Quick updates to the site, money money money edition

[phellen]

In response to post #24601489. #24601644, #24601719, #24601884, #24601969, #24602009, #24602079, #24602239, #24602539, #24602874, #24603004, #24603284, #24603614, #24603949, #24603959, #24604344, #24604554 are all replies on the same post.

PotatoHunter wrote:

homeiswonderland wrote: "We?" Please, speak for yourself...

PotatoHunter wrote: I've been going site to site, spreading the petition, fighting the good fight, and now I'm starting to feel betrayed and angry because I just found out about this. U'd feel the same too.

flamenx01 wrote: It's an opt-in (as in it's up to the modder) 1%-5% (of valves cut) donation to the nexus.

jl144740 wrote: Calm down they understand us, unlike Valve. Did Nexus tell you that there mods cost money(?) No so calm down

PotatoHunter wrote: Yeah I understand this, but they are the leaders of this community and they are speaking out against it. You can't speak out against something while having money trickle in your back pocket simultaneously, even if your upfront about it. Your on one side or another.

homeiswonderland wrote: What's going on sucks. You're saying you just found out about the service providers thing? Let's take a step back, do a little more research, and let hurt feelings subside. Even if nexus is being a bit hypocritical (and I'm not saying they are), attacking them is not the thing to do right now. Let's just focus on mods not getting stolen and supporting those anxious modders who are hiding their mods out of fear.

Finnien wrote: Do you have any idea how much a site like this costs to run? If Valve wants to pay a VERY small portion of its portion to Nexus, all it does is help keep free modding afloat. It's VERY clear that Nexus has every intention of not only keeping mods free, but of allowing modders here to actively work together against their mods being used in paid content.

Stow the righteous and misplaced anger, and actually read all the news posts. What you're proposing isn't just cutting off the nose to spite the face, it's cutting off your right leg to spite a toe on your left foot.

homeiswonderland wrote:

Dark0ne's explaining it/defending his stance here.

PotatoHunter wrote: Look, okay maybe I got overzealous in my original post. I'll openly admit it, I was wrong, but I also read all the news posts completely.

So taking a cut of paid mods to support free mods is a good idea? I dont think so. You can't have the best of both worlds. Corporate greed will win if theres not 100% opposition to this. I'm not saying that Nexus doesnt deserve money, they definently do for everything they've done. Modders also deserve money for their mods. But its money from a program hellbent on destroying the free modding community. And the almighty Valve gets 75 percent.

But this program is evil. There will not be a co-existance of paid content and free content. To think that is naive. There are rumours out there that the paid content is already being taken down. I hope thats true. I just feel that even accepting a small cut of the money is a little bit hypocritical in my eyes.

And look, I'm not a premium member. I've used Nexus since Oblivion, and I never donated either. Maybe in the long run, this'll be a good thing. Maybe I should join premium and give a mod author a couple bucks here or there once a while. But I stand by my original point. Accepting money from this service is like Ulfric Stormcloak getting a cut of Thalmor money for fighting the Empire for them (who even knows, maybe he was). Even if the money amounts to an iron dagger. Its the principle.

sesom wrote: Nexus is no leader. I don't have one.

phellen wrote: This makes sense from a business stand point. Remember guys, Valve wants free mods and paid mods to co-exist. This ensures the growth and stability of their paid workship. Free mods lead to people wanting to improve their skills and try their hand at selling mods. The main question is did the nexus know about all this beforehand? Did valve contact them to be the messengers, to predict and announce it was happening to kind of ease everyone in a little ahead of time? I'm unsure now, although I'd like to believe that the nexus was just as surprised as we all were.

Milleuros wrote: @phellen :

They were contacted beforehands so they could make the agreement on the 1-5% part. There is somewhere on this comment page a link to Nexus' answer on Reddit.

empiric wrote: Slight correction: Valve wants paid mods and free mods to co-exist PRECISELY TO THE DEGREE OF WHATEVER MAKES THEM MOST MONEY.

1. Free mods make them money, by increasing sales of Skyrim.
2. Paid mods make them additional money by the direct sales of the mods.

There is no community concern or altruism here outside of maximizing dollars and cents. The instant an option exists where 2 makes more money than 1, they'll destroy free mods in an instant. It's a corporation.

Rifleman556 wrote: Liability.

AvengerJikir wrote: @phellen: According to his reddit post, he only found out about this a few weeks ago. As in, after his predictive article. It does look a bit dodgy that he was actually right, but then again; in hindsight, many of us should have predicted it if we'd really paid attention to what Valve's been up to lately.

And I really see nothing wrong with taking a cut from this. As long as they haven't signed a contract stopping them from still making an argument against Valve's actions, it's fine. They haven't sold out; they're just taking free money with seemingly no conditions. Maybe Valve are just trying to make themselves feel better about the whole thing by at least doing something right.(even if they've messed everything else up)

Shubal wrote: The way I read it was that the MOD AUTHORS had an option to divide their meager 25% share with tool makers and sites they feel were important. Nexus was designated a site a grateful author might point some of his share too. Off course the corporate bean counting c88k suck8rs 75% was not touched. So I wouldn't say Nexus was in on the deal unless everyone else on that list is so considered.

If it's the modders share that gets divided up makes sense. It doesn't make sense that the modders would be given a choice to divvy up some of valves profit.

[marthgun]

In response to post #24599664. #24599799, #24599829, #24599839, #24599979, #24600139, #24600194, #24600244, #24600359, #24600494, #24600539, #24600884, #24600989, #24601494, #24602579, #24602799, #24604084, #24604459, #24604609, #24605019, #24605464 are all replies on the same post.

G18AkimboNoob wrote:

Eiries wrote:

However, The Nexus is a listed Service Provider on the curated Workshop, and they are profiting from Workshop sales. They are saying one thing, while simultaneously taking their cut.

I don't see how mentioning "these guys have mods too" constitutes Nexusmods making money off of this (except through traffic which he has no control over.)

Citation from bossman requested.

LtRhapthorne wrote: So Dark0ne is being as greedy as Valve

Unless he personally responds to these accusations, I'm going to ask for my account to be banned. I don't have local copies of my mods. They'll be dead forever.

PickleJar wrote: Yeah, Dark0ne needs to post about this.

LoneHP wrote:

Citation from bossman requested.

No bleeding joke on that. A statement regarding what Chesko revealed is required to begin with, because actual money has likely flowed here over Chesko's (and Fores' ) work with no indication of such.

CiderMuffin wrote: If it's from ad revenue that's an unfair statement for Chesko to make, numerous sites do ad revenue in order to make ends meet. As far as I see it I don't get how the Nexus could make money off of this as they have no part in the transactions. I think this is just Chesko using the negative PR they're getting to hurt someone else out of spite.

Eiries wrote: Chesko's been colossally wrong about a lot of stuff over the past 24 hours so I can't help but feel he's just trying to take the heat off himself and place it on Robin. We'll see, I'm sure he'll say something.

The 3rd Type wrote: http://puu.sh/hpnwE/1fa0ce9998.png

Eiries wrote:

http://puu.sh/hpnwE/1fa0ce9998.png

Totally making bank on this scandal. Totally. Hey dude.

The 3rd Type wrote: Hey Eiries. You ever get around to those Flamer Textures :^)

StaciKrash wrote: Arthmoor is also saying the same about robin

shinkicker404 wrote: link

He did reply to Chesko in Reddit.

teppic1 wrote: " Was this a risky, perhaps bold, thing to go ahead with? Yes. Was it a bit crappy of me? Also yes. But it was a risk I took, and the outcome was largely dependent on the FNIS author's reaction to the situation. He was not happy, so I took steps to resolve it. I did not "steal animations" or "steal content""

I don't agree with this at all. You cannot knowingly use someone else's work without permission for monetary profit and then call it a risk as to whether they would be happy with that or not. It's not his place to do that.

TheSabi wrote: hmm this is AFTER he used someone else assests in a mod and got caught. He's not new to modding, he knws better. This comes off more as make everyone else look like the bad guy whao is me redirecting.

He is quoted in those articles and in his letter he knew FULL WELL he shouldn't be using them and using the scapegoat of valve saying "if the download was separate and free, it was fair game." He admits FNIS isn't needed so he could have waited or just not include them like with Arissa 2.0.

Sorry if I'm not buying "nexus is evil too" after that.

Thaiauxn wrote: All of this insane traffic is going to cost the Nexus thousands of dollars per day, and we're not recouping that cost.

The only way for Nexus to try and get that back is if Valve extended an olive branch with a service provider option. That sounds like a reasonable attempt at removing the strain they've created on the site.

WightMage wrote: Dark0ne DID respond a little bit regarding the supposed 1-5 percent cut Nexus might get- It's entirely at the nodder's discretion to choose a site or two that they can give 1-5 percent of their profit to. In other words, a donation.

Chesko, unfortunately, did not choose to give the Nexus anything.

So as far as I'm concerned, this hardly the Nexus being hypocritical, since in theory it is entirely up to the modders to decide if and when they get anything.

alsoran wrote: Big fish eat little fish.

phellen wrote:

Does the 1-5% comes out of the modders profit or Valves profit share? If it's from the modders then I can believe that the nexus didn't know about it ahead of time, but if it's out of Valves profit...then I think that's a grey area to try and say "we didn't know, we're just as surprised as the rest of the community"

Earlier Dark0ne said it was Valve's profit, but maybe that was a typo?

marthgun wrote: calm down guise.

The way i understand it is that the MOD AUTHOR can elect to make Nexus a Service Provider / Curator and proceeds will go them from sales.

I don't think its Nexus decision to be chosen. It's only unethical if they coerce people into this. I would like an official statement as well just to clarify, but I don' t think Nexus accepting money from essentially donations is wrong.

phellen wrote: Just to be clear I don't have a problem with it either way it's fine. It makes sense from a business stand point, and it's ultimately a good thing for the nexus to be supported in another way. They either become part of the way the modding landscape is changing or in the end they may be left out all together. I just think it's always better to be up front with information and to be transparent and all that. That's all I'm saying, and maybe this is all just speculation but some clarification would be nice.

gingersnapples wrote: Dark0ne has made a comment on this. go to the reddit post, scroll down.

@phellen

but if virtually anyone can be a Curator / Service Provider, how could they know who would give them money?

Anyone can give them money, that should be obvious, and 1-5% is peanuts. We shouldn't pretend that Nexus will be raking in the shekels on this deal, UNLESS all mods had to be paid mods, in which case it seems very odd that Nexus would come out so heavily against this idea.

I'm sure Dark0ne had either felt the winds of change or someone tipped him off for him to go on thta massive tirade against paid mods a month ago. Either way this was always an inevitability, but the screw job that commenced was not what i expected.

[phellen]

In response to post #24599664. #24599799, #24599829, #24599839, #24599979, #24600139, #24600194, #24600244, #24600359, #24600494, #24600539, #24600884, #24600989, #24601494, #24602579, #24602799, #24604084, #24604459, #24604609, #24605019, #24605464, #24605579 are all replies on the same post.

G18AkimboNoob wrote:

Eiries wrote:

However, The Nexus is a listed Service Provider on the curated Workshop, and they are profiting from Workshop sales. They are saying one thing, while simultaneously taking their cut.

I don't see how mentioning "these guys have mods too" constitutes Nexusmods making money off of this (except through traffic which he has no control over.)

Citation from bossman requested.

LtRhapthorne wrote: So Dark0ne is being as greedy as Valve

Unless he personally responds to these accusations, I'm going to ask for my account to be banned. I don't have local copies of my mods. They'll be dead forever.

PickleJar wrote: Yeah, Dark0ne needs to post about this.

LoneHP wrote:

Citation from bossman requested.

No bleeding joke on that. A statement regarding what Chesko revealed is required to begin with, because actual money has likely flowed here over Chesko's (and Fores' ) work with no indication of such.

CiderMuffin wrote: If it's from ad revenue that's an unfair statement for Chesko to make, numerous sites do ad revenue in order to make ends meet. As far as I see it I don't get how the Nexus could make money off of this as they have no part in the transactions. I think this is just Chesko using the negative PR they're getting to hurt someone else out of spite.

Eiries wrote: Chesko's been colossally wrong about a lot of stuff over the past 24 hours so I can't help but feel he's just trying to take the heat off himself and place it on Robin. We'll see, I'm sure he'll say something.

The 3rd Type wrote: http://puu.sh/hpnwE/1fa0ce9998.png

Eiries wrote:

http://puu.sh/hpnwE/1fa0ce9998.png

Totally making bank on this scandal. Totally. Hey dude.

The 3rd Type wrote: Hey Eiries. You ever get around to those Flamer Textures :^)

StaciKrash wrote: Arthmoor is also saying the same about robin

shinkicker404 wrote: link

He did reply to Chesko in Reddit.

teppic1 wrote: " Was this a risky, perhaps bold, thing to go ahead with? Yes. Was it a bit crappy of me? Also yes. But it was a risk I took, and the outcome was largely dependent on the FNIS author's reaction to the situation. He was not happy, so I took steps to resolve it. I did not "steal animations" or "steal content""

I don't agree with this at all. You cannot knowingly use someone else's work without permission for monetary profit and then call it a risk as to whether they would be happy with that or not. It's not his place to do that.

TheSabi wrote: hmm this is AFTER he used someone else assests in a mod and got caught. He's not new to modding, he knws better. This comes off more as make everyone else look like the bad guy whao is me redirecting.

He is quoted in those articles and in his letter he knew FULL WELL he shouldn't be using them and using the scapegoat of valve saying "if the download was separate and free, it was fair game." He admits FNIS isn't needed so he could have waited or just not include them like with Arissa 2.0.

Sorry if I'm not buying "nexus is evil too" after that.

Thaiauxn wrote: All of this insane traffic is going to cost the Nexus thousands of dollars per day, and we're not recouping that cost.

The only way for Nexus to try and get that back is if Valve extended an olive branch with a service provider option. That sounds like a reasonable attempt at removing the strain they've created on the site.

WightMage wrote: Dark0ne DID respond a little bit regarding the supposed 1-5 percent cut Nexus might get- It's entirely at the nodder's discretion to choose a site or two that they can give 1-5 percent of their profit to. In other words, a donation.

Chesko, unfortunately, did not choose to give the Nexus anything.

So as far as I'm concerned, this hardly the Nexus being hypocritical, since in theory it is entirely up to the modders to decide if and when they get anything.

alsoran wrote: Big fish eat little fish.

phellen wrote:

Does the 1-5% comes out of the modders profit or Valves profit share? If it's from the modders then I can believe that the nexus didn't know about it ahead of time, but if it's out of Valves profit...then I think that's a grey area to try and say "we didn't know, we're just as surprised as the rest of the community"

Earlier Dark0ne said it was Valve's profit, but maybe that was a typo?

marthgun wrote: calm down guise.

The way i understand it is that the MOD AUTHOR can elect to make Nexus a Service Provider / Curator and proceeds will go them from sales.

I don't think its Nexus decision to be chosen. It's only unethical if they coerce people into this. I would like an official statement as well just to clarify, but I don' t think Nexus accepting money from essentially donations is wrong.

phellen wrote: Just to be clear I don't have a problem with it either way it's fine. It makes sense from a business stand point, and it's ultimately a good thing for the nexus to be supported in another way. They either become part of the way the modding landscape is changing or in the end they may be left out all together. I just think it's always better to be up front with information and to be transparent and all that. That's all I'm saying, and maybe this is all just speculation but some clarification would be nice.

gingersnapples wrote: Dark0ne has made a comment on this. go to the reddit post, scroll down.

marthgun wrote: @phellen

but if virtually anyone can be a Curator / Service Provider, how could they know who would give them money?

Anyone can give them money, that should be obvious, and 1-5% is peanuts. We shouldn't pretend that Nexus will be raking in the shekels on this deal, UNLESS all mods had to be paid mods, in which case it seems very odd that Nexus would come out so heavily against this idea.

I'm sure Dark0ne had either felt the winds of change or someone tipped him off for him to go on thta massive tirade against paid mods a month ago. Either way this was always an inevitability, but the screw job that commenced was not what i expected.

ah I see it, Thankyou.

@marthgun

Like I said in an earlier post, I don't really have a problem with the actual agreement. If It will benefit the nexus then that is a good thing. Keeping things transparent with the community is really important too, that's really all I'm saying.

@Gingersnapples

Thankyou for pointing me to that thread. :) Edited April 24, 2015 by phellen

[numeriku]

"To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again: and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself. That was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed.

Even to understand the word ‘doublethink’ involved the use of doublethink."

[allugr81]

It's a sad day when it comes to this, I want not only for any modders to be safe in enjoying their work but for the whole PC platform to be safe. People have been modding games since PC gaming first existed, it shouldn't turn into an Xbox live cash cow. Valve have f*#@ed up. Sad day.

[troggleballs]

At first, my reaction to this was "This might just as well mean that a lot of full-time effort can be put into mods and make them absolutely amazing, expansion-class additions to the game!" But I soon came to the horrifying truth; content is stolen, mods that require SKSE, and a whole lot of trust for one another dies in the process. I am a cynical person, and as thus I always try to be positive, even in the worst situations. I am my true cynical self about this.

 

I have seen Jim Sterling's Slaughtering Grounds debacle. I have seen the ugly messes that passes off for games on Steam these days. I know Steam got no eye for quality, copyright infringement or anything. Hell, there is currently a pay-mod with an armor set only available through console! Through CONSOLE! I rarely see even the simplest of armor mods do that here!

 

Here is another big issue: People who play with mods love to play with mods, which means they won't be running just one. Here, we are all on the same level which means that if you run into problems, it will be easy to discuss troubleshooting. For these mods, it won't be that easy. The author has his own little forum, sure, but he could just as well make some mod that sounds awesome, is riddled with dirty edits and see the money roll in, and they will. Crashes and other issues will mostly likely ruin the day for everyone not used in using mods, believing these are extrordinarily fine mods with no problems whatsoever. Remember how Skyrim itself got dirty edits that can break the game entirely with a modded game, and you won't notice this until countless hours in? Yeah...

 

I am really surprised the early access and steam greenlight programs haven't drawn in more lawsuits.

 

I am probably treading familiar waters, but I just needed to say my part.

[Deleted437972User]

It looks like a full community implosion is on the cards! :.(

[thestoryteller01]

Even if the Nexus would make a cut of the Mod sales, I would never hold it against them.

 

If Valve asks a modder if he wants to give away 5% of Bethesdas share to one of their listed service providers, of course he'd choose the Nexus. And why should the Nexus not want to be connected to the modding community on Steam too? No one is an Island on the web -and if they actually make money through that.....why not? After all this site is a full-time job for several people and hosting is not for free either.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think Valve has made a terrible decision that damaged the community for a long time - but exactly that is not what should happen, that the community gets divided. We all should blame Valve and only Valve for any trouble we have and learn a lesson from this.

[reyzark]

In response to post #24598619. #24599869, #24600084, #24600544, #24604719 are all replies on the same post.

LeianneG wrote:

Psijonica wrote: THIS

I agree 100% that Bethesda may license the CK. I said it before and I'll say it again; this whole problem started when "donations" popped up. Onc3e the gaming companies saw that users were willing to pay for mods, and donations are a form of payment then it was obvious to the rest of us who understand law and business that they (the gaming companies) would protect their products.

If anyone thinks that they own their mods or that you can collect money for mods that use their (the gaming companies) platform (the game itself) then you are absolutely crazy. the gaming companies are the ones who invested the money and it is they who are creating the jobs! And that is what counts. Jobs... Governments will change the laws and support the companies that create jobs in their states and countries.

In the future people will buy mods like they do music from the iStore. There will always be free mods available so there will always be a Nexusmods however, the real talented modders that create new world spaces and quests, or top notch armour models and massive game change mods will test their alpha and beta mods for free on the Nexusmods sites and then move their final updated and improved mod to Steam.

It is inevitable...

Ask any old timer what they feel about the kids who think they own their mods... they used to think they were crazy and disliked it. Now those kids are adults and spoiled the modding commmunity and so we are now left with a new generation who not only beleive that they own their mods, that they can pay modders a 'tip" or "donation" without consequence.

I don't like it but I have to say, "I told you so."

CiderMuffin wrote: Actually from the looks of it most of those kinds of modders (trainwiz, the mannimarco team, Beyond skyrim, Elianora.) disapprove of this practice greatly and it could follow suit with even more world-building mod teams and modders. Sure there are going to be those ones that believe they should get paid for their work but in the end the chances of a big mod like Falskaar or Wrymstooth would end up doing worse on the paid mod market as their content is so big it would take over the refund period to do everything they offer and for players to see if the mod causes problems.

Psijonica wrote: @ CiderMuffin

You are making some big assumptions and I disagree will your main point.

If you read what I wrote then you should know already that Trainwiz (god bless him) is an old time modder and who doesn't fall into this new generation. I predicted this would happen 4 years ago over at Modsreloaded and I was attacked and laughed at. My post is still there so I have proof of the prediction that the future would be pay-for-mods and that the gaming companies would be the ones to enforce it.

Just like today I predicted that the gaming companies will continue to protect their assets. It is a no-brainer.

There is a way that the Nexusmods could fight back but I am not willing to share my business model yet and I am not convinced that Darone is really the white night he is proclaiming himself as. Time will tell...

Just because trainwiz and other modders, who by the way are financially secure in their lives won't charge for their DLC typee mods, I already know for a fact that their are modding communities that are creating DLC type mods for sale on STEAM right now.

Sorry but it is time to open your eyes. I know you don't like what you are hearing but I promise you that you really won't like what you wil;l soon be seeing.

adragon82 wrote: Fear mongering?

I take it you never played Sims 2 or Spore?

Outside of the Mod the Sims site it was TOXIC and there were even lawsuits by modders against each other.

As for Spore, the game ate itself and modders were flagging work for "similarities" claiming their ideas were being copied...it stifled the game because people were not working together, not collaborating at all.

What Nexus needs to do is just expand their donations, include the button on ALL mod pages and make it so any amount can be donated...even 50 cents.

The last thing we need is for modders to start guarding their resources and not sharing in hopes to lessen the amount of competition to make more money.

kudos for u Adragon Edited April 24, 2015 by reyzark

[xAsura]

This whole thing is a mess. Having mods as paid content is just stupid. Donations sure I whole hearty support that but outright paid mods no. Modding your game is a long and grueling process to getting a exceptionally stable build. When I create a new mod setup I'm changing mods out left and right but with paid mods now I have to pay to do this with no guarantee that it will actually work or be stable with my setup. Now anyone correct me if I'm wrong but you can only get a refund for these mods in stream wallet credits which are useless outside of steam so Valve ends up with my money no matter what. So even if I wanted to try a mod it just become to risky of being useless if said mod won't work well with my setup. It's one thing with paying for official DLC you can expect it to work outright and if not it will have constant support to fix anything wrong with it but with mods that guarantee of support just isn't there.