Mature Discussion: "Offensive" Mods

[scruples]

The difference is that things already in the game can be considered "cannon" this excludes it from some criticism because the argument could be made

that this is the way it is in the Fallout universe.

 

As players we enter Fallout without any control of what kind of world we are going into.

We can also make moral decisions in the game. You dont have to f**k every hooker you come across for instance.

 

When you upload a module which claims to "fix" something or make it more "realistic" and all it does

is removes every black man in the game. You don't have to be Einstein to understand that something is wrong with that.

 

Also, If you upload something to an online repository you cant expect it to be above scrutiny and possible rejection.

[JimboUK]

Firstly, thank you to the admin, moderators and majority of posters. As FatherAzerun says, this topic has been mostly kept civil and on track and has made an interesting read.

 

Secondly to the supporters of the "Live and let live" thought train. I have just one more thought to add to the mix. IF a pedophilia mod was made, would you complain? Or would you run with "Live and let live"?

 

While I am in no way saying that they[Nazi mods, Army men mod] are of equivalent moral sickness as a pedophilia mod, they do however cause some people uncomfort when being posted in this rather public but privately owned forum.

 

As FatherAzerun has said they encourage people, supportive of those views, to share them with us and, with this being a private forum, the admins and modding community as well.

 

Would you want pedophiles saying about how their view of child "love" is right and saying how they should be allowed to express that in the game? I think[hope] that the majority of us would say no.

 

So why have a rule for one and a rule for another? No mod can be instantly judged, it takes time to look at every aspect of what it contains, delivers and aims to achieve, however there is no question that a mod designed to glorify those views should be held to account after rigorous debate of its pro's and con's.

 

I am by no means a moral saint but there are lines which are made with the idea of them not being crossed. In this forum, and these collected sites, the lines are drawn by the admins guided by the morals of our societies. Cross the lines? Don't expect to get treated as an exception.

 

A pedophilia mod would be in breach of UK law which treats computer generated images no differently to the real thing, even if it wasn't I'm sure that's something Dark0ne would want removed.

[bben46]

Here is the official word - From the terms of service of the Nexus sites that you are required to agree to when you signed up. :thumbsup:

 

• Any files that contain sexual images or reference of sexual acts with minors (people under the age of 18 or people who look under the age of 18) and animals, incite racial or religious hatred or are generally designed to spark a negative reaction in certain demographics beyond what is accepted within the UK/US media will be removed and accounts banned. To further clarify: what would be acceptable within the film and video game industry in the UK/US is generally acceptable on Nexus sites.
• If you see a file that breaches these rules it does not mean that file has been allowed to remain by the Nexus staff and that all files of similar content are OK. Nexus staff might not have seen the file so report the file if you are unsure.
• These rules are open to interpretation by moderators of the site and they can and will remove any content they deem to be inappropriate for Nexus sites. We retain the right to remove or edit details of any file at any time for any reason without warning.

The full text of the terms and conditions is available here: http://www.thenexusf...tion=boardrules

 

How I interpret this in relation to pedophilia: If you want to dress up your adult character or any adult NPC like a hooker, it's your game, go ahead. Trying to dress a child character or NPC as a hooker will get you booted. However, mods that portray children as children are not forbidden, but are watched more closely for violations of this policy.

 

Bben46, Moderator

[Ten Tigers]

The SS Uniforms and Army Men mod were pretty bad, but by FAR the worst thing on this site is that about 50% of ALL the mods are pornographic in nature / concern outfitting your female PC with strange clothing options.

 

SERIOUSLY PEOPLE? Grow the hell up, either go outside and talk to a girl, or if you insist to retain your freak asexuality, please keep your sexual deviance OUT of the mods section.

 

On the other hand, I try to keep an open mind, and I don't advocate censorship, but frankly, I expected more from the community than for mods like Type BB, Beware of Girl or Animated Prostitution to ever have existed int he first place. It's actually kind of funny because every person responsible for making a tits mod the most downloaded on the site is only furthering the stereotype that gamers are agoraphobic dorks.

 

Wow. You seem to know very little about human history OR human nature.

 

The fact that you put Nazi mods ABOVE nudity/sex mods is simply mind boggling. You couldn't possibly know the full extent of the attrocities of the Nazi party and why those mods would offend someone if you think simple human sexuality is a worse thing to represent electronically. Again, I'm not for the censoring of either mods, I just had to call you out on that.

 

And as far as you "expecting more of the modding community..." Pfft. Like I said, you know nothing of history or human nature. Mankind has been sexualizing art and entertainment since the stone age. Everything from art to fashion to media. Everything. Since the dawn of man. Go do a little art study on Greek and Roman art. Read some classic novels. Watch a movie or two. Its everywhere. And you "expected more?" Allow me to appologize on behalf of the community and humanity at large here for failing to meet your high expectations.

 

In my experience, extremeists like yourself usually recoil behind their moral holy symbols like that because they often hide something even more repulsive themselves. So no, you are not open minded. You are just another extremist. You don't get to make judgements on the larger portion of the community here, insulting them, and insulting the modders who take the time to put in more work than your two bit opinion ever will. No, not and say "I'm open minded" all in the same breath.

 

But alas you seem to be the exact person I was talking about in my original post. Its one thing to not like something. It is completely different to get on your high horse and start flag-waving and chest-beating. According to a LOT of people in the world, you are a sick, SICK, individual who has to play murder simulators to get your twisted jollies off. According to them, Its because of people like you that highschool shootings happen. You should be ashamed. Go outside. Grow up and stop playing childrens games so they can go back to being innocent.

 

Fortunately, people like them and you do not get their way and we have the freedom to play games like Fallout: New Vegas, and download whatever legal mods we so choose to as free-willed adults.

 

P.S. I don't even have a problem who find sex/nudity/nazi/whatever mods offensive and distasteful. To each their own. My beef is with individuals who think they are BETTER than other people because of their preferences, opinions, and beliefs.

[LtRhapthorn]

Personally, I have yet to see anything in my life that has truely offended me. Sure, when i read about the Nazi's in history, I think "Jesus, that's awful", but then I move on, and try to understand the reasons behind someones motivation.

 

In any case, what people do is what is people do. In the end, those with power have to make the descision, and I'm sure Dark0ne made the best descision that was avaliable to him.

[rossmcc]

Ok, here's my 5 cents,

 

I agree with a lot of what has been said, where when we signed up, we agreed to abide by certain rules. Another point I definitely agree on is that certain mods may be distasteful like the aforementioned mod that swaps male dancers or the Arcade mods, these are depressing yes, they do not incite hate, but still merit scrutiny. This may be questionable, meanwhile if it was a mod to kill minorities or otherwise, i.e races or whatever, I'd be inclined to report said mod on principle.

 

Nudity doesn't offend me, in most forms, there are exceptions, as not all nudity is palatable to me. Rape, paedophilia and sexual mutilation I find uncomfortable, and as it seems do the majority of other site users.

 

If you want to make a mod where Caucasians are only race, I pity you... as others already pointed out modding is voluntary, there is no pistol to your head forcing you to use them.

 

There are moral, legal implications, guidelines or restrictions on what can be done on these sites, laid down by the mods or the owner, thus trying to ensure at least harmony amongst the users. ( such as you, I, whomever )

 

I like being able to download mods and use them, as do all users of this collection of sites, so why endanger that by a stupid mod? To make a political point?? Wrong place.

[DarkZerker]

I believe that if you're mature enough to know that New Vegas is a game and is in no relation to real life(other than the occasional wise crack joke between friends), the I believe you are mature enough to handle any mod this big community cranks out.

 

After all, you bought New Vegas meaning you're ready to handle mature content. But I think the whole "male to female superiority" is stretching the limits just a tiny bit. I mean I'm not really affected but my ex-girlfriend hated that mod. But it's just one mod, just don't download it. The Nazi Uniform mod is also debatable. I mean it's just a uniform and it's not spreading Nazi ideals, which I simply don't care whether they do or not, but I know many people are offended by that and to them I say, just don't download it.

 

There's no point in getting all riled up over one mod. Just don't download it. I mean if you just ignore it, nothing happens. If you spam, flame, send death threats, etc...well you've just wasted your breath.

Edited December 21, 2010 by DarkZerker

[StapleNinja]

The SS Uniforms and Army Men mod were pretty bad, but by FAR the worst thing on this site is that about 50% of ALL the mods are pornographic in nature / concern outfitting your female PC with strange clothing options.

 

SERIOUSLY PEOPLE? Grow the hell up, either go outside and talk to a girl, or if you insist to retain your freak asexuality, please keep your sexual deviance OUT of the mods section.

 

On the other hand, I try to keep an open mind, and I don't advocate censorship, but frankly, I expected more from the community than for mods like Type BB, Beware of Girl or Animated Prostitution to ever have existed int he first place. It's actually kind of funny because every person responsible for making a tits mod the most downloaded on the site is only furthering the stereotype that gamers are agoraphobic dorks.

 

Wow. You seem to know very little about human history OR human nature.

 

The fact that you put Nazi mods ABOVE nudity/sex mods is simply mind boggling. You couldn't possibly know the full extent of the attrocities of the Nazi party and why those mods would offend someone if you think simple human sexuality is a worse thing to represent electronically. Again, I'm not for the censoring of either mods, I just had to call you out on that.

 

And as far as you "expecting more of the modding community..." Pfft. Like I said, you know nothing of history or human nature. Mankind has been sexualizing art and entertainment since the stone age. Everything from art to fashion to media. Everything. Since the dawn of man. Go do a little art study on Greek and Roman art. Read some classic novels. Watch a movie or two. Its everywhere. And you "expected more?" Allow me to appologize on behalf of the community and humanity at large here for failing to meet your high expectations.

 

In my experience, extremeists like yourself usually recoil behind their moral holy symbols like that because they often hide something even more repulsive themselves. So no, you are not open minded. You are just another extremist. You don't get to make judgements on the larger portion of the community here, insulting them, and insulting the modders who take the time to put in more work than your two bit opinion ever will. No, not and say "I'm open minded" all in the same breath.

 

But alas you seem to be the exact person I was talking about in my original post. Its one thing to not like something. It is completely different to get on your high horse and start flag-waving and chest-beating. According to a LOT of people in the world, you are a sick, SICK, individual who has to play murder simulators to get your twisted jollies off. According to them, Its because of people like you that highschool shootings happen. You should be ashamed. Go outside. Grow up and stop playing childrens games so they can go back to being innocent.

 

Fortunately, people like them and you do not get their way and we have the freedom to play games like Fallout: New Vegas, and download whatever legal mods we so choose to as free-willed adults.

 

P.S. I don't even have a problem who find sex/nudity/nazi/whatever mods offensive and distasteful. To each their own. My beef is with individuals who think they are BETTER than other people because of their preferences, opinions, and beliefs.

 

Like I said before man, I don't care about violence, sexuality etc. In fact, the darker, more subversive parts of human nature are probably the most interesting artistically. And I don't take some moral high ground or whatever the hell you said, I think a video game should be an open forum.

 

HOWEVER:

 

The way sexuality is portrayed on this site in particular is PATHETIC. Sex is a natural part of human nature, and no doubt a large part of it, but we as a community, and video games as a medium need to treat it with more maturity. Unless you're f--king Alexander DeLarge you can't POSSIBLY defend that something like this is a deep exploration of sexuality and love in the human condition.

 

No. It isn't. Its perverse mostly, and sensationalist a bit. And I'm sure an argument exists that it's "realism" but honestly, if that's the kind of realism a person is looking for, they should go out into the real world and throw their $50 into an actual prostitute, its somewhat more rewarding.

 

So I do agree with you, people can, will and should make whatever type of content they want. But we owe it to ourselves to be more mature about the way we handle sexuality. To completely pervade an entire world with naked whores and breasts the size of minivans doesn't serve to advance video games as an art form, it diminishes it. Sex and nudity shouldn't be something you see in every female in the ENTIRE game, it should be something unique and meaningful much like in the real world.

 

Mods like BB and Beware or Animated Prostitution aren't evil or wrong or whatever you think I came off as last time, but they are one thing, bad. They make the game less realistic, less fun, and less believable. If you disagree and that is in fact what floats your boat, I believe the new Leisure Boat Larry came out not long ago.

 

And finally allow me to suffix all of the above with the disclaimer that it is OPINION. Mine. You're entitled to yours, I get mine etc. etc. What pisses me off the most are people who label someone extremist based on a 1 paragraph forum post, then tell them their opinion is worth less than that of anyone else. Everyone's opinion matters, that's how this forum works, that's how the ratings system works, that's how democracy works. However the general consensus of opinions speaks volumes about our community, and so far, what I've gleaned at least, is that we have about 50% sex mods, and they're all artistically lower than even Caligula. It doesn't surprise me that mods appear for nothing other than sheer sex gratification, what surprises and disheartens me is that it can become the most popular file on a site of over 2 million members.

 

Sex is a good thing. Its essential to being human, however, when a gamer needs THIS MUCH from a game, they should, like I said before, go outside.

 

And oh right, Nazis, I think human tragedy is something worth exploring in video games, in fact, I think a Nazi mod could work, I see it as worse than a porn mod because we learn something from the Holocaust, all we learn from "Big tits nude jane companion v1.1.1.1.1.6" is that you have to make sure you're home alone.

 

FIN.

 

Damn I wrote a lot, lol :P

[WizardOfAtlantis]

Like I said before man, I don't care about violence, sexuality etc. In fact, the darker, more subversive parts of human nature are probably the most interesting artistically. And I don't take some moral high ground or whatever the hell you said, I think a video game should be an open forum.

 

HOWEVER:

 

The way sexuality is portrayed on this site in particular is PATHETIC. Sex is a natural part of human nature, and no doubt a large part of it, but we as a community, and video games as a medium need to treat it with more maturity. Unless you're f--king Alexander DeLarge you can't POSSIBLY defend that something like this is a deep exploration of sexuality and love in the human condition.

 

No. It isn't. Its perverse mostly, and sensationalist a bit.

 

See? Like it was already pointed out to you, now you're just being hypocritical. Or Two-Faced, take your pick. Again. :wallbash: Really, don't you get it? You can't say that you don't take the moral high-ground and then Pronounce on the goodness or badness of ideas that, obviously, don't appeal to you.

 

I have to start thinking that you don't really understand yourself very well, because you say that certain things don't matter to you but then, once again, you start defining this and that as PATHETIC (in all capitals) and that no one could POSSIBLY defend it.

 

Honestly, you really don't understand how you're being two-faced here? :turned:

 

You don't seem to understand that you define mature sexuality as the type, kind, and limits to sexuality that you prefer. To you, that is mature and nothing else is. So, oral sex (the first image I saw when I opened the AP page you linked to) is perverse and immature and indefensible? See, that's taking the moral high-ground once again.

 

Obviously, the Type 3 and Beware of Girl and BB mods are immature to you as well since you can't seem to not mention them. Sure, they're not Evil or Wrong...they're just "bad". Bad, you said. They're just bad?! I really don't think you realize the contradictions that keep coming out of your keyboard. :confused:

 

Personally, I think we need all of these mods here. The fact that there are some people that fight to keep them up when they could easily be erased is the only thing that guarantees our Freedom.

 

Otherwise, the true nazis and fascists will ride in on their horses and decide for us what is mature, what is good, and what is bad.

[Tyz51]

Not gonna lie, I was looking for a resource that includes public SS uniforms/National Socialist uniforms to incorporate with a mod I was making to re-create a WW2 feel in the wasteland. And to be honest, what if Atombombe's family, or maybe even himself is SS-Oriented? No-one is forcing you to download or even look at the mod. and the SS symbol is used in a million things, like the band Kiss... Or Slayer (Even though they are Nazi's...) It's used in skateboard company logo's. The Swastika was originally a symbol of peace. I was looking for his mod, and now I cannot find it, which upsets me, because I would've loved to contact him for permission to use his uniforms in my mod since I suck at texturing.

 

Edit: To be fair, that's not the Nazi version of the black sun.... That's the Pagan version... And his mod is currently down, so that means I'm going to have to contact the WW2 military uniforms, and Nazi Zombies mod creators for fallout 3... Who haven't been active in forever.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Tyz51