FOMM Controversy Discussion

[spacialvekter]

This is probably going to be deleted, but I might as well speak my mind before I go and make another account.

 

There seems to be a lot of discussion on the Fallout Mod Manager page about the owner of the mod installing a Steam check to curb piracy. Since the mods seem to be ruthlessly banning people for even somewhat MENTIONING that they're running the game without Steam, I was hoping we could get a civilized discussion going here.

 

It has always been my personal opinion that piracy is not harming the industry as a whole. Yes, I understand how it takes money away from developers, but look at how much money the industry has been making. Gaming is one of the only forms of entertainment to not only keep but RAISE their gross worth during the recession. Gaming has seen, as a whole, excellent profits in the last few years, despite piracy being a huge factor.

 

Personally, I have no problem admitting that I download software. Call me what you want (Frankly, I couldn't care less what you think of me as a person), but I've been using BitTorrent to download games for ages, mainly to see if they're worth purchasing. If a game is good enough, I remove it from my hard drive and buy it. If not, I delete it and don't bother with it. Games are practically a major purchase these days, and as a college student I refuse to pay $60 on a gamble.

 

So, back on topic. Do you think modders should police the community? Do you think it's right at all for the owner of FOMM to inject a Steam check without even noting it on his page? Personally, I think he has the right to do with his code what he wants, but he should at least note that pirates cannot use his mod due to the check.

 

EDIT: Another thing I wanted to touch on is the rampant banning of people who even mention that they downloaded the game off of Steam. Using "Breaking the EULA" as a ban reason isn't valid, as the EULA says nothing about being banned from websites. While I acknowledge that you are allowed to do as you will with your website, I won't lie.

 

That's a dick move.

[bben46]

Another lame excuse to justify stealing. :rolleyes:

 

Our rules have nothing to do with what is or is not in the EULA about banning. They are OUR rules, not theirs.

 

So, you won't lie, but you will steal?

 

As you requested

Banned

Bben46, Moderator

[VekterTwo]

As I expected, I was banned. No big surprise. However, this thread still exists. My ideas still exist. And others share them with me.

 

You can ban anyone you want and delete anything you want. You aren't helping stop piracy in the least; just pissing off a lot of people at the same time. If I had posted instructions on how to bypass the FOMM Steam check, I could understand that. But, just like anywhere else, my opinions are against the norm and I am removed from the system to help keep the status quo.

 

and you're now banned again - TVD.

Edited November 14, 2010 by The Vampire Dante

[LadyMilla]

Vekter, you are totally misguided if you think the moderators here are protecting the status quo. They are protecting this website. If they are lenient and allow the discussion of cracks and such it only takes a single overzelous lawyer to do some hurt to Nexus. Not everybody has the amount of dollars to stand up against a well-founded or even a frivolous lawsuit filed by a giant publisher.

[Vagrant0]

You aren't helping stop piracy in the least; just pissing off a lot of people at the same time.

Our purpose is not to stop piracy... Only to keep it from rearing its ugly, misguided head within this community. This includes discussion of any act of stealing software, regardless of what that software is. The whole steam issue is just a new facet to all this, where people are turning to illegal and potentially dangerous methods of bypassing online verification just because they disagree with the methods of that verification. Even if they have bought, and own a copy of the game, in bypassing this online verification (through alteration of install files) they are breaking the agreement of the EULA and as a result are using that software without legal permission. You may own the software, but you have waived your right to use it by violating the terms of the EULA.

 

As steam can be launched in offline mode and allow full functionality of the game, there is no reason for any legal user of the game to need any means to bypass the steam check or launch. There are no natural means to bypass steam being launched, so any software which allows this, arguably is allowing people to play the game illegally. In certain cases, exceptions might be made if the utility in question absolutely needs to bypass this activity, but so far neither FOMM nor NVSE have needed to do anything related to blocking steam, so chances are that nothing will ever need to as a matter of function.

 

In comparison... FO3 had no copy protection beyond a CD check through the normal launcher (running from the .exe could bypass this directly) so including this functionality in FOMM was not so much allowed, but rather was a result of FOMM launching the game directly from the .exe. Oblivion had a CD check within the actual game .exe, and there were no native means of bypassing this check, so any software which did (including a version of OBSE if memory serves) was banned. Dragonage has both online verification with tie-in to a bioware account as well as a CD check, yet no tools hosted here allow either of these to be circumvented. Regardless of your reasons, this stuff is part of copy protection, and discussion of means to bypass it, or looking for help in solving any of the many problems which usually result from it are not allowed within this community.

 

All that aside, steam in offline mode requires a minimal amount of memory, and for those paranoid users out there, firewall rules can be configured to block all connection to and from steam. In this way, you can block steam from ever dialing home without permission, while still having the option to selectively connect to steam for updates by temporarily disabling those rules.

 

There is no controversy regarding FOMM. The authors of this software have, either because they can't, or don't care to, decided not to bypass the steam checks. The only problem here is that those who have illegally installed the game are not happy with this decision.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Vagrant0

[cyphreiredell]

Pretty sure the Steam check was to curb the number of complaints "FOMM NO WERK 4 ME" for people using incompatible mods that bypass Steam itself or are otherwise running a pirated version. Though I suppose the number of FONV updates already stops enough people.

 

For those who perceive those developers as attempting to 'police' the community:

1. Cry moar

2. Run Steam in Offline Mode

3. ?????

4. Profit

[muffildy]

I bought NV, i hate steam and all other DRM but am using steam because it is required. So while not currently using any hacked software i fully support any hackers out there that remove these annoyances if only to prove to companies that they are wasting valuable time in making them in the first place.

 

i dont see the point of the FOMM anyhow, the game has a mod selector of its own.

[LadyMilla]

I bought NV, i hate steam and all other DRM but am using steam because it is required. So while not currently using any hacked software i fully support any hackers out there that remove these annoyances if only to prove to companies that they are wasting valuable time in making them in the first place.

 

i dont see the point of the FOMM anyhow, the game has a mod selector of its own.

 

Maybe you should familiarize yourself with FOMM before passing a judgment. FOMM has much more to offer than the default mod selector.

[pikey1969]

Piracy is not really hurting the industry?

 

Is he KIDDING???

 

Piracy is 50% of the reason why the console industry is kicking PC industry inside out, when it has no business to be doing so.

 

Wasn't aware of the STEAM check in new FOMM, and god bless him for adding it in.

[n0rdi]

lol same Discusssion other game ...

in my opinion Bethsoft should overwatch their software and not a modder or mod-group

fomm and nvse both have this steam check who cares ? noone !

ppl that bought a game whine always about piracy only because they´ve payed ! not because its ruins the next fallout or other Project of the Game Developers

ps. I know my english sucks but i used it last time in school ^^

pps. yes i have a legal copy , if u want ban me pls email so u can check my steam

so on cry more legal copy owners

 

 

a funny patch note

0.13.14 fixes the following bugs:

 

* Fixed how FO:NV is launched, to ensure NVSE is loaded properly.

why dont tell truth :D