Some of my issues with Fallout NV

[marharth]

"Followers take over New Vegas. They should of been a much larger faction, the story line tries to tell us Caesar came from them?"

"Go play Fallout 1. They've had possession of the LA Public library for over a century... Their roots are in the NCR's home turf."

 

I would have preferred if the game made them bigger though, they should of expanded more.

 

"Now, the NCR isn't necessarily all good and the Legion isn't necessarily all evil. If you talk to Caesar about his plans, you'll realize that he isn't looking to destroy everything, but rather to reform a lot of things. Also, the Legion doesn't allow drugs, alcohol, or chems into its land, and that's a good thing.

 

Also, the Followers aren't a New Vegas based institution, so it might make sense only to have a small branch in the New Vegas area. They are really based in California, particularly in Los Angeles, in an area once called the Boneyard."

 

I understand that the NRC isn't all good and the legion isn't all bad, but what I am saying is that the game makes the NCR look like god and makes the legion look evil.

 

Well the NCR isn't really a New Vegas based group either, they are called the New CALIFORNIA Republic after all. The storyline in the game made them expand a lot more, and I would have liked to see the followers expand also.

[minngarm]

"Followers take over New Vegas. They should of been a much larger faction, the story line tries to tell us Caesar came from them?"

"Go play Fallout 1. They've had possession of the LA Public library for over a century... Their roots are in the NCR's home turf."

 

I would have preferred if the game made them bigger though, they should of expanded more.

 

"Now, the NCR isn't necessarily all good and the Legion isn't necessarily all evil. If you talk to Caesar about his plans, you'll realize that he isn't looking to destroy everything, but rather to reform a lot of things. Also, the Legion doesn't allow drugs, alcohol, or chems into its land, and that's a good thing.

 

Also, the Followers aren't a New Vegas based institution, so it might make sense only to have a small branch in the New Vegas area. They are really based in California, particularly in Los Angeles, in an area once called the Boneyard."

 

I understand that the NRC isn't all good and the legion isn't all bad, but what I am saying is that the game makes the NCR look like god and makes the legion look evil.

 

Well the NCR isn't really a New Vegas based group either, they are called the New CALIFORNIA Republic after all. The storyline in the game made them expand a lot more, and I would have liked to see the followers expand also.

 

The followers are expanding, their means is by stealth and cunning, not by arms or territorial markings. Being a educated group they have seen that trying to outright control a area limits their effects and creates more risk overall. By being a 'secret" society they can inact their will acrossed the west and beyond without worrying about invasion, territorial rights, or trade agreements.

[marharth]

"Followers take over New Vegas. They should of been a much larger faction, the story line tries to tell us Caesar came from them?"

"Go play Fallout 1. They've had possession of the LA Public library for over a century... Their roots are in the NCR's home turf."

 

I would have preferred if the game made them bigger though, they should of expanded more.

 

"Now, the NCR isn't necessarily all good and the Legion isn't necessarily all evil. If you talk to Caesar about his plans, you'll realize that he isn't looking to destroy everything, but rather to reform a lot of things. Also, the Legion doesn't allow drugs, alcohol, or chems into its land, and that's a good thing.

 

Also, the Followers aren't a New Vegas based institution, so it might make sense only to have a small branch in the New Vegas area. They are really based in California, particularly in Los Angeles, in an area once called the Boneyard."

 

I understand that the NRC isn't all good and the legion isn't all bad, but what I am saying is that the game makes the NCR look like god and makes the legion look evil.

 

Well the NCR isn't really a New Vegas based group either, they are called the New CALIFORNIA Republic after all. The storyline in the game made them expand a lot more, and I would have liked to see the followers expand also.

 

The followers are expanding, their means is by stealth and cunning, not by arms or territorial markings. Being a educated group they have seen that trying to outright control a area limits their effects and creates more risk overall. By being a 'secret" society they can inact their will acrossed the west and beyond without worrying about invasion, territorial rights, or trade agreements.

Still there should be more of them in the vegas arwa...

[mdingman]

My problem was you didn't see enough of the good side of the legion and enough of the bad side of the ncr. The legion is portrayed as murderers preying on the innocent and the ncr is largely portrayed as the defenders of the innocent.

 

in reallity, the legion is a society that would provide better safety and justice(just talk to the trader in the fort and caesar), but they are willing to resort to any means to gain control. The ncr, on the other hand, treats conquered enemies kinder, but they just eventually exploit everyone around them.

 

Also, their society isn't nearly as safe, and they are very corrupt. My reason for believing they are corrupt is someone talks about all of the land in california is given to a few brahmin barons who have connections, while all of the farmers are kicked out. I can't remember exactly who told me this though....

Also, you just need to lock at the value of the ncr's money vs. to the legion's money. NCR money is $4 to 1 cap, while Legion money is worth 1 Denarius to 4 caps. Obviously the Legion has a much better economy.

 

Any of this can be found on Fallout Wiki and it has even more reasons why the Legion is better. So i guess i have a problem with how the Legion is presented as murderers with how they killed the powder gangers in Nipton, while the NCR is portrayed as defenders of the innocent with them fighting the powder gangers in Primm.

In reality, the Legion is the better society, but they take extreme measures, and the NCR is a corrupt, exploiting group who is more merciful in conquest.

 

To paraphrase (not quote) Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" If you aren't prepared to do what is necessary in war, don't go to war. The Legion is prepared to do what is necessary, evidenced by Nipton and Searchlight. NCR is not, evidenced by the very existence of the Powder Gangers, the destroyed caravans, the situation at Forlorn Hope, the fact that a band of raiders right next to their main base of operations hasn't been taken care of, and most blatantly by the fact that they STILL don't control New Vegas. I hate to break it to you House-supporters, but there is no way, even in their upgraded state, that securitrons can stand against either the NCR or the Legion.

 

On my Legion playthrough I was vilified by NCR, so upon entering the Strip, the MP's attacked me. When i killed THEM, the Securitrons started attacking me. I killed all of them with one shot each from a .44 Magnum. They really aren't that great. Even with the Securitron army activated and upgraded, they have nowhere near the numerical or combative strength to hold The Strip for more than a few days, let alone conquer all of New Vegas, no matter how weakened the factions are. They simply don't have the man, or in this case, robot, power. I guess that's another problem i have, that 2 of the game's main endings support the possibility of a small robot force gaining control of all of new vegas, while logically it is impossible for them to retain control of the Strip against an assualt from any of the major factions, even some of the minor factions like the Fiends or the Brotherhood of Steel.

 

Sorry about the ramble, but i felt that really needed to be said after reading posts by countless Legion-bashers. One last thing, the Legion would destroy the Followers. Caesar was one of them, so he would know all of their methods. They also have nowhere near the soldiers, weapons, training, logistics, or fortifications to contend with the Legion on any level. Caesar would squash them like bugs.

Edited January 10, 2011 by mdingman

[ita]

The areas controlled by the Legion might be safe and all but I'm not fully convinced that a society that essentially keeps half its population as breeding stock is better than the NCR. Edited January 10, 2011 by GenocideLolita

[mdingman]

Like i said, look at FalloutWiki, only the women who are slaves are kept as breeding stock,which makes sense because you don't want them to be in a strong enough position to oppose the Legion in any capacity. the women born into the legion live normal lives. Some are actually tasked woth preserving the ideals and culture of the Legion. Your view, although, is understandable since all you see in Fallout:New Vegas is slave women and the military side of the Legion, while you see none of the civilian side.

[ita]

Nope, it doesn't specify that only slave women are kept as breeding stock.

 

Unlike most post-War societies, which treat women as equal to men, Caesar's Legion treats most of them as merely breeding stock, although some are assigned to other tasks.

 

The Legion's ideals might be perfect for running a conquering army but not for building a sustainable society.

[Quetzlsacatanango]

No one ever thinks they are the "bad guy". The game takes place in a more NCR area than a Legion area, so you would expect the people there to prefer NCR to Legion. Both Legion and NCR make it pretty clear that Legion women are not considered 'full citizens', regardless of their status beyond that. I also find it pretty amusing that people use the Legions' banning of chems as a sign that they are good. Prohibition was a failure in the 20s, it's a failure in the 2000s. You can't think slavery is bad and prohibition is good. A restriction of freedom is a restriction of freedom, it's only a difference in degree, not of kind. Edited January 10, 2011 by Quetzlsacatanango

[mdingman]

@GenocideLolita Did u also read about "Caesar's Priestesses"? They are some of the most important people in the Legion and they are women. "although some are assigned to other tasks" is also a key phrase there. Also, the legion needs to have women as "breeding stock" because they need to field a large army and in a post-apocalyptic wasteland there aren't too many people to go around. I agree that using women as breeding stock is wrong, but you can see why the Legion does that. Besides, there's no telling how the Legion will change when they decide to become a less military-oriented society. Women's roles will probably change. I'm not saying the Legion is perfect, i'm just saying it's the most perfect.

 

@Quetzlsacatanango They are obviously being portrayed as the bad guy. You walk into a burning town with people hanging on crosses and think "Bad guys did this" I thought this myself and it was only later that i realized that the Legion only did that because they were trying to scare the crap out of everyone to lower morale, which you would discover if you completed the "Cold, Cold, Heart" quest. You should also read Fallout Wiki so you at least know what you are talking about as far as the women go. I also never said that the banning of chems made the Legion good, but now that you brought it up, i will say that they do. Chems are VERY unrealistic as far as fallout goes. You never see physical effects of being addicted, and you never feel the psychological effects either. Your stats just change. If you think people should be free to use drugs, because that's what chems are, go on Google right now and image search "meth addicts" and "meth birth defects" You will not like what you see. If you still aren't convinced, Google "Meth Mouth" and "Meth Scars". I rest my case. Also, you are using prohibition in the wrong context. The prohibition of the 1920's was the banning of alcohol and yes, it didn't work. There is no Prohibition today, there are only illegal drugs. They are illegal because of the effects they have on people and all the problems they cause. How many people have died from the drug wars in Mexico so far? If you are actually serious about how people should be free to use drugs, i challenge you to go to a police station, hospital, or rehab center and debate that with the people there.

 

Finally, to both of you, i never said that the Legion was perfect, but i did say they were the best option. Their methods are too brutal, but you have to admit they work, i don't agree with how they treat women, but there's no telling how that may change seeing as how the Legion is a very new faction and will probably become a more civilian-centric faction in the future as they conquer more land, their lands are safe, and they treat people justly. If you are going to say that they aren't just since they enslave people, the Legion needs to keep the people that they conquer down until they fully become a part of the Legion, otherwise the conquered will spread dissent and non-Legion ideals until the well-being and entire identity of the Legion is jeapordized. Anyways, just ask around about the NCR to non-NCR people and they will tell you that when the NCR has jurisdiction over you, you become a slave in everything but name.

[Kendo 2]

I've played the ending three ways:

*House is dead, I control the robots and everyone else dies or is driven off. Yes Man announces he is going to upgrade himself. He wheels away and I immediately regret giving him access to the platinum chip. The game ends before I can shoot him in the back.

*I support the NCR and get a medal. They break their treaties and promises, the strip becomes corrupt, bandit and raider activity increases and everyone is pretty much miserable once the new taxes start (art imitates life).

*I support the Legion and they do what they said they would, they assimilate almost everyone into their 'Empire'. They stomp on all resistance. The roads are safe and trade prospers. What was once New Vegas becomes the seat of Legion power. It IS the new Rome.

 

As far as the game goes, it blows in so many ways and on so many levels (and we all know it) that I won't get into it.