Skyrims kind of Fantasy bums me out

[LoneWolfEburg]

 

But those storylines tend to only be simple on the surface. Skyrims main quest is about a big evil Dragon returning right? Ooh, how original, you say. Until you learn the context, that Alduin exists to end the world and stop it from spiraling out of control, to reset time to prevent disaster.

This doesn't really have any effect on the way things progress, though. True, it's acknowledged by the Greybeards, but for all storyline intents and purposes, Alduin is an evil-want-to-destroy-the-world-bwahaha dragon. A lot of Skyrim setting has potential, but doesn't really deliver on the promises.

Edited March 20, 2015 by LoneWolfEburg

[Lachdonin]

Which is a general problem with TES storytelling across the board. It's depth tends to he burried in unrelated thing and rarely, if ever, brought up in the sidelines themeselves. The trade off being 7+ games worth of stories in one game.

[LoneWolfEburg]

True, although I still think they could've done much better (a couple of mods manage to do it just fine, and I actually think that Bethesda did a great job with the Dragonborn expansion - at least, its main quest and sidequests actually had an emotional effect on me the way few things in vanilla Skyrim did). As of now, I'd give Beth a B- on vanilla Skyrim storytelling (A- on Dragonborn, though - apparently, the more restricted landmass of the expansion allowed them to express their concepts slightly deeper, at least, to me).

Edited March 20, 2015 by LoneWolfEburg

[KaiHatia]

by N0mad

 

If you go off and do some of the side quests (the Nightengale ones from the Thieves Guild or any of the Daedric ones for instance) I think some stories that get tease out are really quite interesting, and even sketchy.

The Thiefs Guild at first made a good impression to me. As i said, liked the more darker setting, the Pig Farm Story and the british Cockney Accent. But then the Hangover kicked in. I was disapointed that they used the heavy effect of just accents on one single guy. In Witcher2(yeah, again) the british Accents are used quite well to underline the different class structures, because this is basicly what british accent is for in real life. Peasants talk like Cockneys, makes them more authentic as the common folk.

Also, when they opend the Door to their Tresure Room it just struck me. They steal all that s#*! to lock it into a Room in the Sewers and don't even check on it regularly? What are they gona do with it? Wouldn't all that thievery cause some kind of economical impact on the small Town of Riften? I was hopeing for more basic crime stuff then just breakins, like laundering some Money. I swear i thought at first this Honey Meat Brewery, or what the name was, should do that. Launder money for the Thiefs Guild. The Nightengale turn towards the end just bumed me, because i can't pull out and just have to accept. I was hopeing for the possibility to kill them all. Even in Fallout NV you have often the possibility to just kill everyone related to the Quest and cause some Chaos in Zion. The corrupt Guards who wanted Money from me at the entering(nice event) would surely help me to cover it up.

 

 

 

And countless dungeons later I still get the ebeejeebies when I pull my sword and enter into a new one.

Compared to Oblivion they did a better Job on the Dungeons this time, because now they tell a story each of their own. In Oblivion, when you have seen three or four max, you have seen them all.

 

 

Lachdonin

 

'Half cooked' means nothing.

No, half cooked means half cooked.

 

 

The Faction Questlines, the Foresworn Conspiracy, the Civil War, 99% of the odd-job quests, the Galdur Legend etc. have absolutely nothing to do with Dragons or the main quest line.

And these story lines are just a good example of half cooked. The Civil War in Skyrim feels very odd and even in the End, the Fort Conquering, becomes repetitive very fast. It misses so many elements that surround an actual war in a society like that. Even the Mustering Missions are just irrational. Instead of maybee requiering curtain Stats of Strengh and Speed or whatever, you need to go do a Dungeon and fight Ghosts. ( No Background Check.) This is something a Child would come up with when it has to concept some kind of dare. And then, nothing happens anyway. There was a mod for Oblivion where you could join the Mythic Dawn after the end of the main story and fight a war against the empire. This mod managed the whole War thing with attacks and counter attacks quite good. It felt like there was something going on even if you werent there.

 

 

TES stories have a tendency to seem rushed because you are effectively getting half a dozen games worth of stories in a single title.

Half a dozen rushed half cooked stories in a single title.

 

 

More importantly, the way the worlds are designed allows you to create your own story.

This is another point that adresses Children as targeted audience. The Dialoge Options are basicly very limited and it basicly doesn't matter at all what and how you say things. The rest to this design of "your own story" is picking weapons, cloathing and stats after spending half an Hour designing the Characters face, who you are playing in 3rd Person while wearing a helmet. This point plays so well into the childish attitude of self worship, just as the pictureing of Jesus as a blonde white guy.

 

 

 

until you explore the deeper subplots that aren't just handed to you on a platter.

If i get served at first with a dozen half cooked stories that feel rushed i'am curtainly in no mood to dig any deeper into one of them. Especialy if i get confronted with curtain bummers.

 

 

Game of Thrones is popular because, frankly, it's simple, it's relatable.

I can't judge that just as i can't judge on Dragon Age or Divinity, because i don't know these stories.

 

 

 

because of the way the universe is built around alien and obscure concepts which twist standard tropes into new things.

No its not. Its the same old Choosen one who fights apocalyptiic evil story over and over again. Was Redguard or Daggerfall this way? No. So why is it since Morrowind necessary to have these apocalyptic battles with basicly evil Gods from the twillight zone? For me it seams they have a lack of trust in their Game World and don't think it would stand without the existencialistic threat.

 

 

 

All I see in your complaints is a fixation on the main quest line, and then an unwillingness to either read it no the deeper world design that makes it interesting or to look beyond it at the sheer quantity of other things. Unless you're willing to step outside your box, your going to be stuck in bog-standard and predictable stories like the Witcher and Game of Thrones, where the most interesting stories are the ones they refuse to tell because it requires exploration of deeper world-building mechanics.

At this point the Defence of Skyrim goes in the direction of Hippies who wanna convice me that i should give into their religion or philosophy, and when i point out how dumb it seams to me they tell me about that i need to step outside my box. I realy don't care enough about so many things i see in Skyrim to invest my time into in-game research, just for the aha-moment. I know already that there isn't much to be found anyway.

 

 

Frankly, politics are boring. Once you understand them, the players may change, but the story is always the same.

Hero slays dragon.

 

For the politics in game of throns i can't speak because i don't know them, but for the rest the posibilities are endless. Good example is a scene from the Witcher 3 gameplay videos, where this vilage headman of this village in the swamps cuts off one of his ears and gives it as tribute to the swamp witches. And then he says something that people need to get along in this part of the woods somehow. Just this one scene showed meaning. Politics in Skyrim basicly are just odd from the village level up to the Civil War. The Jarls ask you to do basic tasks for them and the leading of an angry mob with torches to a vampires den was a nice variation. For the rest, they just didn't feel real. Hell, the first thing i would want the stranger to do is to collect taxes and rents. But noooo, we gona have to assassinate the emperor himself, because that would mean so much. Oh, the Guards even gona adress greating me on that, the Guards who are in every town now Imperial Soliders because i won the Civil War for the Empire.

See how stupid this whole thing is?

 

 

[Lachdonin]

See how stupid this whole thing is?

 

No, I don't, because I seem to see things from the other side. Minimalism allows you to fill in your own stories and develop your own perspective and place.

 

Most of the quests are vague and require you to dog to get at the underlying themes. You call this half cooked (I prefer my meat, at least, medium rare, so half cooked or outright raw is good for me)and I call it a lead in. I was all gung-ho to free the Foresworn and punish the Silverbloods, until afterwards I did some reading on the Reachmen and learned how sadistic and cruel they are. If you don't want to get into Tue subtext, well, no one fan make you, but that doesn't mean the game is designed for children.

 

 

In fact, I tend to view Witcher in particular to be made for pubescent boys who abhor any sort of complexity. My play through gave me the distinct feeling of being led along, given pointless decisions and having every answer thrown at my feet. There wasn't any subtext, no sense of mystery or discovery. It was just running from plot point to plot point, following a script with the occasional teenaged wet dream sex scene and empty decisions.

 

If you want to be spoon fed every answer, well... TES is not for you.

 

The Witcher, Dragon Age, Divinity and their ilk are part of a modern generation of RPG with simplistic plots that follow a rather predictable arc, that seem born out of a major influx of action and FPS players into the RPG genre. Their characters and story are often two dimensional, but easily relatable and mundane, because many of these players lack experience or context in more complicated world building.

 

We saw this same problem with the shift from 3rd to 4th edition of D&D. To try and address new gamers and streamline the gameplay, as newer gamers were used to more directed storytelling and less strange concepts, Gods were simplified and made confrontable enemies, spatially obscure constructs like the Planes were condensed into relatable planets, spell preperation, materials and esoterics totally removed in favour of a power system. It did attract a wide range of actions younger players, but alienated many veterans. It became a story driven adventure game, rather than a open RPG system.

 

TES has made some of the same moves, though at its core it remains a open world RPG in which the PLAYER makes their own stories. It suffers somewhat from technical limitations, but that's a concession that has to be made with any game.

 

And for the record.. yes, Daggerfall and Redguard were Chosen One stories.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Lachdonin

[thomriis]

 

 

The Nexus would probably benefit from something like a curated "gold" section containing only mods that are high quality and actually improve the game in some way.

This is an interessting Idea, but it would require care and maintenance, especialy when you wanna make it about the possibility loosing their gold status. But the idea is interessting. There is way to much "palace guard armor made playable" kind of mods.

 

 

 

Its funny lol, Youre posting your opinion here in the Skyrim section of the Nexus, And then youre getting angry cause people has a different opinion, WHAT DID YOU EXPECT?

 

Post in the witcher section instead and im sure more would agree with you.

Okay then let me clarifie the point once more.

This isn't about Skyrim vs the Witcher 2. The Witcher 2 just serves as example of another kind of fantasy story telling. And so for i'am not interessted in any meaningless "well maybee you should go witcher 2 games forums then phephephe" Statements, because it just shows that you don't get the point at all.

 

No its you that dont get anything at all im afraid,You started this topic about how you thought the witcher was a better game than Skyrim,And then youre going all out in a fuss when people dont agree with you! If you think that the witcher is a better game its fine by me, Some like Dragon age some prefer the witcher and some thinks that the tes series are better. Go play what you want!!! But at least respect peoples different opinions about it.

 

ive only stated that i thought the tes series to be better than the witcher, Sorry if youve felt offended by that,But its really just my thoughts and nothing else.

 

I must admit that the Witchers graphics are gorgeous indeed,But i dont find the gameplay entertaining,Most modern approaches to the rpg genre tells you what to do/What to be and what to do next, Ill agree that the tes series also has a main story for you to follow BUT YOU DONT HAVE TOO!

 

What inspires me in the tes games is that you can break em up in many different playthrougs that fits your charachter,While in the witcher theres really no point in completing it more than once.

 

Yes we are probably all old geezers stuck in the past ( Has anyone seen my 20 sided dice), But what i see in many young gamers is impatience and a big uuuurgh everytime theyll need to check their inventory,Tried to teach my nephew to play Skyrim and as soon he came out from Helgen he asked me what to do next Me: its up to you,Do what you like, Nephew : But where do i go?, Me: Explore the world and find something to do , Nephew : But where do i find that?. So he ended up slaughtering half of Riverwood got frustrated and has never played it since (And hes 15 years old) :laugh:

Lachdonin

 

As far as 'earthly intentions' vs 'prophecy and twilight zone monsters'... Well, yeah, sure. A lot of people on the Bethesda Forums would probably agree with you there. However, doing so requires you to decode that Tamriel is like our world, rather than following dramatically different rules. Gravity doesn't even exist in Tamriel as we understand it...

It doesn't matter how things would work out in Tamriel. Another Friend of mine started to watch Game of Thrones a while ago, and normaly he hates the Fantasy Genre. He started to realy like it, says because the Story would still suck him in without the Dragons and Zombies and that stuff, because without these this story also could be told. In Witcher 2 you have also this Twillight kind of Realities were Monsters come out of to cause havoc, but the whole life of the average Men in this fantasy world evolve around that. They have other things on their mind then the Witcher or even the War of their Kingdoms. There is this one line this friend of me told me from the Thrones series, that the common folk just prays for Harvest and Rain and doesn't mind the shemes and games the nobility is playing.

Remove the Dragons from Skyrim and what is left? Everything evolves around the dragons and the rest seams to be half cooked.

And before other halfwits now go on telling me about "hey maybee you should then do Game of Thrones stuff", i would ask them to scram, because i want this to be about the more fundamental of story telling and character building. And i never read or watched any of the GoT stuff.

 

 

 

N0mad

Just a couple of things I'd like to comment on here. I believe the statement that the average age of Skyrim players is between 12 and 18 years is totally off. I'd put money down on there being more 40+ year old players than teens. Why? Because it attracts those "olde folks" who played D&D before PCs were available at a store near you. Those D&D players who made the bridge actually used their floppy disc PCs to streamline the bulkiness of the rpg by bringing the multitude of charts and even 20 sided die rolls into their computers.

And i think it was a great thing that proud nerds made all the development from Dungeons and Dragons Dices to 1080p Skyrim, but you don't get the point i was making. The biggest consumers of videogames are still children. If it wouldn't, Skyrim wouldn't be the way it is.

 

[KaiHatia]

 

In fact, I tend to view Witcher in particular to be made for pubescent boys who abhor any sort of complexity. My play through gave me the distinct feeling of being led along, given pointless decisions and having every answer thrown at my feet. There wasn't any subtext, no sense of mystery or discovery. It was just running from plot point to plot point, following a script with the occasional teenaged wet dream sex scene and empty decisions.

I just can speak for the secound game. Ofcourse you have to make decisions which path to follow and which allies to choose. And they have a bit more effect then just replaceing the City Guards. Can't be called empty at all. Also, because W2 sometimes lacks a Quest Marker or doesn't include one, while Skyrim seam to lead you by the hand most of the time, running from plot point to plot point. Also, with just a quick look at the Nexus Mods i wouldn't play that teenage wet dream sex scene card here. No doubt there is way more kinky stuff for Skyrim then Sex Scenes shown in this game. How many Hentai Outfits are there already for Skyrim?

 

 

 

If you want to be spoon fed every answer, well... TES is not for you.

One of the points i made one page earlier is the lack of story complexity, and now you come up with this spoon fed thing?

 

 

The Witcher, Dragon Age, Divinity and their ilk are part of a modern generation of RPG with simplistic plots that follow a rather predictable arc, that seem born out of a major influx of action and FPS players into the RPG genre. Their characters and story are often two dimensional, but easily relatable and mundane, because many of these players lack experience or context in more complicated world building.

So these new generation RPGs are for Call of Duty Kiddies who lack imagination to dream themselfs into the Video Game fantasy world. Didn't see a first person mode in any of these but Skyrim. Also, i wouldn't call a lack of interest in a fictional fantasy world that i someone needed to work to explore in full detail a lack of experience in complicated world building. Especialy compared to TES, these things don't mean much. Just take the visuals for example. Morrowind the Empire is this somehow roman like force, in Oblivion it looks like southern european medieval design, and in Skyrim you are back to the first one. There is no development. At Oblivion you could have thought they let there be some sort of development within this civilisation, but nope. Also, for the lack of dialoge options i wouldn't look for the two dimensional characters way off of skyrims dragonborn.

 

 

 

And for the record.. yes, Daggerfall and Redguard were Chosen One stories.

I was talking rather about the existentical threat. These weren't given in these games( yeah i know Wormking wants to be god(so much for the simplistic characters)) and even the chosen one Story is a bit wide ranged here.

 

 

@thomriis

Am i supposed to pick your sentences out that mess? Your posts to that topic were already a waste of time to read and so for i would ask you to move on and leave this topic. I would set you on ignore otherwise.

[thomriis]

 

 

In fact, I tend to view Witcher in particular to be made for pubescent boys who abhor any sort of complexity. My play through gave me the distinct feeling of being led along, given pointless decisions and having every answer thrown at my feet. There wasn't any subtext, no sense of mystery or discovery. It was just running from plot point to plot point, following a script with the occasional teenaged wet dream sex scene and empty decisions.

I just can speak for the secound game. Ofcourse you have to make decisions which path to follow and which allies to choose. And they have a bit more effect then just replaceing the City Guards. Can't be called empty at all. Also, because W2 sometimes lacks a Quest Marker or doesn't include one, while Skyrim seam to lead you by the hand most of the time, running from plot point to plot point. Also, with just a quick look at the Nexus Mods i wouldn't play that teenage wet dream sex scene card here. No doubt there is way more kinky stuff for Skyrim then Sex Scenes shown in this game. How many Hentai Outfits are there already for Skyrim?

 

 

 

If you want to be spoon fed every answer, well... TES is not for you.

One of the points i made one page earlier is the lack of story complexity, and now you come up with this spoon fed thing?

 

 

The Witcher, Dragon Age, Divinity and their ilk are part of a modern generation of RPG with simplistic plots that follow a rather predictable arc, that seem born out of a major influx of action and FPS players into the RPG genre. Their characters and story are often two dimensional, but easily relatable and mundane, because many of these players lack experience or context in more complicated world building.

So these new generation RPGs are for Call of Duty Kiddies who lack imagination to dream themselfs into the Video Game fantasy world. Didn't see a first person mode in any of these but Skyrim. Also, i wouldn't call a lack of interest in a fictional fantasy world that i someone needed to work to explore in full detail a lack of experience in complicated world building. Especialy compared to TES, these things don't mean much. Just take the visuals for example. Morrowind the Empire is this somehow roman like force, in Oblivion it looks like southern european medieval design, and in Skyrim you are back to the first one. There is no development. At Oblivion you could have thought they let there be some sort of development within this civilisation, but nope. Also, for the lack of dialoge options i wouldn't look for the two dimensional characters way off of skyrims dragonborn.

 

 

 

And for the record.. yes, Daggerfall and Redguard were Chosen One stories.

I was talking rather about the existentical threat. These weren't given in these games( yeah i know Wormking wants to be god(so much for the simplistic characters)) and even the chosen one Story is a bit wide ranged here.

 

 

@thomriis

Am i supposed to pick your sentences out that mess? Your posts to that topic were already a waste of time to read and so for i would ask you to move on and leave this topic. I would set you on ignore otherwise.

 

Be my guest. Ill keep posting what i want.

 

maybe you should just bump off if you dont like it.

[Shubal]

My Skyrim is about getting new panties to all my girls in my chain of fun houses...... fighting Dragons along the way if I have to. There are plots and stories as well?

[gandalftw]

My Skyrim is about getting new panties to all my girls in my chain of fun houses...... fighting Dragons along the way if I have to. There are plots and stories as well?

I know those bloody dragons are always getting in the way of my fashion shoots too,annoying.

 

BTW being banned four times probably bums him out too.:http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2694774-kaihatia-banned/

Edited March 21, 2015 by gandalftw