Jacars Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) "Tiber Septim made it less dangerous to other races" This one made me laugh :D But yeah, it is true. It seems to me that while designing their games, they usually aren't that precise about the lore. They've changed it all over the series (yes, even in Morrowind) to make the game more accessible or fun or whatever is their reason. Sometimes the changes are minimal, sometimes bigger. I think it's neither wrong or right. I mean, who would like to play a game taking place in Black Marsh, if you must use magic to travel around (assuming you don't play as Argonian)? Then again, who wants to play a Black Marsh that is like Blackwood of Cyrodiil(=lame)? And what if you play a character totally unskilled in magic? I think the Skryim/Morrowind style approach is quite fine, with those mountains/rocks blocking the passage in certain places. Only with Black Marsh having swamps (or whatever it has) on the place of mountains. @Zaldiir: Yeah, that too. Edited May 23, 2011 by Jacars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaldir Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 And another thing... TES V is 200 years after TES IV - TES VI could be 1000 years after TES V. :PSo much change in 100s of years. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhorizon09 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 The thing is, we hear rumors from other races, saying that the Black Marsh is so bad, but we don't really know for sure. :)Sure, it has "poisons, plagues, uninhabitable swampy areas, and more that would tear up a dandy little Breton", but as we learn from The Infernal City, it is habitable by other races as well, though some places might be inaccessible without the use of magic by other races. But hey, that's just a challenge - the other races will have to use magic to get past it. Some people might then say: "But then Argonians are too powerful compared to other races", but really, shouldn't the Argonians have a bonus in their home? Just like the Nords should have bonuses that makes them more suitable in Skyrim than other races. :) It's not just "rumors from other races" that Black Marsh is a harsh place. It is also the words of those who have traveled there and are not Argonians. I agree with you that because Black Marsh is the homeland of the Argonians and they should receive some kind of bonus there, but the "bonus" you're referring to would be sort of game breaking wouldn't it? It would be like being able to play a race in New Vegas that is completely immune to poison air infested Sierra Madre area whereas all other races/ethnicities are not. Just because the lore says that Black Marsh is inhospitable for other races doesn't mean Bethesda would closely follow that lore when making a game based in the province.They could easily make up some excuse such as "Tiber Septim made it less dangerous to other races" or something similar. Well that's why if you read my post from earlier, I said that Bethesda would have to overcome some obstacles in making the place habitable and explorable by other races. In other words, they would have to make changes to the Black Marsh. For example (and this is only and example), after centuries of diligent work, to improve trade to their land the Argonians managed to build enough drainages in the Black Marsh to rid the area of most of the uninhabitable bogs and swamps while preserving and expanding the less harsh swamps to keep the Black Marsh an Argonian ideal land. In doing this, most of the previous wildlife that fed on the skin of non-Argonians, and diseases and toxic around the Black Marsh have disappeared. This is not to say that the Black Marsh is no longer a dangerous place, but its environment is now more forgiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keanumoreira Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Okay, let me put it this way. If they don't have TES VI in Black Marsh, I will chew on a pair of socks. Why? Because I'm sick of them being completely shrouded in mystery like some African tribal society. They are hardly covered on. I want to see them in their full glory. The problem I see with Black Marsh is that it is an extremely harsh environment for any race other than Argonians. There are flies there that feed on the soft flesh of the other races; this is just one of the problems. Let's not forget about the dreaded swamp rot issue in Black Marsh either. Because of this and many other hazards to the other races, I don't know how Bethesda will incorporate other races as playable into the Black Marsh part of the land without breaking lore. What I see is that players will probably have to play as an Argonian or they will suffer massive penalties for being in the Black Marsh... I don't know if many people will want to technically be forced to play as an Argonian because people want varieties and freedom in games such as TES. There are cities in Black Marsh you know. If you read the Argonian books from Oblivion, you can find some farmland and idyliic living in here. Never underestimate Beth. They will have to get to Black Marsh sooner or later, and a challenge they have no problem with tackling. Just pointing out the obvious obstacles Bethesda will have to work around. I don't see how marsh infested bogs are an obstacle that ruins the lore. More of an oppertunity. Shivering Isles had bogs in the Fringe and in Dementia and the game still came out full of lore and was fantastic. BTW...I don't think flies are going to stop travelers in the ElderScrolls universe. If they can traverse deadly mountain ranges to get to Skyrim, then I doubt a swamp will stop them, including a hero who saves the day once again who isn't an Argonian. You're missing my point entirely. Yes I'm aware of some settlements in the Black Marsh, but lore is that other races either practically cannot survive in the Black Marsh or will have one hell of time living there trying to survive in most of the land's regions. Argonians are basically immune to the plague, diseases, poisons, and fleshflies in the Black Marsh. Hence the reason why Argonians make up the majority of the population in the Black Marsh and not the other races. The swamps and bogs of SI are way different from those found in the Black Marsh. Nothing was mentioned of plagues and deadly flesh eating flies and other such creatures thriving in the SI. If you don't consider Bethesda breaking lore by suddenly making other races immune to the diseases, plagues, and flesh eating flies in the Black Marsh without any reasons, then I don't know what else to say. I mean, I would sure love to play a TES game that focuses on the lore of the Black Marsh and the Argonians, but I would find it hard to fathom something as outrageous as a bosmer freely roaming the Black Marsh with little or no penalties as if he's in Cyrodiil or Valenwood. I'm sure Beth will come up with something. If not, then there are plenty of other places to choose from I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SansSword Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Skyrim, sure why not, it hasn't been focused on in the world yet But I just hope Bethesda uses my idea of Akavir invading Black Marsh for TES 6 =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keanumoreira Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 @MountainStorm2010 Ok, then why not transition the Nords making up most of the pop. in Skyrim, to the Argonians make up the most for Black Marsh? Then, add an excuse for people being able to cross the land through these diseases and such? You're going to tell me that Beth can make excuses to solve problems like Mountain climbing and such, but they can't with invested bogs? Maybe they have medicines now that can treat these diseases, or, quite simply, maybe there is one part of the land that is only swamp that no one goes to. Maybe people worked around it, and the stubborn rest just went through it to reach Black Marsh. There are many ways of overcoming such a simple problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keanumoreira Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 The thing is, we hear rumors from other races, saying that the Black Marsh is so bad, but we don't really know for sure. :)Sure, it has "poisons, plagues, uninhabitable swampy areas, and more that would tear up a dandy little Breton", but as we learn from The Infernal City, it is habitable by other races as well, though some places might be inaccessible without the use of magic by other races. But hey, that's just a challenge - the other races will have to use magic to get past it. Some people might then say: "But then Argonians are too powerful compared to other races", but really, shouldn't the Argonians have a bonus in their home? Just like the Nords should have bonuses that makes them more suitable in Skyrim than other races. :) Exactly, thank you Zaldiir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SansSword Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 For those advocating Summerset Isles, I think Beth will certainly do something there, be it frontline game or expansion But it doesn't have to be set in JUST the Isles; Yokuda is off to the northwest a bit, could include Summerset and Yokuda in one game to expand the geography Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ita Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 We won't be seeing Yokuda anytime soon, unless Bethesda retcons the lore again. Yokuda was destroyed and apparently sank into the sea, that's why the Redguards left and settled in Tamriel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntsman2310a Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 why bother making a thread about this if the people making the game have already chosen Skyrim? criticisms aside I'd want to see a chance for the Khaajit or Argonians to shine, hell akavir sounds fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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