot of the components from the manufactory (the Securitron gatling lasers, the motor servos, and their armour plate) could quite easily be used to produce new sets of power armour, or produce components to refurbish damaged sets. Plus, it fits better with their attitude.

 

4. HELIOS One - I imagine, as I said, them fortifying it heavily. Remember that, as we see it in-game, it's just got some sandbags and a chain-link fence surrounding it. I imagine the Brotherhood building up vast scrap walls, reinforcing the exterior of the structure, and positioning automated turrets at numerous points around the perimeter. Maybe constructing 'guard towers' from which to position Paladins. I imagine that the result would look like a bastardised hybrid between HELIOS One, the NCRCF and The Citadel.

 

5. Euclid's C-Finder - Yeah, having given it some more thought (and given McNamara's precedent of not shooting the Courier during Veronica's quest), I think that they'd let the Courier live. Although you'd get a lot of Brotherhood rep for giving them the C-Finder, I imagine.

 

6. The Dam - I think they'd hold the place as best they could, and improve its efficiency. The Brotherhood are very interested in the power of electricity, partially due to its value in the maintenance of their facilities. Plus, it'd give them military supremacy over the region, and a trump card to use to force the NCR into a truce.

 

7. Reinforcements - It's occurred to me that with an open chapter of the Brotherhood now in control of a substantial and tech-heavy region, it's quite possible that other surviving Brotherhood chapters in the West who'd gone underground after the war with the NCR might make their way to the Mojave, to bolster the Brotherhood there. Maybe even ex-Brotherhood soldiers who integrated into the NCR, akin to the Enclave Remnants, would join the Mojave chapter. Thoughts?

Edited February 18, 2015 by MarchUntoTorment

[devinpatterson]

I do like the idea of restoring the BoS to it's former glory and is something that I also want to pursue. What are you're views on given them access to Big Mt and Hopeville though? That would allow for a completely new range of advanced weapons to pour into the Mojave and have a logical reason for being there, unlike finding it in a box in Goodsprings like what every other weapon modder on the Nexus does.

&

so would we be able to set up some form or arms manufacturing? Or Armour manufacturing? With access to Saturnite Alloys, imagine what could be built in terms of military technology alone!

I think with the knowledge the player has of the DLC environments/lands, and the advanced technological know how of the BOS, the DM, OWB & LR DLCs all have the potential to draw the brotherhood.

 

But in general when we're discussing *manufacturing* advanced technologies I'm skeptical. The BOS has been around since shortly after the great war and while they scavenge and horde pre-war and high tech I don't think they actually produce or manufacturer a lot of it. In roughly 200 years, as nearly the dominant tech faction (only surpassed by the enclave) they'r best armor is still pre-war T-51b. Their best weapons? Still pre-war tech. The quarter master (Torres) is fastidious in tracking and accounting for their limited weapons cache.

 

There are exceptions like Elijah and his holorifle, but Elijah was an exception in many, many ways.

 

Plus when we allow the mass production of high tech, we cheapen it's intrinsic value. These are items from the old world, a age long passed, where it seemed anything was possible.

 

I'm inclined to leave the high tech treasures of the BigMT, Divide and Sierria Madre as treasures to be scavenged, but not reproduced. That's not to say that some new items or modified items won't come of the DLCs, but it shouldn't be in large quantities. More like prototypes. For example maybe a scribe is working on Saturnite reinforced power armor and there could be a quest to teh facility in OWB for research and materials. But that shouldn't turn into a new standard of armor for the BOS. It tips game balance and cheapens the wonders of the old world. I believe that better fits the spirit of all fallout games.

 

I have touched on LR and a bit on the BOS in the divide in a few threads; The Divide Expanded, the independent NV thread around page 114, and the Divide reborn.

 

The Divide is still full of pre-war military armaments, and I believe the BOS may set up a temporary camp in the hopeville missile silo/bunker to make their sorties from. They may also see it as their duty to take care of any remaining ICBM's (it would reflect their ideology of preventing high tech from falling into other hands). There are other advanced technologies (like the pod that created the ed-e clone), but I think the emphasis would be on filling their armory.

 

Tangentially related, I want\wanted to add a small group of marked men who were former BOS members to the divide. Essentially getting caught at teh same time\calamity that the ncr and legion troops were. In the areas that their power armor was exposed they would have the marked men skinless flesh, and of course be tougher in some respects (damaged power armor, but still higher AC than most marked men).

 

For dead money, the holograms were a huge draw for Elijah (enough so that he left the BigMT to pursue the technology) and I suspect will be just as enticing to the BOS.

 

For OWB who knows, that place is *stupid* with tech. Insanity reigns.

 

So let's say the Courier is a Paladin and accepts the ideology full on, what happens to all the other side hustles the Courier has going on. I always end up with way too much money than I could ever spend and want to invest it wisely,

I think a lot of the same possibilities for the Independent thread would still apply to this thread. You can still build up infrastructure, weather that's weapons (just not advance high tech ones), trade, a healthy militia etc if you want to do some good with your caps. This would primarily benefit the NV area and various Moajave towns much more than the brotherhood directly. I don't think it's out of the question for the courier to be granted a title like lord of NV or steward of NV (can't remember what the best medieval equivalent would be), where many of the duties, obligations and privileges would be enjoyed by the player in NV proper/the strip.

 

The best chance for the BoS to interact with the local population and come full circle as Roger Maxson wanted is to keep McNamara in charge. He might not be on the same level as Lyons but there is better hope for the BoS to bounce back under McNamara and the Couriers influence.

I'm not sure that is really representative of the BOS's ideology. That may have been Roger Maxon's intent in forming the BOS, but by the time of fallout 1 adn the master's wake the BOS ruled against sharing their technology with outsiders (those that disagreed eventually split into teh midwestern chapter). In fact that was a key point in the BOS/NCR war;

 

 

By 2231, Jeremy Maxson had assumed the position of High Elder. Vocal in his ideas of pushing Brotherhood operations eastward, Maxson was also notably aggressive in his hoarding of pre-War technology. The High Elder sought to restore the Brotherhood of Steel to power by wresting any and all advanced technology from the hands of lesser people by any means necessary. Naturally, this led to disputes with the New California Republic, which had always been in favor of utilizing advanced technology for the benefit of society. Not long after the destruction of the Enclave, conflict erupted between the Brotherhood and the NCR.

 

 

 

But Veronica and (oddly enough) Elijah did/do believe in utilizing the BOS's tech for the betterment of mankind at large. And I do believe your right, that McNamara has at least the potential to be swayed in that regard. If Hardin is in charge most of what we're considering for this thread is dead anyway, he's a hardliner that will follow some of the worst of the BOS's faults and failings.

 

Do you have solutions to recruitment? Maybe Lyons BoS or even Brotherhood Outcasts from DC could bolster the ranks if you can get word to them somehow.

I think we all agree that HELIOS One will be retaken by the BoS also.

I think it's unlikely that we'll see recruitment from the east coast, it strikes me as unrealistic. I also think any west coast recruits are very unlikely as this quote paints their situation in the core region as rather grim "Having lost the surface, the Brotherhood prepared themselves to fight to the death as the NCR began to invade their bunkers." But outside recruits were discussed in the BOS's past, with some elders championing it (during the midwestern split), so I think that is a possibility.

Edited February 18, 2015 by devinpatterson

[devinpatterson]

Me and MarchUntoTorment also like the idea of a BoS-Boomers alliance. I think it would make sense and would provide a good quest that reaps rewards. I'm implementing this into my own mod (although it's not a direct Boomer-BoS alliance, but an alliance between those 2 and a 3rd group).

I may have misunderstood, but I think MarchUntoTorment wasn't suggesting a BOS-Boomers alliance, rather the destruction of the Boomes by the BOS (and with a little help, pre-battle by the courier);

 

asked to sneak into Nellis, then sabotage the Boomer's guns, after which the Brotherhood would launch a raid on the base.

A alliance with the Boomers is probably more difficult than most factions. They are one of, if not *the* most xenophobic faction in NV.

 

5. Nellis AFB: This is where things get interesting. They're not too positively-inclined towards the Boomers, I should think, since they lost two Paladins to artillery fire; I think it'd be up to the player to smooth things over, or else pick a side. If the player sided with the Brotherhood, they'd probably be asked to sneak into Nellis, then sabotage the Boomer's guns, after which the Brotherhood would launch a raid on the base. After the raid, heavy artillery would likely appear at other Brotherhood positions around the place.

Well we do need to keep in mind, as Devilman stated, that this isn't really common knowledge, and I doubt McNamara want's hostilities with teh Boomers. They mostly stick to themselves and they are heavily armed. They are one of the few groups that can take out a substantial proportion of the securitron forces (their artillery). That may not be S you want to stir up.

 

6. Brotherhood - Internal Culture: I think that the Brotherhood's culture would, out of necessity, evolve under the Courier's influence - becoming more accepting of the outside world, at the very least. I think that with a high enough Speech or Science skill, the Courier could influence them into giving away technology to help with agriculture, robotics, etc. Maybe, with a 100 Speech/Science skill, the Courier could even convince them to start taking in external volunteers, significantly increasing the number of Brotherhood personnel in the Mojave? It's clear that McNamara's thinking is already going that way, as of the end of the game.

Certainly the Mojave chapter is more flexibile under McNamara than most. And I too believe that McNamara could be convinced to help in the form of non military/civilian technology like agriculture or more likely imparting the knowledge of. Although I doubt it would still be a primary focus for them.

 

Yeah there was a split in the BOS regarding outsiders and there is precendent in the midwestern chapter (the original BOS members that proposed recruitment and crashed near Chicago). The capital wasteland BOS recruit locals, so I think that's the most realistic, practical source of new blood.

 

My question is, what sort of people would they try to recruit?

Initially it might be extraordinary people of great ability without ties to an existing faction (or have given up their allegiance). But at some point, when they feel their position in the Mojave is very secure they make take a page from the capital BOS adn not just help wastelanders but recruit them as well. A lot will depend on the degree of pushback from hardliners like Hardin and those aligned with him. If it happens, recruitment won't be easy and it won't be quick due to those conservative elements. Blowback may make the paladin ambush in "I could make you care" look quaint, possibly even resulting in a situation similar to the Capital wasteland's BOS Outcasts. "The Outcasts attributed their departure to their belief that Elder Lyons had lost sight of the Brotherhoods true mission, and the reason for their presence in the Capital Wasteland: the discovery and acquisition of advanced pre-War technology." The courier could play a large part in allaying, intimidating or reasoning with those disruptive conservative views, especially since s/he is effectively the savior of the chapter. The couriers actions will probably be the best measurement of the BOS's evolution.

 

1. The Knights of HELIOS - What're your thoughts on them, Devin? I'm quite taken with them, and would quite like to actually create them as NPCs - write them up, their backstories, etc. etc. I think they'd make an interesting group to focus a few small quests around.

There was a period of time that the bunker was completely sealed, but apparently that time passed several years ago, and they've been under less restrictions (but still limited flow in or out). I tend to think anyone that hand't returned when the bunker opened back up, was dead and might be the various paladins you find the holo tapes for, in "Still in the Dark". But I could be wrong about that. Or if your simply really enamored with the story line you'll have to figure out a plot that convincingly explains why the late comers stayed in self imposed exile (at least until this point in time).

 

I'll try to address more of your points soon.