RAM and GPU Upgrade

[theContador]

I have a question about uprading my desktop. I want to add more RAM. I currently have 2GB DDR2 at 667mhz.

I have space for 2 more sticks.

 

Would it be better to get 2 sticks of RAM as I have heard DDR2 works a lot better in pairs, but my moneys are limited.

And also, should they be the same speed i.e 667mhz (the RAM I have at the moment) or would it be possible to get maybe 800mhz instead?

 

Finally, I can run Fallout 3 decently well but get framerate issues so ive been thinking about getting a new GPU. I have an nVidia 8600GT with 1GB memory. I don't know if my motherboard can have higher profile cards and my PSU is only 450w so im not really sure if I should upgrade or not.

 

I would appreciate your advice!

 

Jammy

x

[Qwaxalot]

First question: Faster ram (800 mhz) will do no good (unless the motherboard will support it), in which case you will have to replace all 4 sticks with 800 mhz. In other words, you're probably limited to 667mhz.

 

Second question: there are a number of GPU upgrades that will provide substantial performance increases over the 8600GT. Look at the ATI/AMD offerings (5670 & 5770). I believe you'll find several cards that will work just fine with a 450 watt power supply, outperform the 8600, and not break the bank. (you can also look at the nVidea GTX460)

[theContador]

First question: Faster ram (800 mhz) will do no good (unless the motherboard will support it), in which case you will have to replace all 4 sticks with 800 mhz. In other words, you're probably limited to 667mhz.

 

Second question: there are a number of GPU upgrades that will provide substantial performance increases over the 8600GT. Look at the ATI/AMD offerings (5670 & 5770). I believe you'll find several cards that will work just fine with a 450 watt power supply, outperform the 8600, and not break the bank. (you can also look at the nVidea GTX460)

 

Thanks for your correspondence. The motherboard supports 800mhz but the 2 sticks that were built in are 667mhz. So would it just run at 667mhz even if I upgraded to 800mhz? And that would be great to have a better graphics card but im not sure the motherboard can have dual slots as it is pretty old. Its a Gigabyte P31-DS3L.

[_frost_]

In general it's possible, but you have to set the bios-RAM-settings to the slowest - in your case (both pairs) to 667.

You can try to set them to 800 but that means overclocking (with the possibility of instability or worse. I wouldn't recommend.

I also recommend a psu 550w+x if you plan to buy a new gpu (600w or 700w would be optimal).

As Qwaxalot said - ati 5770 is ok and nvidea 460gtx too, but again; buy a better psu if you use these cards.

 

 

_frost_

[prandiningrat]

DDR2 works better when in pairs because your chipset motherboard will activated the "Dual Channel" which will increase a twice Memory Bus Bandwith. When you use DDR2 667 MHz and DDR2 800 MHz the total speed of your memory will use a slower speed(667 MHz).

To get 800 MHz when you using a pairs of 667 is possible when do overclocking but i think this is too high(based on your MB), as posted above this is not recommended. mightbe best you do overclock your 'memory timings' of your memory to increase memory read/write by doing this you need increase voltage that used by memory and should upgrade your PSU too.

For GPU, i agree with two posted above but you should check your processor spec too that can bring the speed of your new GPU and dont get your PC 'bottleneck'..

[theContador]

Hmm thanks guys after a bit of messing around I think I will add the extra ram at 667mhz but not get a new GPU as I think im more bottlenecked by the motherboard. It has no PCI 2.0 slot its only PCI 1.0x16 I think. I need to get something slightly more future proof when I get a new computer!

I'd like to build my own out of interest but by the looks of it its about the same price just to customize one pre made for you from a retailer...

[Illiad86]

PCI-E x16 2.0 cards work in 1.0 slots...well at least in my case. I have a 5770 in an older Nforce 550 chipset motherboard with PCI-E x16 1.0. But I have heard they are all backwards compatible :) Your PSU is sufficient for many cards...they just put the "recommended power supply" way too high IMO. Here is a power consumption list, I couldn't believe my 5770 only uses 112W max lol...my old 7950GT used almost 200W max:

 

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_6870_PCS_Plus/25.html

 

As for your RAM...DDR2 800 is pretty expensive now. They are on DDR3 now so all the DDR2 is expensive because they aren't making it anymore. But here's a 2x1GB kit of 667 for pretty cheap

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145098&cm_re=ddr2_667-_-20-145-098-_-Product

 

or here's a 4GB kit

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231120&cm_re=ddr2_667-_-20-231-120-_-Product

 

Do you know what motherboard you have? There's a good chance that the max supported is DDR2 800 :) My boyfriend got this kit: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122&cm_re=ddr2_800-_-20-231-122-_-Product when he got more RAM for his system...was $54 at the time...*sigh* 2x1GB used to be $35.. I have 4x1GB at 891 MHz in mine. If my motherboard could support me overclocking the CPU up one more notch, it would be at 915 MHz ;)

 

Don't really need to upgrade but a new nice AM3 motherboard, a quad core, and 4GB of DDR3 1600 sounds like a nice Xmas pressie from the boyfriend no? ;)

Edited December 1, 2010 by Illiad86

[theContador]

PCI-E x16 2.0 cards work in 1.0 slots...well at least in my case. I have a 5770 in an older Nforce 550 chipset motherboard with PCI-E x16 1.0. But I have heard they are all backwards compatible :) Your PSU is sufficient for many cards...they just put the "recommended power supply" way too high IMO. Here is a power consumption list, I couldn't believe my 5770 only uses 112W max lol...my old 7950GT used almost 200W max:

 

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_6870_PCS_Plus/25.html

 

As for your RAM...DDR2 800 is pretty expensive now. They are on DDR3 now so all the DDR2 is expensive because they aren't making it anymore. But here's a 2x1GB kit of 667 for pretty cheap

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145098&cm_re=ddr2_667-_-20-145-098-_-Product

 

or here's a 4GB kit

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231120&cm_re=ddr2_667-_-20-231-120-_-Product

 

Do you know what motherboard you have? There's a good chance that the max supported is DDR2 800 :) My boyfriend got this kit: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122&cm_re=ddr2_800-_-20-231-122-_-Product when he got more RAM for his system...was $54 at the time...*sigh* 2x1GB used to be $35.. I have 4x1GB at 891 MHz in mine. If my motherboard could support me overclocking the CPU up one more notch, it would be at 915 MHz ;)

 

Don't really need to upgrade but a new nice AM3 motherboard, a quad core, and 4GB of DDR3 1600 sounds like a nice Xmas pressie from the boyfriend no? ;)

 

Thanks I got some RAM off amazon today the motherboard only supports 4gb and I have 2gb in it already. I am looking into a ATI Radeon 5670 or 5770 as they seem within my PSU limit, price range and requirements. Would a PCI 1.0 bottleneck the speed of the new Radeon? I know PCI 2.0 just carry faster speeds but have these speeds exceeded the card I am looking at as this is only a temporary upgrade, trying to stretch the longetivity of this build. Thanks

 

J

[Illiad86]

If you are choosing between the two, get the 5770...it's faster :P Haha, I did the same thing. I wanted to keep this computer going, didn't have the cash to do a full upgrade, so I just got this graphics card and overclocked the CPU :P

 

PCIe 2.0 motherboard slots are fully backward compatible with PCIe v1.x cards. PCIe 2.0 cards are also generally backward compatible with PCIe 1.x motherboards, using the available bandwidth of PCI Express 1.1. Overall, graphic cards or motherboards designed for v 2.0 will be able to work with the other being v 1.1 or v 1.0.

 

I haven't tried the card in a 2.0 slot. PCI-E 1.0 transfers data at 250MB/s while 2.0 transfers it at 500MB/s, so you do lose a little bit. I wouldn't call it a bottleneck though. I play Oblivion at 1920x1200 4xAA, 8xAF, 100+ mods, high resolution texture pack (QTPIII), and all the default settings maxed (except for the ugly grass). I'd say it averages 40-50FPS outdoors (with it's occasional hiccups, but that's Oblivion for ya) and anywhere from 60-150FPS indoors. Fallout 3 has similar requirements...I haven't played it since I got this card, not even installed...but it will probably run fine :)

 

What processor you have and what speed is it at? CPU is just as important as the GPU with Oblivion and FO3 it seems.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Illiad86

[theContador]

Oh ok I might look into it then if im not gonna lose much I guess I could always crossfire it in a future build when I get a PCI 2.0!

I have a Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 (2.53ghz). I found framerate was the biggest issue with fallout, loading times were ok and textures were kinda ok just multiple enemies and lots of npc's on screen made a big slowdown.

I can run Oblivion quite well, nearly max settings although I don't have Q3 textures but it is modded a lot. Guess it helps im only displaying on 144x900 but i'm getting a 1080p monitor so I guess a GPU upgrade is needed anyway.

Thanks

 

J