Killing Caesar in his camp

[WizardOfAtlantis]

A lot of that was to do with their religion (we'd say superstition)

 

I wouldn't say superstition. :biggrin:

[Sinophile]

According to my political science teacher, Dictatorships have longer lifespans than democracies. Case in point, the Roman and Ottoman Empires lasted over a thousand years. On the other hand, The longest last democratic state was Athens, which only lasted 400 years. Also, wasn't Caesar marked as essential(meaning that you can only knock him out, not kill him?). There are several instances where I kill an NPC for one quest, then they automatically respawn for another quest.

[ita]

Also, wasn't Caesar marked as essential

 

He isn't, once you get to the Legion fort you can kill him.

[frank lee]

A lot of that was to do with their religion (we'd say superstition)

 

I wouldn't say superstition. :biggrin:

 

the ideas they had don't translate well, they were pre-monotheistic. Christianity, Islam etc were a deep shift in thinking about this stuff.

 

According to my political science teacher, Dictatorships have longer lifespans than democracies. Case in point, the Roman and Ottoman Empires lasted over a thousand years. On the other hand, The longest last democratic state was Athens, which only lasted 400 years. Also, wasn't Caesar marked as essential(meaning that you can only knock him out, not kill him?). There are several instances where I kill an NPC for one quest, then they automatically respawn for another quest.

 

Ask your teacher which Roman empire he means, the Republic, the dictatorship or the 'Holy Roman empire' :ermm:

a lot of people who study the period make a distinction between them. In fact most scholars divide the 'real' dictatorship of the Caesars into the Julio-Claudian era and the rest!

The point being, these empires only look like smooth homogeneous entities from 2000 years away.

 

And the Caesar in the game wasn't going to be waking up when I was done with him...

[WizardOfAtlantis]

the ideas they had don't translate well, they were pre-monotheistic. Christianity, Islam etc were a deep shift in thinking about this stuff.

 

Why do you think they don't translate well?

 

Actually, they were pagan, not pre-monotheistic, as monotheism began in the western world in ancient Egypt thus sowing the seeds for Christianity well over a thousand years later. Continuing on that line, then, Christianity et al. really aren't deep shifts in and of themselves because they were continuing the religious trends set in the worship of the sun god in ancient Egypt 5,000 years ago. A very clear example of this is the ritualistic use of Amen at the end of prayers, which is identical to Amun, Amon, as well as the fact that the ten commandments are preceded by chapter 125 of the Book of the Dead (and thousands of years).

 

My point was that it is a little arrogant to call their religion (the Romans') a superstition simply because it comes chronologically before what people living in this age like to term "religion", which is just a fallacy based on looking at time in a linear, Darwinian sense in that whatever comes later is better, thus resulting in the denial of that category (and its "prestige") to other equally valid things, in this case, faiths. :)

[frank lee]

I was once in that part world when I witnessed the God Mercury going about the business of the Gods! It was spooky and thought provoking. However I am not only aware of stuff like 'katabatic wind phenomena' but I have my own set of superstitions with which I could interpret what I saw (UFO's, Black helicopters, etc) so I'm not condemning the Romans for this, they did the best with what they had.

 

We have a scientific and deterministic view of the world which the they didn't. They took much of their animist view from the Etruscans and built the stuff like the Sibylline prophecies into their government and public business (President Reagan's astrologer anyone?)

 

Rocks, mountains, trees and 'interesting' locations could be the domain of Numia (spirits, demigods etc) such as the boulder in the temple of Jupiter which was a God called Terminus because no-one succeeded in moving it during construction. :whistling:

 

The rich and well educated Romans were supposed to be less susceptible to superstition but Pliny wrote about 'important' people who wore charms to ward of blindness. Even Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa (Caesars heir) wore a tiny model of Hecate and upon it's loss he believed himself doomed, He shortly died!

 

Their world was full of manifestations and portents and they had no better explanations, so yea, superstition I'm afraid.

 

So; di vos incolumes custodiant (and shall we try to get this thread back to the vile upstart on Fortification Hill :blush: )

[lll10000]

If you want him back alive, open the console, click on his body or body parts, and type " resurrect " without the quotes and it will revive him. If you need to get your reputation back up, download the Portable Cheat Terminal from the F:NV Nexus.

[WizardOfAtlantis]

Their world was full of manifestations and portents and they had no better explanations, so yea, superstition I'm afraid.

 

But by that logic, all religion is superstition, from a scientific point of view of course (as long as we *hold back* quantum mechanics).

 

So; di vos incolumes custodiant (and shall we try to get this thread back to the vile upstart on Fortification Hill :blush: )

 

And yours as well! :thumbsup:

 

 

 

 

If you want him back alive, open the console, click on his body or body parts, and type " resurrect " without the quotes and it will revive him. If you need to get your reputation back up, download the Portable Cheat Terminal from the F:NV Nexus.

No, I don't want him back alive, but thanks. Hmm, the reputation thing is interesting...thanks for the tip. Can't see it useful now, but in the future...who knows?

 

 

Yes, the game seems to keep moving on without Caesar. Lots of comments about his fall as I'm walking around, so that's nice. The dynamics of interpersonal relationships are much more well-defined in New Vegas than in FO3, I think.

[ngin890]

If you kill caesar with boone around then he will tell you how the NCR got intel that a whole line of successors are lined up for when he dies and that the legate takes charge when caesar dies meaning the power shift is in fact rather small, also you get some history points with Boone if you need some. So caesar's death has little effect for the present but if you side with the legion and caesar dies then many of the endings show the legate's foolishness that will soon lead to the legions destruction. So the fact that a chicken will live after its head is severed is a wonderful analogy.