Quick updates to the site, money money money edition

[AKcelsior]

In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354, #24617394, #24617519, #24618004, #24618149, #24618159, #24618169, #24618264, #24618289, #24618509, #24618574, #24618634, #24619184, #24619264, #24619524, #24619749, #24619879, #24620069, #24620089, #24620334, #24620539, #24620654, #24620834, #24620909, #24621039, #24621124 are all replies on the same post.

phenderix wrote:

BluemaxDR wrote: I sincerely wish you good luck.

As for me, I'm going to take a break from modding Skyrim for a while. Well except for updating one because Raulfin is updating the combat system in his and I feel obliged to keep mine up to date.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Thank you and apart from questioning whether you feel it totally justified to advertise Steam Workshop on the Nexus, I would like to ask if you think you should get at least 75% of that $2.99.

To pay rent with.

Axeface wrote: Good luck phenderix. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing and it is an inevitable progression in gaming and modding, I havent used your mods because they dont suit me personally - but they suit a lot of people and have value. Please try to 'weather the storm' of rabid screaming masses on the forums until the storm clears. Maybe you could provide some kind of extra incentive to buy, while still offering the free option?

Cheers, good luck. Keep calm and keep modding :)

phenderix wrote: While the file is still pending review here is a list of features I intend to add using a goal system.

Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

BluemaxDR wrote:

Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

Like kickstarter....smart.

Turnstyles wrote: I wish you luck, though I am sorry to say that this may kill peoples trust in you as a modder. I make this in no ill way, but as a statement. This does not guarantee good mods at all, and incentivises theft of assets for profit. I hope you take this well.

Axeface wrote: @Turnstyles.
"Trust in him as a modder" - what does that even mean? Trust that you can take from him forever and never give anything back other than an optional 'endorsement' click?

OiramX5 wrote: I understand your position but dont agree with your vision, you will receive only a little value of money (most go to Valve and Bethesda), but it is your work and time, you do what wish (And Valve too now, she will be your "partner" and owner of your mod, just read about Cheskos said it).

I respect you decision and wish you good luck with this.

Shadowmane01 wrote: Well I respect your decision you have a hobby and see a chance to make a few quid out of it why not. People do that with other hobby's such as arts and crafts and so on. I was initially very upset about this mods for money thing but I'm calming down a bit now. I do have a question though will your workshop edition use the MCM if so what % of the $2.99 goes to them ?.

phenderix wrote: Thanks for the mostly positive comments so far guys. Magic Evolved does not contain any assets created by other modders. I will certainly never be stealing ideas or content from other mods just to make a profit. I have enough original ideas for new mods and improvements on existing mods. :)


MCM is getting a portion of pay. My mod barely uses it but it will receive a portion of proceeds nevertheless.

Silki08 wrote: They should be paying you guys more. Like for reals.

butthead123 wrote: Good luck with that though i wish it felt like my money was going to you rather than valve :(

Maruun wrote: I cant be angry about it i just hope it wont bite you later...

Yerevans wrote: In the college, regarding IT in business, we have discussions regarding strategies companies use to transfer costs and work to customers to profit more.
This is such strategy in place, Bethesda does not care anymore about Skyrim, they want free and easy money, as does Valve.

This will stimulate companies to release more broken and half finished games, not that the community will not only fix it to them for free, as they will actually profit more for people doing it.

That is not modding anymore, that is 3rd party DLC, outsourcing activities, reducing exposure and liability.

I would love to hear from you if you are actually getting any reasonable amount of money, most likely you will, but philosophically I despite this, as whenever people compete by finite resources things go ugly.

But I guess this is the real ugly truth of this era, where god was killed by reason and reason replaced by money, selfishness will always prevail upon altruism.
"Each to his own and God against all" this is the nature of the world and humanity.

Darkieus wrote: ...And unendorsed and uninstalled.

I don't like Workshop, and I don't like the idea of being forced to pay for a 'Mod' (which by this point is no longer a mod, but a DLC item).

I hope this system doesn't pass onto Fallout 4. Sorry.

Vault Tec wrote: I wish you luck in your endeavors as I'm one of the many refusing to 'buy' mods due to many reasons but I'd also like to mention, VALVe and Bethesda are getting 75% of that $3 you intend to charge. You aren't going to be earning much from your endeavors especially since it was discovered yesterday that a person can buy your mod, copy the files out of the Data folder and ask for a refund. They've got the mod for free at this point and you're out of pocket.

anonownsyou wrote: As I said, everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their effort. You guys deserve 75% of your beef jerky though, not no sad 25%

Best of luck in this, I admire your optimism regarding this pushing towards quality rather than quantity, and I surely hope you're right.

TheEyelessWanderer wrote: I'm going to take care to specifically not purchase, download, endorse, or promote anything you create.

(I suggest everyone else takes the same course of action. This individual followed the gold scent. We all know where it inevitably leads.)

Ghatto wrote: This is what I was afraid of happening. It not like I don't think modders deserve any compensation, or that they can't value their work financially. It's the transformation, the necessary consideration of it that every modder will now have and how that makes them a different kind of artist and a completely different member of a now fractured mod community. Before now I'd never heard nor thought of a modder 'in it for the money', that any of their mods were being advertised like product; it was always just something they made that would improve the game and the community was reciprocative in those efforts. Now those same modders will filling their own artistic visions of their mods with thought about how much they deserve for it, something they never had to, or wanted to do while they were lovingly making mods for fun/enjoyment/challenge etc.

Everything was fine until now. Mods that were made, were made. Mods that weren't made, weren't. The community doesn't 'need' to give back, because they were never taking - modders were only ever giving, in a community of only ever giving.

WileCoyote68 wrote: Hi phenderix,
My native language/mother tongue is german and because of this fact my choosen game language is german. You say you will release the new Version of your mod only via Steam Workshop and Paid Content. Now one simple question to you: Will your mod being available as a multi-lingual version on the Workshoip? If not, then why the hell should a german, italian, french.... customer pay for it? I can understand that you have putted a lot of work in your creations, but going behind the pay wall should inlcude that you provide the same service as Bethesda did when they released Skyrim and the DLC's. If this is not a legitimate concern for you, then everything you said about your decision is only a lie. Then you care only about the money and nothing more

UnitedStrafes wrote: Never paid for a mod never will, not in Skyrim and not in Fallout 4, When I start making mods which I plan to do for Fallout It won't be because I'm expecting some compensation. Steam is full of bad ideas lately and is turning from something that was very cool into video game Wal-Mart sad really.

It's nice you spent so much time making your mod and I hope you do well, but anyone needing to be compensated for modding leads to me not needing that mod........EVER.

Draugas wrote: I'm not going to say whether or not I agree, I wish you luck.

But.

I do think you do yourself a diservice by choosing to do this *now*.

This is new, people are in an uproar, Valvthesda is exploiting modders with the percentage (opinion).

Are the potential repercussions worth putting your mod up on day two of the storm?

Silki08 wrote: Hi, I'm essentially someone genuinely trying to understand the shift. Things may be rough right now and I hope that through some of my questions you can alleviate some issues about modders going through the payment option on Steam Workshop. I'll try to organize this as best I can for your benefit.

1. To make a hobby into a career is a dream many people have in the world. However, being paid such a paltry amount for something that is essentially your design and creation seems like you are being taken advantage of. Has there been any negotiations on the part of mod authors to get a better share of the profits?

[in my opinion, for modders to be paid for putting comprehensive, functional, and revolutionary mods is a good thing. Being paid for it with something that seems even more extreme than indentured servitude seems wrong.]

2. Do you think this will effect modding for future games? Many gamers would feel that essential mods may one day be behind a paywall. For example, the new elder scrolls or fallout games may have a weak UI system. This prompts the SkyUI team to develop a better UI for the game. However this new UI mod will be behind a paywall from day one. Perhaps there is a framework that allows for mods to work in a cohesive form but must be bought to make a multitude of mods to work together. Is this acceptable in your opinion?

3. Many mods are a combined effort with those who have a distinct passion for their creation. How would the distribution of income be handled should their be assets from another mod that is free located within a mod that has been monetized?

4. How much of a cut do you think creators of these mods should have? If 25% is acceptable skip this question.

5. Many people feel that they are not actually supporting the mod authors by only having 25% of the commission go to the authors themselves. If more people donated from the start, would you have opted in this program?

6. In light of question 5. How many people actually have donated to you over your modding career?

7. How many hours have you spent on modding? This includes time spent on support, compatibility, and communication with the community.

8. In your opinion, is Valve and Bethesda doing this for the benefit of the modding community or for themselves?

9. In your opinion, should an item mod be the same price as an expansive mod? For comparisons sake, an armor mod vs a quest mod that includes: Armor, weapons, characters, buildings, locations, etc.

10. Some may argue that modding is for the community. That a group of individuals come together to make something that people with a common interest can enjoy. Do you think by going through this route, this is still possible? For example disagreements between collaborators may now increase because of this monetization option.

11. Multilingual support is usually done without the original authors help. Will multilingual support for all incredibly popular mods completely cease?

phenderix wrote: I genuinely think that this is a very good thing for the modding community.

More people will put in more time to creating better mods for Skyrim. I would gladly pay $5-10 for more mods like Falskar or Alternate Start.

I recently got a job in NYC financial district and have no where near as much time as I used to have to mod. This makes it a more compelling case to mod even when I don't have much free time anymore.

I will be using the premium version as a sort of kickstarter type campaign to fund more features added to the mod. I will be adding new worldspace and many new spells and features if people support the mod.

My mod doesn't simply add one item or do something very simple. It adds over 300 new spells to the game along with perks and other scripted features. All bug-free as of latest version. This is something I think people should want to purchase.

I understand the points a lot of you are making. I think that once this all settles that it will be an overall good thing. The 25% thing is a little ridiculous but I bet that this will eventually increase over time. I have no problem with Bethesda getting at least 50% since they created the game and creation kit to allow me to mod.

phantompally76 wrote: I can only disagree, emphatically. But that's not going to change your mind.

I won't be downloading, installing, or endorsing your mods anymore.

And frankly, that goes for anyone else that buys into this horsecrap. No matter how much you want to make yourselves believe that you're helping the modding community.....you're effectively killing it, and I REFUSE to be complicit in this betrayal.

phenderix wrote: Some very strong words. Thanks for the unendorse :)

CommanderJuraks wrote: The game creators and the file site "hosters" by far should be getting the larger portion of the cut, they literally made the game and are hosting/sharing your file(s) for download without them doing 80% of the leg work to make the mod possible in the first place there wouldn't even be a mod.

I personally don't like the concept of paying for something that was originally intended to be free and a hobby. Should the community be more gratuitous towards mod authors, absolutely but it shouldn't drive them(mod authors) to the point of hiding their works behind a pay-wall of any sort. Because let's face it, most mods aren't worth the money. While most of the mods in the "Top 100" lists here on the nexus are worth 1 dollar to 8 dollars that is just a fraction of a percent of the mods on the skyrim nexus alone that worth that bit of money. I'd rather be prompted to donate as thanks than be forced to pay for a retexture of someone else's work. My main fear with these new developments(paying for mods) is that almost every tom, dick, and harry mod maker will go hide behind a pay-wall even when the mod isn't even worth paying for.

That all being said, I appreciate modders and what they do my solution to this situation works something like this. Youtube video authors receive payment for how many views their videos get within a given period of time. The more "subscribers" they have the more almost guaranteed views they have. Why not work something out like that with the nexus?
Where if you endorse or give kudos to a specific author you get a notification every time that author uploads/updates a file. Mod authors would be payed on how many views or downloads their mods get in a given period of time(ex: a month or two weeks). The behind the scenes of how the pay would come out of the Nexus' total revenue could be worked out similarily to, again, how youtube does it. MEANING: I'd rather see mod authors paid in similar fashion to how youtube channel/video authors are being payed.

While the nexus may not like losing a bit of it's total profit this is a viable alternative to letting mod authors hide behind pay-walls whether the mod is worth the price or not.

I hope it works out for the best of the entire community and doesn't create a union of lazy people screaming for a handout or larger commission.

phantompally76 wrote: Oh, you're more than welcome, sir. Good day.

phenderix wrote: @CommanderJuraks
I completely agree with a lot of the points you listed.
That is why only one of my mods is making this transition.
The other 7 are remaining Nexus exclusives and forever free.

jet4571 wrote: Good luck seeing that happen.

A bit of advice for you, if you are not modding for your own game then releasing because others may enjoy it as well then you are doing it wrong. If your motivation is recognition and money then grab either the Unreal or Unity engine and make something you own and sell it. You will get the recognition if the game is good and make far more than the %25 Beth and Valve is offering.

I have been modding since Windows 95 was the latest OS and Win 98 was just around the corner, Had Paypal donations available since 2006 I think and not received one donation and during the mid 2000's I was making complete game overhauls that took a year or more to make without a proper SDK like the CK. As in Hex editor was an essential tool to get every 3D model working. Not a single donation for 4 years spending almost every free moment creating lists in a text editor and changing 3d Models in a hex editor. And you know what? Even if those were the top downloaded mods for the 3 games they were made for that's perfectly fine. Why? Because I did it for myself first. I have an unfinished game using the Unreal engine that I can work on but making it for a job just isn't as fun.

I hope you understand that I am offering advice on how to keep modding fun and still have a place for creating something for recognition and money and that none of this was an attack. I do feel you are modding for the wrong reasons and that's why the donations thing gets to you.

cplfernandez wrote: If people really believed in the donate option, wouldn't they be lining up to donat money to you in order to try to change your mind? Is that happening?

jfisha wrote: If you're giving some money to SkyUI for use of their MCM, don't forget to kickback some to SKSE, since the MCM relies on that

phenderix wrote: @jet4571
Thanks for the comment. I think that is one reason I have decided to do this. I mainly mod for other people instead of myself. It is not really that exciting to use spells that you created.

@cplfernandez
Donation does not work, period. I have received one donation in almost 3 years of modding. People act like the system is fine, but never donate. Some other model needs to be implemented. If one were introduced I would definitely listen.

@akkalat85
Once again, this makes no sense. If my mod gets a purchase on the Steam Workshop the Skyrim Nexus will receive part of the revenue. Please research how the new system will work.

akkalat85 wrote: @phenderix: So far no one has brought fourth evidence for that claim. You will have to excuse my disbelief, but I don't believe things just because someone said so. If you have a link, please share it.

The only thing that would make me happier than being right, is being wrong. If a mod author lists the nexus as an influential figure in helping them in their modding hobby they can opt to list them, just as people have listed AFK mods (who also runs a free hosting service), You could list google if you wanted too.

Impulseman45 wrote: I can understand putting allot of time into modding. I have put hundreds of hours into making meshes that are now on permanent hold because of possible theft by the creeps at the Steam Workshop. Anyone who has a mod and it gets put behind that pay-wall without their consent will never get it taken down. Vavle has all but said all mods are far game to steal the content from. So you are joining the side that is going to steal its way to power. Someone has already stolen and posted Soolies Real Clouds mod there today. And, do you realize that they own your mods from now on. Just look at what Chesko said about trying to take his mod down. They got what they wanted from him and that is what they will with you. Good luck. Your going to need it.

Hold it man, that's not cool. Not about you uploading the workshop, who cares... but about you using this nexus topic as a means to promote a 3rd party pay site. You advertising "future" features like that here is pretty shady.

Valve is giving you all the boost you need, but to come to a free site and self promote your paid product is just low. Edited April 25, 2015 by akkalat85

[phenderix]

In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354, #24617394, #24617519, #24618004, #24618149, #24618159, #24618169, #24618264, #24618289, #24618509, #24618574, #24618634, #24619184, #24619264, #24619524, #24619749, #24619879, #24620069, #24620089, #24620334, #24620539, #24620654, #24620834, #24620854 are all replies on the same post.

phenderix wrote:

BluemaxDR wrote: I sincerely wish you good luck.

As for me, I'm going to take a break from modding Skyrim for a while. Well except for updating one because Raulfin is updating the combat system in his and I feel obliged to keep mine up to date.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Thank you and apart from questioning whether you feel it totally justified to advertise Steam Workshop on the Nexus, I would like to ask if you think you should get at least 75% of that $2.99.

To pay rent with.

Axeface wrote: Good luck phenderix. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing and it is an inevitable progression in gaming and modding, I havent used your mods because they dont suit me personally - but they suit a lot of people and have value. Please try to 'weather the storm' of rabid screaming masses on the forums until the storm clears. Maybe you could provide some kind of extra incentive to buy, while still offering the free option?

Cheers, good luck. Keep calm and keep modding :)

phenderix wrote: While the file is still pending review here is a list of features I intend to add using a goal system.

Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

BluemaxDR wrote:

Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

Like kickstarter....smart.

Turnstyles wrote: I wish you luck, though I am sorry to say that this may kill peoples trust in you as a modder. I make this in no ill way, but as a statement. This does not guarantee good mods at all, and incentivises theft of assets for profit. I hope you take this well.

Axeface wrote: @Turnstyles.
"Trust in him as a modder" - what does that even mean? Trust that you can take from him forever and never give anything back other than an optional 'endorsement' click?

OiramX5 wrote: I understand your position but dont agree with your vision, you will receive only a little value of money (most go to Valve and Bethesda), but it is your work and time, you do what wish (And Valve too now, she will be your "partner" and owner of your mod, just read about Cheskos said it).

I respect you decision and wish you good luck with this.

Shadowmane01 wrote: Well I respect your decision you have a hobby and see a chance to make a few quid out of it why not. People do that with other hobby's such as arts and crafts and so on. I was initially very upset about this mods for money thing but I'm calming down a bit now. I do have a question though will your workshop edition use the MCM if so what % of the $2.99 goes to them ?.

phenderix wrote: Thanks for the mostly positive comments so far guys. Magic Evolved does not contain any assets created by other modders. I will certainly never be stealing ideas or content from other mods just to make a profit. I have enough original ideas for new mods and improvements on existing mods. :)


MCM is getting a portion of pay. My mod barely uses it but it will receive a portion of proceeds nevertheless.

Silki08 wrote: They should be paying you guys more. Like for reals.

butthead123 wrote: Good luck with that though i wish it felt like my money was going to you rather than valve :(

Maruun wrote: I cant be angry about it i just hope it wont bite you later...

Yerevans wrote: In the college, regarding IT in business, we have discussions regarding strategies companies use to transfer costs and work to customers to profit more.
This is such strategy in place, Bethesda does not care anymore about Skyrim, they want free and easy money, as does Valve.

This will stimulate companies to release more broken and half finished games, not that the community will not only fix it to them for free, as they will actually profit more for people doing it.

That is not modding anymore, that is 3rd party DLC, outsourcing activities, reducing exposure and liability.

I would love to hear from you if you are actually getting any reasonable amount of money, most likely you will, but philosophically I despite this, as whenever people compete by finite resources things go ugly.

But I guess this is the real ugly truth of this era, where god was killed by reason and reason replaced by money, selfishness will always prevail upon altruism.
"Each to his own and God against all" this is the nature of the world and humanity.

Darkieus wrote: ...And unendorsed and uninstalled.

I don't like Workshop, and I don't like the idea of being forced to pay for a 'Mod' (which by this point is no longer a mod, but a DLC item).

I hope this system doesn't pass onto Fallout 4. Sorry.

Vault Tec wrote: I wish you luck in your endeavors as I'm one of the many refusing to 'buy' mods due to many reasons but I'd also like to mention, VALVe and Bethesda are getting 75% of that $3 you intend to charge. You aren't going to be earning much from your endeavors especially since it was discovered yesterday that a person can buy your mod, copy the files out of the Data folder and ask for a refund. They've got the mod for free at this point and you're out of pocket.

anonownsyou wrote: As I said, everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their effort. You guys deserve 75% of your beef jerky though, not no sad 25%

Best of luck in this, I admire your optimism regarding this pushing towards quality rather than quantity, and I surely hope you're right.

TheEyelessWanderer wrote: I'm going to take care to specifically not purchase, download, endorse, or promote anything you create.

(I suggest everyone else takes the same course of action. This individual followed the gold scent. We all know where it inevitably leads.)

Ghatto wrote: This is what I was afraid of happening. It not like I don't think modders deserve any compensation, or that they can't value their work financially. It's the transformation, the necessary consideration of it that every modder will now have and how that makes them a different kind of artist and a completely different member of a now fractured mod community. Before now I'd never heard nor thought of a modder 'in it for the money', that any of their mods were being advertised like product; it was always just something they made that would improve the game and the community was reciprocative in those efforts. Now those same modders will filling their own artistic visions of their mods with thought about how much they deserve for it, something they never had to, or wanted to do while they were lovingly making mods for fun/enjoyment/challenge etc.

Everything was fine until now. Mods that were made, were made. Mods that weren't made, weren't. The community doesn't 'need' to give back, because they were never taking - modders were only ever giving, in a community of only ever giving.

WileCoyote68 wrote: Hi phenderix,
My native language/mother tongue is german and because of this fact my choosen game language is german. You say you will release the new Version of your mod only via Steam Workshop and Paid Content. Now one simple question to you: Will your mod being available as a multi-lingual version on the Workshoip? If not, then why the hell should a german, italian, french.... customer pay for it? I can understand that you have putted a lot of work in your creations, but going behind the pay wall should inlcude that you provide the same service as Bethesda did when they released Skyrim and the DLC's. If this is not a legitimate concern for you, then everything you said about your decision is only a lie. Then you care only about the money and nothing more

UnitedStrafes wrote: Never paid for a mod never will, not in Skyrim and not in Fallout 4, When I start making mods which I plan to do for Fallout It won't be because I'm expecting some compensation. Steam is full of bad ideas lately and is turning from something that was very cool into video game Wal-Mart sad really.

It's nice you spent so much time making your mod and I hope you do well, but anyone needing to be compensated for modding leads to me not needing that mod........EVER.

Draugas wrote: I'm not going to say whether or not I agree, I wish you luck.

But.

I do think you do yourself a diservice by choosing to do this *now*.

This is new, people are in an uproar, Valvthesda is exploiting modders with the percentage (opinion).

Are the potential repercussions worth putting your mod up on day two of the storm?

Silki08 wrote: Hi, I'm essentially someone genuinely trying to understand the shift. Things may be rough right now and I hope that through some of my questions you can alleviate some issues about modders going through the payment option on Steam Workshop. I'll try to organize this as best I can for your benefit.

1. To make a hobby into a career is a dream many people have in the world. However, being paid such a paltry amount for something that is essentially your design and creation seems like you are being taken advantage of. Has there been any negotiations on the part of mod authors to get a better share of the profits?

[in my opinion, for modders to be paid for putting comprehensive, functional, and revolutionary mods is a good thing. Being paid for it with something that seems even more extreme than indentured servitude seems wrong.]

2. Do you think this will effect modding for future games? Many gamers would feel that essential mods may one day be behind a paywall. For example, the new elder scrolls or fallout games may have a weak UI system. This prompts the SkyUI team to develop a better UI for the game. However this new UI mod will be behind a paywall from day one. Perhaps there is a framework that allows for mods to work in a cohesive form but must be bought to make a multitude of mods to work together. Is this acceptable in your opinion?

3. Many mods are a combined effort with those who have a distinct passion for their creation. How would the distribution of income be handled should their be assets from another mod that is free located within a mod that has been monetized?

4. How much of a cut do you think creators of these mods should have? If 25% is acceptable skip this question.

5. Many people feel that they are not actually supporting the mod authors by only having 25% of the commission go to the authors themselves. If more people donated from the start, would you have opted in this program?

6. In light of question 5. How many people actually have donated to you over your modding career?

7. How many hours have you spent on modding? This includes time spent on support, compatibility, and communication with the community.

8. In your opinion, is Valve and Bethesda doing this for the benefit of the modding community or for themselves?

9. In your opinion, should an item mod be the same price as an expansive mod? For comparisons sake, an armor mod vs a quest mod that includes: Armor, weapons, characters, buildings, locations, etc.

10. Some may argue that modding is for the community. That a group of individuals come together to make something that people with a common interest can enjoy. Do you think by going through this route, this is still possible? For example disagreements between collaborators may now increase because of this monetization option.

11. Multilingual support is usually done without the original authors help. Will multilingual support for all incredibly popular mods completely cease?

phenderix wrote: I genuinely think that this is a very good thing for the modding community.

More people will put in more time to creating better mods for Skyrim. I would gladly pay $5-10 for more mods like Falskar or Alternate Start.

I recently got a job in NYC financial district and have no where near as much time as I used to have to mod. This makes it a more compelling case to mod even when I don't have much free time anymore.

I will be using the premium version as a sort of kickstarter type campaign to fund more features added to the mod. I will be adding new worldspace and many new spells and features if people support the mod.

My mod doesn't simply add one item or do something very simple. It adds over 300 new spells to the game along with perks and other scripted features. All bug-free as of latest version. This is something I think people should want to purchase.

I understand the points a lot of you are making. I think that once this all settles that it will be an overall good thing. The 25% thing is a little ridiculous but I bet that this will eventually increase over time. I have no problem with Bethesda getting at least 50% since they created the game and creation kit to allow me to mod.

phantompally76 wrote: I can only disagree, emphatically. But that's not going to change your mind.

I won't be downloading, installing, or endorsing your mods anymore.

And frankly, that goes for anyone else that buys into this horsecrap. No matter how much you want to make yourselves believe that you're helping the modding community.....you're effectively killing it, and I REFUSE to be complicit in this betrayal.

phenderix wrote: Some very strong words. Thanks for the unendorse :)

CommanderJuraks wrote: The game creators and the file site "hosters" by far should be getting the larger portion of the cut, they literally made the game and are hosting/sharing your file(s) for download without them doing 80% of the leg work to make the mod possible in the first place there wouldn't even be a mod.

I personally don't like the concept of paying for something that was originally intended to be free and a hobby. Should the community be more gratuitous towards mod authors, absolutely but it shouldn't drive them(mod authors) to the point of hiding their works behind a pay-wall of any sort. Because let's face it, most mods aren't worth the money. While most of the mods in the "Top 100" lists here on the nexus are worth 1 dollar to 8 dollars that is just a fraction of a percent of the mods on the skyrim nexus alone that worth that bit of money. I'd rather be prompted to donate as thanks than be forced to pay for a retexture of someone else's work. My main fear with these new developments(paying for mods) is that almost every tom, dick, and harry mod maker will go hide behind a pay-wall even when the mod isn't even worth paying for.

That all being said, I appreciate modders and what they do my solution to this situation works something like this. Youtube video authors receive payment for how many views their videos get within a given period of time. The more "subscribers" they have the more almost guaranteed views they have. Why not work something out like that with the nexus?
Where if you endorse or give kudos to a specific author you get a notification every time that author uploads/updates a file. Mod authors would be payed on how many views or downloads their mods get in a given period of time(ex: a month or two weeks). The behind the scenes of how the pay would come out of the Nexus' total revenue could be worked out similarily to, again, how youtube does it. MEANING: I'd rather see mod authors paid in similar fashion to how youtube channel/video authors are being payed.

While the nexus may not like losing a bit of it's total profit this is a viable alternative to letting mod authors hide behind pay-walls whether the mod is worth the price or not.

I hope it works out for the best of the entire community and doesn't create a union of lazy people screaming for a handout or larger commission.

phantompally76 wrote: Oh, you're more than welcome, sir. Good day.

phenderix wrote: @CommanderJuraks
I completely agree with a lot of the points you listed.
That is why only one of my mods is making this transition.
The other 7 are remaining Nexus exclusives and forever free.

jet4571 wrote: Good luck seeing that happen.

A bit of advice for you, if you are not modding for your own game then releasing because others may enjoy it as well then you are doing it wrong. If your motivation is recognition and money then grab either the Unreal or Unity engine and make something you own and sell it. You will get the recognition if the game is good and make far more than the %25 Beth and Valve is offering.

I have been modding since Windows 95 was the latest OS and Win 98 was just around the corner, Had Paypal donations available since 2006 I think and not received one donation and during the mid 2000's I was making complete game overhauls that took a year or more to make without a proper SDK like the CK. As in Hex editor was an essential tool to get every 3D model working. Not a single donation for 4 years spending almost every free moment creating lists in a text editor and changing 3d Models in a hex editor. And you know what? Even if those were the top downloaded mods for the 3 games they were made for that's perfectly fine. Why? Because I did it for myself first. I have an unfinished game using the Unreal engine that I can work on but making it for a job just isn't as fun.

I hope you understand that I am offering advice on how to keep modding fun and still have a place for creating something for recognition and money and that none of this was an attack. I do feel you are modding for the wrong reasons and that's why the donations thing gets to you.

cplfernandez wrote: If people really believed in the donate option, wouldn't they be lining up to donat money to you in order to try to change your mind? Is that happening?

jfisha wrote: If you're giving some money to SkyUI for use of their MCM, don't forget to kickback some to SKSE, since the MCM relies on that

akkalat85 wrote: Hold it man. That's just not cool. Not about you uploading the workshop, who cares... but about you using this nexus topic as a means to promote a 3rd party pay site. You advertising "future" features like that here is pretty shady. Valve is giving you all the boost you need, but to come to a free site and promote a paid product... that's just unethical.

@jet4571
Thanks for the comment. I think that is one reason I have decided to do this. I mainly mod for other people instead of myself. It is not really that exciting to use spells that you created.

@cplfernandez
Donation does not work, period. I have received one donation in almost 3 years of modding. People act like the system is fine, but never donate. Some other model needs to be implemented. If one were introduced I would definitely listen.

@akkalat85
Once again, this makes no sense. If my mod gets a purchase on the Steam Workshop the Skyrim Nexus will receive part of the revenue. Please research how the new system will work. Edited April 25, 2015 by phenderix

[pangallosr]

I know that taking assets from another author is bad, and I wonder how many mods that have used assets from one mod... actually came from another....... and on and on......

I can understand honest people trying to make some coffee or beer money once in awhile, I don't begrudge that either. But we don't really live in a honest world. Valve and Bethesda are companies, companies have employees, employees get paid and the company also needs to make a profit. Can't say I blame them..... but this was poorly thought out.

My biggest concern is the greediness to make a buck. I can imagine, lord I hope they aren't reading this, that they will come up with some patch for either the game or the ck and make all of our mods useless. Now to get a mod to work.... you will have to pay some nominal amount that unlocks the mods. There goes two and half years of my life in this game wasted.....

[AKcelsior]

In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354, #24617394, #24617519, #24618004, #24618149, #24618159, #24618169, #24618264, #24618289, #24618509, #24618574, #24618634, #24619184, #24619264, #24619524, #24619749, #24619879, #24620069, #24620089, #24620334, #24620539, #24620654, #24620834, #24620854, #24620909, #24621124 are all replies on the same post.

phenderix wrote:

BluemaxDR wrote: I sincerely wish you good luck.

As for me, I'm going to take a break from modding Skyrim for a while. Well except for updating one because Raulfin is updating the combat system in his and I feel obliged to keep mine up to date.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Thank you and apart from questioning whether you feel it totally justified to advertise Steam Workshop on the Nexus, I would like to ask if you think you should get at least 75% of that $2.99.

To pay rent with.

Axeface wrote: Good luck phenderix. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing and it is an inevitable progression in gaming and modding, I havent used your mods because they dont suit me personally - but they suit a lot of people and have value. Please try to 'weather the storm' of rabid screaming masses on the forums until the storm clears. Maybe you could provide some kind of extra incentive to buy, while still offering the free option?

Cheers, good luck. Keep calm and keep modding :)

phenderix wrote: While the file is still pending review here is a list of features I intend to add using a goal system.

Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

BluemaxDR wrote:

Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

Like kickstarter....smart.

Turnstyles wrote: I wish you luck, though I am sorry to say that this may kill peoples trust in you as a modder. I make this in no ill way, but as a statement. This does not guarantee good mods at all, and incentivises theft of assets for profit. I hope you take this well.

Axeface wrote: @Turnstyles.
"Trust in him as a modder" - what does that even mean? Trust that you can take from him forever and never give anything back other than an optional 'endorsement' click?

OiramX5 wrote: I understand your position but dont agree with your vision, you will receive only a little value of money (most go to Valve and Bethesda), but it is your work and time, you do what wish (And Valve too now, she will be your "partner" and owner of your mod, just read about Cheskos said it).

I respect you decision and wish you good luck with this.

Shadowmane01 wrote: Well I respect your decision you have a hobby and see a chance to make a few quid out of it why not. People do that with other hobby's such as arts and crafts and so on. I was initially very upset about this mods for money thing but I'm calming down a bit now. I do have a question though will your workshop edition use the MCM if so what % of the $2.99 goes to them ?.

phenderix wrote: Thanks for the mostly positive comments so far guys. Magic Evolved does not contain any assets created by other modders. I will certainly never be stealing ideas or content from other mods just to make a profit. I have enough original ideas for new mods and improvements on existing mods. :)


MCM is getting a portion of pay. My mod barely uses it but it will receive a portion of proceeds nevertheless.

Silki08 wrote: They should be paying you guys more. Like for reals.

butthead123 wrote: Good luck with that though i wish it felt like my money was going to you rather than valve :(

Maruun wrote: I cant be angry about it i just hope it wont bite you later...

Yerevans wrote: In the college, regarding IT in business, we have discussions regarding strategies companies use to transfer costs and work to customers to profit more.
This is such strategy in place, Bethesda does not care anymore about Skyrim, they want free and easy money, as does Valve.

This will stimulate companies to release more broken and half finished games, not that the community will not only fix it to them for free, as they will actually profit more for people doing it.

That is not modding anymore, that is 3rd party DLC, outsourcing activities, reducing exposure and liability.

I would love to hear from you if you are actually getting any reasonable amount of money, most likely you will, but philosophically I despite this, as whenever people compete by finite resources things go ugly.

But I guess this is the real ugly truth of this era, where god was killed by reason and reason replaced by money, selfishness will always prevail upon altruism.
"Each to his own and God against all" this is the nature of the world and humanity.

Darkieus wrote: ...And unendorsed and uninstalled.

I don't like Workshop, and I don't like the idea of being forced to pay for a 'Mod' (which by this point is no longer a mod, but a DLC item).

I hope this system doesn't pass onto Fallout 4. Sorry.

Vault Tec wrote: I wish you luck in your endeavors as I'm one of the many refusing to 'buy' mods due to many reasons but I'd also like to mention, VALVe and Bethesda are getting 75% of that $3 you intend to charge. You aren't going to be earning much from your endeavors especially since it was discovered yesterday that a person can buy your mod, copy the files out of the Data folder and ask for a refund. They've got the mod for free at this point and you're out of pocket.

anonownsyou wrote: As I said, everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their effort. You guys deserve 75% of your beef jerky though, not no sad 25%

Best of luck in this, I admire your optimism regarding this pushing towards quality rather than quantity, and I surely hope you're right.

TheEyelessWanderer wrote: I'm going to take care to specifically not purchase, download, endorse, or promote anything you create.

(I suggest everyone else takes the same course of action. This individual followed the gold scent. We all know where it inevitably leads.)

Ghatto wrote: This is what I was afraid of happening. It not like I don't think modders deserve any compensation, or that they can't value their work financially. It's the transformation, the necessary consideration of it that every modder will now have and how that makes them a different kind of artist and a completely different member of a now fractured mod community. Before now I'd never heard nor thought of a modder 'in it for the money', that any of their mods were being advertised like product; it was always just something they made that would improve the game and the community was reciprocative in those efforts. Now those same modders will filling their own artistic visions of their mods with thought about how much they deserve for it, something they never had to, or wanted to do while they were lovingly making mods for fun/enjoyment/challenge etc.

Everything was fine until now. Mods that were made, were made. Mods that weren't made, weren't. The community doesn't 'need' to give back, because they were never taking - modders were only ever giving, in a community of only ever giving.

WileCoyote68 wrote: Hi phenderix,
My native language/mother tongue is german and because of this fact my choosen game language is german. You say you will release the new Version of your mod only via Steam Workshop and Paid Content. Now one simple question to you: Will your mod being available as a multi-lingual version on the Workshoip? If not, then why the hell should a german, italian, french.... customer pay for it? I can understand that you have putted a lot of work in your creations, but going behind the pay wall should inlcude that you provide the same service as Bethesda did when they released Skyrim and the DLC's. If this is not a legitimate concern for you, then everything you said about your decision is only a lie. Then you care only about the money and nothing more

UnitedStrafes wrote: Never paid for a mod never will, not in Skyrim and not in Fallout 4, When I start making mods which I plan to do for Fallout It won't be because I'm expecting some compensation. Steam is full of bad ideas lately and is turning from something that was very cool into video game Wal-Mart sad really.

It's nice you spent so much time making your mod and I hope you do well, but anyone needing to be compensated for modding leads to me not needing that mod........EVER.

Draugas wrote: I'm not going to say whether or not I agree, I wish you luck.

But.

I do think you do yourself a diservice by choosing to do this *now*.

This is new, people are in an uproar, Valvthesda is exploiting modders with the percentage (opinion).

Are the potential repercussions worth putting your mod up on day two of the storm?

Silki08 wrote: Hi, I'm essentially someone genuinely trying to understand the shift. Things may be rough right now and I hope that through some of my questions you can alleviate some issues about modders going through the payment option on Steam Workshop. I'll try to organize this as best I can for your benefit.

1. To make a hobby into a career is a dream many people have in the world. However, being paid such a paltry amount for something that is essentially your design and creation seems like you are being taken advantage of. Has there been any negotiations on the part of mod authors to get a better share of the profits?

[in my opinion, for modders to be paid for putting comprehensive, functional, and revolutionary mods is a good thing. Being paid for it with something that seems even more extreme than indentured servitude seems wrong.]

2. Do you think this will effect modding for future games? Many gamers would feel that essential mods may one day be behind a paywall. For example, the new elder scrolls or fallout games may have a weak UI system. This prompts the SkyUI team to develop a better UI for the game. However this new UI mod will be behind a paywall from day one. Perhaps there is a framework that allows for mods to work in a cohesive form but must be bought to make a multitude of mods to work together. Is this acceptable in your opinion?

3. Many mods are a combined effort with those who have a distinct passion for their creation. How would the distribution of income be handled should their be assets from another mod that is free located within a mod that has been monetized?

4. How much of a cut do you think creators of these mods should have? If 25% is acceptable skip this question.

5. Many people feel that they are not actually supporting the mod authors by only having 25% of the commission go to the authors themselves. If more people donated from the start, would you have opted in this program?

6. In light of question 5. How many people actually have donated to you over your modding career?

7. How many hours have you spent on modding? This includes time spent on support, compatibility, and communication with the community.

8. In your opinion, is Valve and Bethesda doing this for the benefit of the modding community or for themselves?

9. In your opinion, should an item mod be the same price as an expansive mod? For comparisons sake, an armor mod vs a quest mod that includes: Armor, weapons, characters, buildings, locations, etc.

10. Some may argue that modding is for the community. That a group of individuals come together to make something that people with a common interest can enjoy. Do you think by going through this route, this is still possible? For example disagreements between collaborators may now increase because of this monetization option.

11. Multilingual support is usually done without the original authors help. Will multilingual support for all incredibly popular mods completely cease?

phenderix wrote: I genuinely think that this is a very good thing for the modding community.

More people will put in more time to creating better mods for Skyrim. I would gladly pay $5-10 for more mods like Falskar or Alternate Start.

I recently got a job in NYC financial district and have no where near as much time as I used to have to mod. This makes it a more compelling case to mod even when I don't have much free time anymore.

I will be using the premium version as a sort of kickstarter type campaign to fund more features added to the mod. I will be adding new worldspace and many new spells and features if people support the mod.

My mod doesn't simply add one item or do something very simple. It adds over 300 new spells to the game along with perks and other scripted features. All bug-free as of latest version. This is something I think people should want to purchase.

I understand the points a lot of you are making. I think that once this all settles that it will be an overall good thing. The 25% thing is a little ridiculous but I bet that this will eventually increase over time. I have no problem with Bethesda getting at least 50% since they created the game and creation kit to allow me to mod.

phantompally76 wrote: I can only disagree, emphatically. But that's not going to change your mind.

I won't be downloading, installing, or endorsing your mods anymore.

And frankly, that goes for anyone else that buys into this horsecrap. No matter how much you want to make yourselves believe that you're helping the modding community.....you're effectively killing it, and I REFUSE to be complicit in this betrayal.

phenderix wrote: Some very strong words. Thanks for the unendorse :)

CommanderJuraks wrote: The game creators and the file site "hosters" by far should be getting the larger portion of the cut, they literally made the game and are hosting/sharing your file(s) for download without them doing 80% of the leg work to make the mod possible in the first place there wouldn't even be a mod.

I personally don't like the concept of paying for something that was originally intended to be free and a hobby. Should the community be more gratuitous towards mod authors, absolutely but it shouldn't drive them(mod authors) to the point of hiding their works behind a pay-wall of any sort. Because let's face it, most mods aren't worth the money. While most of the mods in the "Top 100" lists here on the nexus are worth 1 dollar to 8 dollars that is just a fraction of a percent of the mods on the skyrim nexus alone that worth that bit of money. I'd rather be prompted to donate as thanks than be forced to pay for a retexture of someone else's work. My main fear with these new developments(paying for mods) is that almost every tom, dick, and harry mod maker will go hide behind a pay-wall even when the mod isn't even worth paying for.

That all being said, I appreciate modders and what they do my solution to this situation works something like this. Youtube video authors receive payment for how many views their videos get within a given period of time. The more "subscribers" they have the more almost guaranteed views they have. Why not work something out like that with the nexus?
Where if you endorse or give kudos to a specific author you get a notification every time that author uploads/updates a file. Mod authors would be payed on how many views or downloads their mods get in a given period of time(ex: a month or two weeks). The behind the scenes of how the pay would come out of the Nexus' total revenue could be worked out similarily to, again, how youtube does it. MEANING: I'd rather see mod authors paid in similar fashion to how youtube channel/video authors are being payed.

While the nexus may not like losing a bit of it's total profit this is a viable alternative to letting mod authors hide behind pay-walls whether the mod is worth the price or not.

I hope it works out for the best of the entire community and doesn't create a union of lazy people screaming for a handout or larger commission.

phantompally76 wrote: Oh, you're more than welcome, sir. Good day.

phenderix wrote: @CommanderJuraks
I completely agree with a lot of the points you listed.
That is why only one of my mods is making this transition.
The other 7 are remaining Nexus exclusives and forever free.

jet4571 wrote: Good luck seeing that happen.

A bit of advice for you, if you are not modding for your own game then releasing because others may enjoy it as well then you are doing it wrong. If your motivation is recognition and money then grab either the Unreal or Unity engine and make something you own and sell it. You will get the recognition if the game is good and make far more than the %25 Beth and Valve is offering.

I have been modding since Windows 95 was the latest OS and Win 98 was just around the corner, Had Paypal donations available since 2006 I think and not received one donation and during the mid 2000's I was making complete game overhauls that took a year or more to make without a proper SDK like the CK. As in Hex editor was an essential tool to get every 3D model working. Not a single donation for 4 years spending almost every free moment creating lists in a text editor and changing 3d Models in a hex editor. And you know what? Even if those were the top downloaded mods for the 3 games they were made for that's perfectly fine. Why? Because I did it for myself first. I have an unfinished game using the Unreal engine that I can work on but making it for a job just isn't as fun.

I hope you understand that I am offering advice on how to keep modding fun and still have a place for creating something for recognition and money and that none of this was an attack. I do feel you are modding for the wrong reasons and that's why the donations thing gets to you.

cplfernandez wrote: If people really believed in the donate option, wouldn't they be lining up to donat money to you in order to try to change your mind? Is that happening?

jfisha wrote: If you're giving some money to SkyUI for use of their MCM, don't forget to kickback some to SKSE, since the MCM relies on that

akkalat85 wrote: Hold it man, that's not cool. Not about you uploading the workshop, who cares... but about you using this nexus topic as a means to promote a 3rd party pay site. You advertising "future" features like that here is pretty shady.

Valve is giving you all the boost you need, but to come to a free site and self promote your paid product is just low.

phenderix wrote: @jet4571
Thanks for the comment. I think that is one reason I have decided to do this. I mainly mod for other people instead of myself. It is not really that exciting to use spells that you created.

@cplfernandez
Donation does not work, period. I have received one donation in almost 3 years of modding. People act like the system is fine, but never donate. Some other model needs to be implemented. If one were introduced I would definitely listen.

@akkalat85
Once again, this makes no sense. If my mod gets a purchase on the Steam Workshop the Skyrim Nexus will receive part of the revenue. Please research how the new system will work.

Impulseman45 wrote: I can understand putting allot of time into modding. I have put hundreds of hours into making meshes that are now on permanent hold because of possible theft by the creeps at the Steam Workshop. Anyone who has a mod and it gets put behind that pay-wall without their consent will never get it taken down. Vavle has all but said all mods are far game to steal the content from. So you are joining the side that is going to steal its way to power. Someone has already stolen and posted Soolies Real Clouds mod there today. And, do you realize that they own your mods from now on. Just look at what Chesko said about trying to take his mod down. They got what they wanted from him and that is what they will with you. Good luck. Your going to need it.

@phenderix: So far no one has brought fourth evidence for that claim. You will have to excuse my disbelief, but I don't believe things just because someone said so. If you have a link, please share it.

If a mod author lists the nexus as an influential figure in helping them in their modding hobby they can opt to list them, just as people have listed AFK mods (who also runs a free service), You could list google if you wanted too. Edited April 25, 2015 by akkalat85

[Jsmorris14]

http://imgur.com/Yad3W0r

[Impulseman45]

In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354, #24617394, #24617519, #24618004, #24618149, #24618159, #24618169, #24618264, #24618289, #24618509, #24618574, #24618634, #24619184, #24619264, #24619524, #24619749, #24619879, #24620069, #24620089, #24620334, #24620539, #24620654, #24620834, #24620854, #24620909, #24621039 are all replies on the same post.

phenderix wrote:

BluemaxDR wrote: I sincerely wish you good luck.

As for me, I'm going to take a break from modding Skyrim for a while. Well except for updating one because Raulfin is updating the combat system in his and I feel obliged to keep mine up to date.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Thank you and apart from questioning whether you feel it totally justified to advertise Steam Workshop on the Nexus, I would like to ask if you think you should get at least 75% of that $2.99.

To pay rent with.

Axeface wrote: Good luck phenderix. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing and it is an inevitable progression in gaming and modding, I havent used your mods because they dont suit me personally - but they suit a lot of people and have value. Please try to 'weather the storm' of rabid screaming masses on the forums until the storm clears. Maybe you could provide some kind of extra incentive to buy, while still offering the free option?

Cheers, good luck. Keep calm and keep modding :)

phenderix wrote: While the file is still pending review here is a list of features I intend to add using a goal system.

Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

BluemaxDR wrote:

Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

Like kickstarter....smart.

Turnstyles wrote: I wish you luck, though I am sorry to say that this may kill peoples trust in you as a modder. I make this in no ill way, but as a statement. This does not guarantee good mods at all, and incentivises theft of assets for profit. I hope you take this well.

Axeface wrote: @Turnstyles.
"Trust in him as a modder" - what does that even mean? Trust that you can take from him forever and never give anything back other than an optional 'endorsement' click?

OiramX5 wrote: I understand your position but dont agree with your vision, you will receive only a little value of money (most go to Valve and Bethesda), but it is your work and time, you do what wish (And Valve too now, she will be your "partner" and owner of your mod, just read about Cheskos said it).

I respect you decision and wish you good luck with this.

Shadowmane01 wrote: Well I respect your decision you have a hobby and see a chance to make a few quid out of it why not. People do that with other hobby's such as arts and crafts and so on. I was initially very upset about this mods for money thing but I'm calming down a bit now. I do have a question though will your workshop edition use the MCM if so what % of the $2.99 goes to them ?.

phenderix wrote: Thanks for the mostly positive comments so far guys. Magic Evolved does not contain any assets created by other modders. I will certainly never be stealing ideas or content from other mods just to make a profit. I have enough original ideas for new mods and improvements on existing mods. :)


MCM is getting a portion of pay. My mod barely uses it but it will receive a portion of proceeds nevertheless.

Silki08 wrote: They should be paying you guys more. Like for reals.

butthead123 wrote: Good luck with that though i wish it felt like my money was going to you rather than valve :(

Maruun wrote: I cant be angry about it i just hope it wont bite you later...

Yerevans wrote: In the college, regarding IT in business, we have discussions regarding strategies companies use to transfer costs and work to customers to profit more.
This is such strategy in place, Bethesda does not care anymore about Skyrim, they want free and easy money, as does Valve.

This will stimulate companies to release more broken and half finished games, not that the community will not only fix it to them for free, as they will actually profit more for people doing it.

That is not modding anymore, that is 3rd party DLC, outsourcing activities, reducing exposure and liability.

I would love to hear from you if you are actually getting any reasonable amount of money, most likely you will, but philosophically I despite this, as whenever people compete by finite resources things go ugly.

But I guess this is the real ugly truth of this era, where god was killed by reason and reason replaced by money, selfishness will always prevail upon altruism.
"Each to his own and God against all" this is the nature of the world and humanity.

Darkieus wrote: ...And unendorsed and uninstalled.

I don't like Workshop, and I don't like the idea of being forced to pay for a 'Mod' (which by this point is no longer a mod, but a DLC item).

I hope this system doesn't pass onto Fallout 4. Sorry.

Vault Tec wrote: I wish you luck in your endeavors as I'm one of the many refusing to 'buy' mods due to many reasons but I'd also like to mention, VALVe and Bethesda are getting 75% of that $3 you intend to charge. You aren't going to be earning much from your endeavors especially since it was discovered yesterday that a person can buy your mod, copy the files out of the Data folder and ask for a refund. They've got the mod for free at this point and you're out of pocket.

anonownsyou wrote: As I said, everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their effort. You guys deserve 75% of your beef jerky though, not no sad 25%

Best of luck in this, I admire your optimism regarding this pushing towards quality rather than quantity, and I surely hope you're right.

TheEyelessWanderer wrote: I'm going to take care to specifically not purchase, download, endorse, or promote anything you create.

(I suggest everyone else takes the same course of action. This individual followed the gold scent. We all know where it inevitably leads.)

Ghatto wrote: This is what I was afraid of happening. It not like I don't think modders deserve any compensation, or that they can't value their work financially. It's the transformation, the necessary consideration of it that every modder will now have and how that makes them a different kind of artist and a completely different member of a now fractured mod community. Before now I'd never heard nor thought of a modder 'in it for the money', that any of their mods were being advertised like product; it was always just something they made that would improve the game and the community was reciprocative in those efforts. Now those same modders will filling their own artistic visions of their mods with thought about how much they deserve for it, something they never had to, or wanted to do while they were lovingly making mods for fun/enjoyment/challenge etc.

Everything was fine until now. Mods that were made, were made. Mods that weren't made, weren't. The community doesn't 'need' to give back, because they were never taking - modders were only ever giving, in a community of only ever giving.

WileCoyote68 wrote: Hi phenderix,
My native language/mother tongue is german and because of this fact my choosen game language is german. You say you will release the new Version of your mod only via Steam Workshop and Paid Content. Now one simple question to you: Will your mod being available as a multi-lingual version on the Workshoip? If not, then why the hell should a german, italian, french.... customer pay for it? I can understand that you have putted a lot of work in your creations, but going behind the pay wall should inlcude that you provide the same service as Bethesda did when they released Skyrim and the DLC's. If this is not a legitimate concern for you, then everything you said about your decision is only a lie. Then you care only about the money and nothing more

UnitedStrafes wrote: Never paid for a mod never will, not in Skyrim and not in Fallout 4, When I start making mods which I plan to do for Fallout It won't be because I'm expecting some compensation. Steam is full of bad ideas lately and is turning from something that was very cool into video game Wal-Mart sad really.

It's nice you spent so much time making your mod and I hope you do well, but anyone needing to be compensated for modding leads to me not needing that mod........EVER.

Draugas wrote: I'm not going to say whether or not I agree, I wish you luck.

But.

I do think you do yourself a diservice by choosing to do this *now*.

This is new, people are in an uproar, Valvthesda is exploiting modders with the percentage (opinion).

Are the potential repercussions worth putting your mod up on day two of the storm?

Silki08 wrote: Hi, I'm essentially someone genuinely trying to understand the shift. Things may be rough right now and I hope that through some of my questions you can alleviate some issues about modders going through the payment option on Steam Workshop. I'll try to organize this as best I can for your benefit.

1. To make a hobby into a career is a dream many people have in the world. However, being paid such a paltry amount for something that is essentially your design and creation seems like you are being taken advantage of. Has there been any negotiations on the part of mod authors to get a better share of the profits?

[in my opinion, for modders to be paid for putting comprehensive, functional, and revolutionary mods is a good thing. Being paid for it with something that seems even more extreme than indentured servitude seems wrong.]

2. Do you think this will effect modding for future games? Many gamers would feel that essential mods may one day be behind a paywall. For example, the new elder scrolls or fallout games may have a weak UI system. This prompts the SkyUI team to develop a better UI for the game. However this new UI mod will be behind a paywall from day one. Perhaps there is a framework that allows for mods to work in a cohesive form but must be bought to make a multitude of mods to work together. Is this acceptable in your opinion?

3. Many mods are a combined effort with those who have a distinct passion for their creation. How would the distribution of income be handled should their be assets from another mod that is free located within a mod that has been monetized?

4. How much of a cut do you think creators of these mods should have? If 25% is acceptable skip this question.

5. Many people feel that they are not actually supporting the mod authors by only having 25% of the commission go to the authors themselves. If more people donated from the start, would you have opted in this program?

6. In light of question 5. How many people actually have donated to you over your modding career?

7. How many hours have you spent on modding? This includes time spent on support, compatibility, and communication with the community.

8. In your opinion, is Valve and Bethesda doing this for the benefit of the modding community or for themselves?

9. In your opinion, should an item mod be the same price as an expansive mod? For comparisons sake, an armor mod vs a quest mod that includes: Armor, weapons, characters, buildings, locations, etc.

10. Some may argue that modding is for the community. That a group of individuals come together to make something that people with a common interest can enjoy. Do you think by going through this route, this is still possible? For example disagreements between collaborators may now increase because of this monetization option.

11. Multilingual support is usually done without the original authors help. Will multilingual support for all incredibly popular mods completely cease?

phenderix wrote: I genuinely think that this is a very good thing for the modding community.

More people will put in more time to creating better mods for Skyrim. I would gladly pay $5-10 for more mods like Falskar or Alternate Start.

I recently got a job in NYC financial district and have no where near as much time as I used to have to mod. This makes it a more compelling case to mod even when I don't have much free time anymore.

I will be using the premium version as a sort of kickstarter type campaign to fund more features added to the mod. I will be adding new worldspace and many new spells and features if people support the mod.

My mod doesn't simply add one item or do something very simple. It adds over 300 new spells to the game along with perks and other scripted features. All bug-free as of latest version. This is something I think people should want to purchase.

I understand the points a lot of you are making. I think that once this all settles that it will be an overall good thing. The 25% thing is a little ridiculous but I bet that this will eventually increase over time. I have no problem with Bethesda getting at least 50% since they created the game and creation kit to allow me to mod.

phantompally76 wrote: I can only disagree, emphatically. But that's not going to change your mind.

I won't be downloading, installing, or endorsing your mods anymore.

And frankly, that goes for anyone else that buys into this horsecrap. No matter how much you want to make yourselves believe that you're helping the modding community.....you're effectively killing it, and I REFUSE to be complicit in this betrayal.

phenderix wrote: Some very strong words. Thanks for the unendorse :)

CommanderJuraks wrote: The game creators and the file site "hosters" by far should be getting the larger portion of the cut, they literally made the game and are hosting/sharing your file(s) for download without them doing 80% of the leg work to make the mod possible in the first place there wouldn't even be a mod.

I personally don't like the concept of paying for something that was originally intended to be free and a hobby. Should the community be more gratuitous towards mod authors, absolutely but it shouldn't drive them(mod authors) to the point of hiding their works behind a pay-wall of any sort. Because let's face it, most mods aren't worth the money. While most of the mods in the "Top 100" lists here on the nexus are worth 1 dollar to 8 dollars that is just a fraction of a percent of the mods on the skyrim nexus alone that worth that bit of money. I'd rather be prompted to donate as thanks than be forced to pay for a retexture of someone else's work. My main fear with these new developments(paying for mods) is that almost every tom, dick, and harry mod maker will go hide behind a pay-wall even when the mod isn't even worth paying for.

That all being said, I appreciate modders and what they do my solution to this situation works something like this. Youtube video authors receive payment for how many views their videos get within a given period of time. The more "subscribers" they have the more almost guaranteed views they have. Why not work something out like that with the nexus?
Where if you endorse or give kudos to a specific author you get a notification every time that author uploads/updates a file. Mod authors would be payed on how many views or downloads their mods get in a given period of time(ex: a month or two weeks). The behind the scenes of how the pay would come out of the Nexus' total revenue could be worked out similarily to, again, how youtube does it. MEANING: I'd rather see mod authors paid in similar fashion to how youtube channel/video authors are being payed.

While the nexus may not like losing a bit of it's total profit this is a viable alternative to letting mod authors hide behind pay-walls whether the mod is worth the price or not.

I hope it works out for the best of the entire community and doesn't create a union of lazy people screaming for a handout or larger commission.

phantompally76 wrote: Oh, you're more than welcome, sir. Good day.

phenderix wrote: @CommanderJuraks
I completely agree with a lot of the points you listed.
That is why only one of my mods is making this transition.
The other 7 are remaining Nexus exclusives and forever free.

jet4571 wrote: Good luck seeing that happen.

A bit of advice for you, if you are not modding for your own game then releasing because others may enjoy it as well then you are doing it wrong. If your motivation is recognition and money then grab either the Unreal or Unity engine and make something you own and sell it. You will get the recognition if the game is good and make far more than the %25 Beth and Valve is offering.

I have been modding since Windows 95 was the latest OS and Win 98 was just around the corner, Had Paypal donations available since 2006 I think and not received one donation and during the mid 2000's I was making complete game overhauls that took a year or more to make without a proper SDK like the CK. As in Hex editor was an essential tool to get every 3D model working. Not a single donation for 4 years spending almost every free moment creating lists in a text editor and changing 3d Models in a hex editor. And you know what? Even if those were the top downloaded mods for the 3 games they were made for that's perfectly fine. Why? Because I did it for myself first. I have an unfinished game using the Unreal engine that I can work on but making it for a job just isn't as fun.

I hope you understand that I am offering advice on how to keep modding fun and still have a place for creating something for recognition and money and that none of this was an attack. I do feel you are modding for the wrong reasons and that's why the donations thing gets to you.

cplfernandez wrote: If people really believed in the donate option, wouldn't they be lining up to donat money to you in order to try to change your mind? Is that happening?

jfisha wrote: If you're giving some money to SkyUI for use of their MCM, don't forget to kickback some to SKSE, since the MCM relies on that

akkalat85 wrote: Hold it man. That's just not cool. Not about you uploading the workshop, who cares... but about you using this nexus topic as a means to promote a 3rd party pay site. You advertising "future" features like that here is pretty shady. Valve is giving you all the boost you need, but to come to a free site and promote a paid product... that's just unethical.

It's like those porno videos where the clip ends right after the interview.

phenderix wrote: @jet4571
Thanks for the comment. I think that is one reason I have decided to do this. I mainly mod for other people instead of myself. It is not really that exciting to use spells that you created.

@cplfernandez
Donation does not work, period. I have received one donation in almost 3 years of modding. People act like the system is fine, but never donate. Some other model needs to be implemented. If one were introduced I would definitely listen.

@akkalat85
Once again, this makes no sense. If my mod gets a purchase on the Steam Workshop the Skyrim Nexus will receive part of the revenue. Please research how the new system will work.

akkalat85 wrote: So far no one has brought fourth evidence for that claim. If you have a link, please share it.

The only thing that would make me happier than being right, is being wrong.

I can understand putting allot of time into modding. I have put hundreds of hours into making meshes that are now on permanent hold because of possible theft by the creeps at the Steam Workshop. Anyone who has a mod and it gets put behind that pay-wall without their consent will never get it taken down. Vavle has all but said all mods are far game to steal the content from. So you are joining the side that is going to steal its way to power. Someone has already stolen and posted Soolies Real Clouds mod there today. And, do you realize that they own your mods from now on. Just look at what Chesko said about trying to take his mod down. They got what they wanted from him and that is what they will with you. Good luck. Your going to need it. Edited April 25, 2015 by Impulseman45

[TheBillSupremacy]

My opinion: if you weren't going to take up modding before you got paid, then you shouldn't have considered it in the first place. Valve has stepped in, out of nowhere, and tried to take control of what was once (two days ago) a civil, niche community, sharing files and having fun. Don't let greed blind you.

 

Also, bugger to what TotalBiscuit says. He has some real cheek to compare the work he does as a YouTuber to the effort a modder has to put in. Modders are much more deserving of some compensation for their efforts, despite the fact that neither activity (video making and modding) should be anything more than pastimes. In the world we live in, however, where YouTubers can make easy money from sponsorship and ad revenue, it boils my blood to see him imply that making a twenty-minute 'first impressions' video is somehow as complicated and as involved as making a full blown modification to a game.

[fftfan]

"Users can not use my assets in any mods/files that are being sold, for money, on Steam Workshop or other platforms" This box is ticked by default.

 

Thank you very much!! If I ever upload files here, my one main demand is that the assets never be stolen for someone else's paid mod.

[GanonDarkLord]

In response to post #24597829. #24598674, #24599279, #24599624 are all replies on the same post.

anarkywolf wrote:

Shadow_Dragyn wrote: They are not viable. The number of people who actually donate anything to any mod is literally several decimal places beneath a fraction of a percent. Some people are trying to put up crappy or stolen mods for a fee out of greed, but that isn't the norm.
The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy.
People do not donate, and that's why something like this is necessary to help support modding and let it grow.
Finances have been the main thing keeping me from being able to mod as much as I would like, and I'm not the only person who has been facing that kind of issue.
How many times have you seen someone release a quality outfit that was not made of recycled parts? Hardly ever, because once someone has enough skill to actually do something like that, they'd be better off creating it for someone else's game, or even their own game, and getting paid for it.
Even Faalskar was created simply because the author was confident that he could land a job off of it. No one could justify devoting that kind of time and energy without getting anything back from it.
A "hobby" is not something everyone has the luxury of spending much time on, especially in cases like this when you already clearly have the hobby of playing video games and this would directly eat into that.

BattlemasterRiin wrote: @Shadow

No, the greedy ones are those that EXPECT compensation. I for one, will never, EVER buy a mod off Steam. I will however, donate to authors I feel deserve it. Do you think those that refuse to donate are going to instead BUY the mod? hah! If anything, it's only hurting the Modders, those would would normally donate now will not, if the Mod is up for sale on the Workshop.

Shadow_Dragyn wrote: I think you're missing the point. If no one buys a single mod, it's all the same regardless.
I would really like to know who, if anyone, you have ever actually donated to.
This isn't stopping anyone from donating, because they never donated in the first place. Modders are not the monsters here. It's the people who have never given anything back to the community demonizing the people who actually do.
If you truly have donated to anyone, then good on you. But the number of people who really have is astronomically small.
Particularly in contrast to the massive wave of people crying foul about this.

I actually just found out about the donations bit of the nexus today (never took the time to look at the creators profiles in detail) and donated to my top 4 favorites. As the month goes on I'll donate to the rest of creators of the mods I use.

[Anataron]

I had planned to Keep myself out of this mess of an Ordeal entirely. But I simply can't. To voice my thoughts at this Moment in time; with the knowledge I posses and the rather lacking grasp I have of the world a Modder works in; I will make this comment here. Take it as it is: Feedback of a concerned Mod user; and fan of Skyrim and mods for Skyrim.

 

As the Point has been made at least once; that modding is a form of Artwork; that is compareable to any other hobby-craft like making Jewelry; painting; any Kind of those Artworks. Yes. In a sense it is. It is Creative Artwork. With one; to my knowledge; Major difference. As of now I can not Name a single tool or ressource NEEDED for modding a Game like Skyrim that is not available as a sort of Freeware. Not one.

 

If a Modder decides to use advanced Tools to ensure Quality of his Mods that are pay to use it is up to that Modder as an Individual to make that Decision. But as a General Rule for most you do not spend anything aside from Time making a Mod. Period. Even if you feel compelled to make a certain Mod or fix an existing one with your knowledge and ideas concerning that matter it is up to you which Tools you use.

 

So comparing Modding to any other form of "semi-professional" - aka Hobby-Artwork is lacking; in my honest opinion. Because be it making Paintings; Pottery; Jewelry; Photography or anything I can think of as of now you do NEED Tools and Ressources that are not freely available. So you do spend Money to even being able to do what you want to do. And that is not the Case for a Modder. Yes; you did spend Money to buy the Game; but so did the Users of your Mods.

If you decide to opt for advanced methods and Tools that is your decision. That is a Point where you decide that for you personally Quality of your Mod is above considering that a tool might have a prize tag. That renting a Recording Studio for better Voice Acting has a prize tag. You make that decision out of compasion; not out of necessity. And that is not the case with other Artforms; in most cases. So I personally think that comparison is lacking - at best.

 

So in a sense and to my understanding of the matter all you do with adding a Prize-Tag to your Mods is making people spend Money on something you generated while only being "forced" to use your time. Nothing else. If you decide to use your Money to create a mod that is your decision; not something you Need to do.

 

Another Point I have a Problem with is the Comparison to Youtube; or rather the Suggestion to make a similar System to the Revenue for Youtube. You can make a great Overhaul Mod of the Gameplay without spending a single <add your local currency> for it; which in result would grant you add-revenues under a System similar to Youtube. For basically spending Time doing it. While a Youtuber has to spend the same amount of Time; if not more; for his Videos. But on top of that those Guys have to buy decent Computers; because nobody would watch a lag-Frame by Frame Video of Gameplay or Reviews; or bad Quality Videos. The same goes for Audio and editing Equipment. A Video with High Video Quality but crappy Editing and Audio Quality won't get any Kind of Views. My opinion; take it as it is. So once more a Youtuber has to put Money up front into it to even start it; which in turn doesn't gurantee sucess. While the Argument could be made that a Modder does Need a decent Computer aswell to make Mods. Well; the same applies to the Mod user.

As without a decent Computer many Mods won't work well for your System because they just eat up to much ressoures due to their high Quality.

 

And as a last Point something more General. In the Case of Skyrim; so a Pay to Play Game to begin with; anybody able to Play the game "legaly" has already paid for the game. Period. The same amount for everybody; give or take; taking into account sales of DLC Content and Bundles of the Game.

So there has already been Money involved. While it might not be a Problem for Many to Pay more for some Mods they really want it is a Problem for Others. They did spend a large Portion of their Liquid Money for the Computer to handle the Game; and another smaller Portion to even get the Game.

To then add a pay or don't get mods barricade is just wrong; in my opinion. Especially with the supposedly large Cut going to Valve/Beth. They already had their share of the Game; they sold it on the market; making most likely more then they did spend on it. Not sure about that; just my Feeling.

 

I can understand this whole System for a Free to Play Game to begin with. There the Developer and Publisher puts all their Cards on the Game; and if they then can get some back through user-created Content that is fine for me. But basically the System as it is now on the Workshop reads to me like double charging for a Game. And that in itself just sounds wrong. And not to speak of the amount of cash somebody would have to spend to get the same amount of Mods running under such a System as before. While for some a few mods are more than enough others tend to mod the living hell out of their Game. And even if each of those mods would only be 1 <add your currency here>; it still would easily add up to an amount of 100++ .. which is in my honest opinion a tiny bit besides the Point; especially for Sykrim where the User already paid 60++ for the Game and Official DLC Content.

 

As a closing word. I do not blame Mod Authors going for the Chance to earn something for the work they spend while doing something they enjoy. There is nothing wrong doing that. And I think I will still Support Mod Authors to the best of my abilities. I just will not have the Option to enjoy Skyrim the way I did before. Or any new released Game following the same Patterns as it has now been implemented for Skyrim. Simply because I personally can't justify spending "double-Money" on a game to make it work the way I would prefer. Call it selfish; call it greedy on my End. But as a Result of all this I might have to think not twice but more often about buying a Mod-able Game if I end up being forced to pay for the "best" mods for said game; Mods that add a large amount of replayability to a game that otherwise would have been good; but not Holding it's own for so Long.

 

Sad that it had to come to such a hatestorm over the past couple of hours and I just hope the current System will be revised. I don't demand Mod Authors to not take Advantage of this Chance. I honestly think some should recieve Money for their Work. Some should be paid for all the benefits they add to a game. But on a "can" Basis that works; and not a "have to" Basis like the current System. And if the Feedback and donations they recieve isn't enough in their Eyes. I honestly think there is always the Chance to say "that's it. It was fun as Long as it lasted; but in this climate I can't see me doing any more for the Mods I released" - or even going so far to pull their work and quit modding; going for a career path with the experience they collected on the way.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong; hate me for what I said. But as it is this not supposed to be a hateful comment; but just concerned thoughts about the matter. Thanks for reading this monstrosity of a post.