Is there a way to move a persistent reference object (door) in the game

[chambcra]

I'm a beginner and I wonder if there is a trick to do it so it moves in the game? I've edited the terrain to make it flat around the Red Rose Manor and lowered the house but I guess the door locations are stored in the save game along with everything else that has a persistent reference. I guess I could uninstall the mod - save game - reinstall but I wonder how the creators go back and forth between the game and the CS and tweak these things?

[Striker879]

Clean save or new game ... load door locations are stored in the save.

[IkeCoast]

By the way, uninstalling a mod is not the same as deleting a save game. You don't need to uninstal the mod to start a new game without the persistent reference fixed. Just start a new game. And if you don't want to start a new game, simply make a clean save: go to another cell (one not touched by the mod), make sure you do not have in your inventory any object that comes from this mod (if you have, put them in a respawning container and wait 72 in-game hours -in a different cell- and one extra hour just to be sure.

 

Then go to a secure location (coc center for instance), and save there. Exit the game.

 

Now simply deactivate the mod, no need for uninstalling it. Load the savegame at the secure location and ignore the warning about missing content. Once the game is loaded, do not move from where you are and save in a new slot. Exit the game. I mean, exit the game to your WIndows desktop.

 

Wait some time in real time, or even shut your computer off and leave it off five minutes so the memory is purged from any remains Oblivion left there (I discovered the hard way that some information is stored both in the RAM and the paged memory and loaded the next time I load the game). Restart your computer, start the game, load the last created savegame, move around a little, wait two in-game hours, then save in a new slot and exit the game.

 

Now there's no need to restart the computer, simply wait five minutes and start the game, load the last savegame (never overwrite saves when creating a clean save), fast travel to anywhere you want BUT the location where the mod will put the persistent reference, and you're ready to go.

 

Cheers!

[chambcra]

Thanks for the replies. I'm a bit confused though. If I deactivate the mod, follow the clean save procedure, then when I get to the part ("and you're ready to go.") I assume I reactivate the mod, right? Isn't that effectively uninstalling and reinstalling? When I said "uninstall the mod - save game - reinstall" I didn't necessarily mean removing the files, just deactivate and reactivate.

 

That's interesting what you said, "that some information is stored both in the RAM and the paged memory." I would think that the information in the saved game on disk should override that but who knows what windows might do sometimes. That could explain some unexplainable things that have happened to me.

 

I was hoping I could change the Z value of the door location using a hex editor on a saved file but searching for the original value didn't find it. If I could find a detailed format of the saved game files that might be the easiest.

 

Thanks

[Striker879]

Not sure if it will work but try this. Stand in front of the door you want to move and open the console (hit the tilde (~) key found right below the Esc key on standard keyboards). At the console prompt type "setdebugtext 31" (without the quote marks) and hit Enter. With the console still open use your mouse to click on the door. Now type "tdt" (again without the quotes) and hit Enter.

Your screen will now have a bunch of info on it (can't recall off-hand if you need to close the console first for it to show or not ... closing the console is just hit tilde again). You should see the X, Y and Z coordinates for the door somewhere in all the info. Open the console and with the door's reference ID still showing at the top of the screen type "setpos z ######" without the quotes of course and with the ###### replaced by the Z position shown by toggle debug text minus some amount (so if tdt showed the Z position as 314.2244 try 304.2244 ... just looking see if the door will change position here). If it does change then keep adjusting until you get it where you want it (note ... if your "house move" also moved the house in X or Y those will need to be adjusted too). Make a new save (NOT overwriting your original) and exit. I suggest an exit to desktop and restart , and then see if the door is in the new position or not.

Personally I'm not optimistic that this will work ... seems too simple for it not to have been tried before, and if something like that works it'd be common knowledge by this point in the game's history.

- Edit 2 - See Chambra's posts further on for more info regarding how this works (i.e. successful or not, and what problems may result).

 

As to how house mod creators deal with the persistent door location thing I can't say from experience (I have run into the exact same thing you're facing when I tried changing the entrance elevation of Aranmathi long ago, which is how I found out about the save game/location issue). What I would do when building a house is set all of the exterior to my complete satisfaction before putting the load doors in place. Also if you work from a save that doesn't have the house in it at all you've neatly avoided the issue (so work from a save made just prior to start of construction with your character in an adjacent cell ... every time you load the save after construction begins you just come to a more and more complete house, always working from that pre-construction save).

 

One of the hallmarks of any of Emma's mods is compatibility. The more you edit exterior landspaces the less compatibility you have. I know she had to work around some of the landscape issues when making and improving Red Rose (I follow all her mod's comments closely), and those workarounds would be done in the least intrusive/most compatible way possible. Lowering an entire hill doesn't fall into that category.

 

- Edit - Follow the link Bess provided below.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Striker879

[Bess]

I hope you don't mind my chiming in -- but there is also this very enlightening and informative tutorial by Arthmoor: Oblivion: Dealing With Persistent References. I know it helped my understanding a great deal.

[Striker879]

Bess, I may be Sir Links-a-Lot but you are the Lady of Useful Links (your CS Wiki backup link from yesterday was greatly appreciated). :thumbsup:

[chambcra]

Thanks for the replies Striker and Bess ( please do chime in.) I'm curious about the purpose of the lined-through text. That looks like the perfect thing for a hacker like me to try. It makes sense what you describe on how a modder can build and test as they go.

 

Thanks for the link Bess. I've spent some time reading that, which is very informative, and it makes me think I may be in over my head and should start considering a plan B.

 

The only reason I'm trying to do this is because I've added some of Emma's animals which are very cool but they have no traction and slide down the hill. They're all based on the sheep model, except the chickens, and the sheep model has no traction. I've posted at the Nif tools forum and it doesn't seem anyone knows anything about this traction issue. I've tried putting a fence across the slope and they all slide up against the fence and that's where they all stay except when the game occasionally teleports one to the other side of the fence and then it has an up-hill climb and a fence to get through to get back where it's supposed to be.

 

I'm also getting some crashes after being in the area for a while so I also have that to deal with. I could try flattening a smaller area that doesn't come near the house and see if that causes crashes. I was hoping to make an area as large as possible for the animals to wander and spread out (all the way around the house hopefully). I'm finding that too many animals in too small an area causes problems. It seems the game wants to spread them out when it loads the area, and above a certain number you suddenly find them all over the place.

 

Thanks

[Striker879]

Emma's Packdonkeys tend to slide down hills too. Could be a common "feature" with critters in Oblivion. Something to try in your critters wander package is to up their Energy (look at the top of the package window). I think that controls how likely they are to try moving to a new location (which may take them to a less slippery slope location).

 

I struck out my idea as after reading Arthmoor's description as I'm certain my experiment would only be another experiment ending in failure.

[chambcra]

That's good to know about the energy setting. I'll look into that. I was just thinking maybe I could bump up the speed of the cows and pigs because even though the sheep also have the sliding behavior they can maintain their position at the top of the hill where the cows and pigs can't.