Quick updates to the site, money money money edition

[WightMage]

In response to post #24632199. #24632329, #24632479, #24632749 are all replies on the same post.

jerff wrote:

ricxardo wrote: But, Witcher 3 won't have dedicated mod-support, right? Not from what I've read. Yes, Witcher 2 has mods, but not to the extent that TES has. Correct me if I'm wrong.

chairmanxyz wrote: Witcher 2 came out with RedKit which is similar to the Creation Kit. It's likely that given the open-minded attitude of CDProjektRed and the fact they had this tool in the past, that they're likely to release something similar for the Witcher 3. They've said in the past that they are thrilled by the modding scene and very interested in seeing what the community can come up with. There's even a mod on the Nexus for Witcher 2 that was made by someone from the dev team which tweaks combat.

jerff wrote: Witcher 3 will have dedicated mod support, the devs confirmed long ago that the modkit is coming, look here:
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/30086-The-Witcher-3-Modding?p=1410192#post1410192

Witcher 2 had modding tools, but they were released too late, like 2 years after the release of the game, and didn't get much attention because of that.

In the Witcher 3 case devs promised that they will release modding tools much, much faster.

Also Witcher 2 wasn't open world, and Witcher 3 is open world (larger than Skyrim), and we see that mostly just the open world games have huge modding communities.

inb4 Witcher 3 becomes the new de facto Mod haven and Skyrim goes the way of Oblivion.

[Shadanwolf]

In response to post #24632199. #24632329, #24632479, #24632749, #24632844 are all replies on the same post.

jerff wrote:

ricxardo wrote: But, Witcher 3 won't have dedicated mod-support, right? Not from what I've read. Yes, Witcher 2 has mods, but not to the extent that TES has. Correct me if I'm wrong.

chairmanxyz wrote: Witcher 2 came out with RedKit which is similar to the Creation Kit. It's likely that given the open-minded attitude of CDProjektRed and the fact they had this tool in the past, that they're likely to release something similar for the Witcher 3. They've said in the past that they are thrilled by the modding scene and very interested in seeing what the community can come up with. There's even a mod on the Nexus for Witcher 2 that was made by someone from the dev team which tweaks combat.

jerff wrote: Witcher 3 will have dedicated mod support, the devs confirmed long ago that the modkit is coming, look here:
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/30086-The-Witcher-3-Modding?p=1410192#post1410192

Witcher 2 had modding tools, but they were released too late, like 2 years after the release of the game, and didn't get much attention because of that.

In the Witcher 3 case devs promised that they will release modding tools much, much faster.

Also Witcher 2 wasn't open world, and Witcher 3 is open world (larger than Skyrim), and we see that mostly just the open world games have huge modding communities.

WightMage wrote: inb4 Witcher 3 becomes the new de facto Mod haven and Skyrim goes the way of Oblivion.

Excellent ideas !
Skyrim has run its course. Moving onto to THE WITCHER 3 would seem to address much of what Bethesda/STEAM is trying to do,and offers W3,and the mods that could be made, a tremendous opportunity. Edited April 25, 2015 by Shadanwolf

[bigdeano89]

In response to post #24616159. #24616314, #24616399, #24616454, #24616704, #24616799, #24616909, #24617019, #24617144, #24617304, #24617354, #24617394, #24617519, #24618004, #24618149, #24618159, #24618169, #24618264, #24618289, #24618509, #24618574, #24618634, #24619184, #24619264, #24619524, #24619749, #24619879, #24620069, #24620089, #24620334, #24620539, #24620654, #24620834, #24620854, #24620909, #24621039, #24621124, #24621969, #24622244, #24622359, #24622569, #24622584, #24622724, #24623239, #24623394, #24623524, #24623554, #24623839, #24623994, #24624269, #24624324, #24624394 are all replies on the same post.

phenderix wrote:

BluemaxDR wrote: I sincerely wish you good luck.

As for me, I'm going to take a break from modding Skyrim for a while. Well except for updating one because Raulfin is updating the combat system in his and I feel obliged to keep mine up to date.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Thank you and apart from questioning whether you feel it totally justified to advertise Steam Workshop on the Nexus, I would like to ask if you think you should get at least 75% of that $2.99.

To pay rent with.

Axeface wrote: Good luck phenderix. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing and it is an inevitable progression in gaming and modding, I havent used your mods because they dont suit me personally - but they suit a lot of people and have value. Please try to 'weather the storm' of rabid screaming masses on the forums until the storm clears. Maybe you could provide some kind of extra incentive to buy, while still offering the free option?

Cheers, good luck. Keep calm and keep modding :)

phenderix wrote: While the file is still pending review here is a list of features I intend to add using a goal system.

Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

BluemaxDR wrote:

Every $200 - New spells will be added or an existing archetype will be significantly modified and improved.
$500 - new companion NPCs that use spells added by this mod.
$1000 - new worldspace containing many things to do regarding this mod. (Town, vendors, shops, npcs, new world)
If goals met, new goals will be added.

Like kickstarter....smart.

Turnstyles wrote: I wish you luck, though I am sorry to say that this may kill peoples trust in you as a modder. I make this in no ill way, but as a statement. This does not guarantee good mods at all, and incentivises theft of assets for profit. I hope you take this well.

Axeface wrote: @Turnstyles.
"Trust in him as a modder" - what does that even mean? Trust that you can take from him forever and never give anything back other than an optional 'endorsement' click?

OiramX5 wrote: I understand your position but dont agree with your vision, you will receive only a little value of money (most go to Valve and Bethesda), but it is your work and time, you do what wish (And Valve too now, she will be your "partner" and owner of your mod, just read about Cheskos said it).

I respect you decision and wish you good luck with this.

Shadowmane01 wrote: Well I respect your decision you have a hobby and see a chance to make a few quid out of it why not. People do that with other hobby's such as arts and crafts and so on. I was initially very upset about this mods for money thing but I'm calming down a bit now. I do have a question though will your workshop edition use the MCM if so what % of the $2.99 goes to them ?.

phenderix wrote: Thanks for the mostly positive comments so far guys. Magic Evolved does not contain any assets created by other modders. I will certainly never be stealing ideas or content from other mods just to make a profit. I have enough original ideas for new mods and improvements on existing mods. :)


MCM is getting a portion of pay. My mod barely uses it but it will receive a portion of proceeds nevertheless.

Silki08 wrote: They should be paying you guys more. Like for reals.

butthead123 wrote: Good luck with that though i wish it felt like my money was going to you rather than valve :(

Maruun wrote: I cant be angry about it i just hope it wont bite you later...

Yerevans wrote: In the college, regarding IT in business, we have discussions regarding strategies companies use to transfer costs and work to customers to profit more.
This is such strategy in place, Bethesda does not care anymore about Skyrim, they want free and easy money, as does Valve.

This will stimulate companies to release more broken and half finished games, not that the community will not only fix it to them for free, as they will actually profit more for people doing it.

That is not modding anymore, that is 3rd party DLC, outsourcing activities, reducing exposure and liability.

I would love to hear from you if you are actually getting any reasonable amount of money, most likely you will, but philosophically I despite this, as whenever people compete by finite resources things go ugly.

But I guess this is the real ugly truth of this era, where god was killed by reason and reason replaced by money, selfishness will always prevail upon altruism.
"Each to his own and God against all" this is the nature of the world and humanity.

Darkieus wrote: ...And unendorsed and uninstalled.

I don't like Workshop, and I don't like the idea of being forced to pay for a 'Mod' (which by this point is no longer a mod, but a DLC item).

I hope this system doesn't pass onto Fallout 4. Sorry.

Vault Tec wrote: I wish you luck in your endeavors as I'm one of the many refusing to 'buy' mods due to many reasons but I'd also like to mention, VALVe and Bethesda are getting 75% of that $3 you intend to charge. You aren't going to be earning much from your endeavors especially since it was discovered yesterday that a person can buy your mod, copy the files out of the Data folder and ask for a refund. They've got the mod for free at this point and you're out of pocket.

anonownsyou wrote: As I said, everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their effort. You guys deserve 75% of your beef jerky though, not no sad 25%

Best of luck in this, I admire your optimism regarding this pushing towards quality rather than quantity, and I surely hope you're right.

TheEyelessWanderer wrote: I'm going to take care to specifically not purchase, download, endorse, or promote anything you create.

(I suggest everyone else takes the same course of action. This individual followed the gold scent. We all know where it inevitably leads.)

Ghatto wrote: This is what I was afraid of happening. It not like I don't think modders deserve any compensation, or that they can't value their work financially. It's the transformation, the necessary consideration of it that every modder will now have and how that makes them a different kind of artist and a completely different member of a now fractured mod community. Before now I'd never heard nor thought of a modder 'in it for the money', that any of their mods were being advertised like product; it was always just something they made that would improve the game and the community was reciprocative in those efforts. Now those same modders will filling their own artistic visions of their mods with thought about how much they deserve for it, something they never had to, or wanted to do while they were lovingly making mods for fun/enjoyment/challenge etc.

Everything was fine until now. Mods that were made, were made. Mods that weren't made, weren't. The community doesn't 'need' to give back, because they were never taking - modders were only ever giving, in a community of only ever giving.

WileCoyote68 wrote: Hi phenderix,
My native language/mother tongue is german and because of this fact my choosen game language is german. You say you will release the new Version of your mod only via Steam Workshop and Paid Content. Now one simple question to you: Will your mod being available as a multi-lingual version on the Workshoip? If not, then why the hell should a german, italian, french.... customer pay for it? I can understand that you have putted a lot of work in your creations, but going behind the pay wall should inlcude that you provide the same service as Bethesda did when they released Skyrim and the DLC's. If this is not a legitimate concern for you, then everything you said about your decision is only a lie. Then you care only about the money and nothing more

UnitedStrafes wrote: Never paid for a mod never will, not in Skyrim and not in Fallout 4, When I start making mods which I plan to do for Fallout It won't be because I'm expecting some compensation. Steam is full of bad ideas lately and is turning from something that was very cool into video game Wal-Mart sad really.

It's nice you spent so much time making your mod and I hope you do well, but anyone needing to be compensated for modding leads to me not needing that mod........EVER.

Draugas wrote: I'm not going to say whether or not I agree, I wish you luck.

But.

I do think you do yourself a diservice by choosing to do this *now*.

This is new, people are in an uproar, Valvthesda is exploiting modders with the percentage (opinion).

Are the potential repercussions worth putting your mod up on day two of the storm?

Silki08 wrote: Hi, I'm essentially someone genuinely trying to understand the shift. Things may be rough right now and I hope that through some of my questions you can alleviate some issues about modders going through the payment option on Steam Workshop. I'll try to organize this as best I can for your benefit.

1. To make a hobby into a career is a dream many people have in the world. However, being paid such a paltry amount for something that is essentially your design and creation seems like you are being taken advantage of. Has there been any negotiations on the part of mod authors to get a better share of the profits?

[in my opinion, for modders to be paid for putting comprehensive, functional, and revolutionary mods is a good thing. Being paid for it with something that seems even more extreme than indentured servitude seems wrong.]

2. Do you think this will effect modding for future games? Many gamers would feel that essential mods may one day be behind a paywall. For example, the new elder scrolls or fallout games may have a weak UI system. This prompts the SkyUI team to develop a better UI for the game. However this new UI mod will be behind a paywall from day one. Perhaps there is a framework that allows for mods to work in a cohesive form but must be bought to make a multitude of mods to work together. Is this acceptable in your opinion?

3. Many mods are a combined effort with those who have a distinct passion for their creation. How would the distribution of income be handled should their be assets from another mod that is free located within a mod that has been monetized?

4. How much of a cut do you think creators of these mods should have? If 25% is acceptable skip this question.

5. Many people feel that they are not actually supporting the mod authors by only having 25% of the commission go to the authors themselves. If more people donated from the start, would you have opted in this program?

6. In light of question 5. How many people actually have donated to you over your modding career?

7. How many hours have you spent on modding? This includes time spent on support, compatibility, and communication with the community.

8. In your opinion, is Valve and Bethesda doing this for the benefit of the modding community or for themselves?

9. In your opinion, should an item mod be the same price as an expansive mod? For comparisons sake, an armor mod vs a quest mod that includes: Armor, weapons, characters, buildings, locations, etc.

10. Some may argue that modding is for the community. That a group of individuals come together to make something that people with a common interest can enjoy. Do you think by going through this route, this is still possible? For example disagreements between collaborators may now increase because of this monetization option.

11. Multilingual support is usually done without the original authors help. Will multilingual support for all incredibly popular mods completely cease?

phenderix wrote: I genuinely think that this is a very good thing for the modding community.

More people will put in more time to creating better mods for Skyrim. I would gladly pay $5-10 for more mods like Falskar or Alternate Start.

I recently got a job in NYC financial district and have no where near as much time as I used to have to mod. This makes it a more compelling case to mod even when I don't have much free time anymore.

I will be using the premium version as a sort of kickstarter type campaign to fund more features added to the mod. I will be adding new worldspace and many new spells and features if people support the mod.

My mod doesn't simply add one item or do something very simple. It adds over 300 new spells to the game along with perks and other scripted features. All bug-free as of latest version. This is something I think people should want to purchase.

I understand the points a lot of you are making. I think that once this all settles that it will be an overall good thing. The 25% thing is a little ridiculous but I bet that this will eventually increase over time. I have no problem with Bethesda getting at least 50% since they created the game and creation kit to allow me to mod.

phantompally76 wrote: I can only disagree, emphatically. But that's not going to change your mind.

I won't be downloading, installing, or endorsing your mods anymore.

And frankly, that goes for anyone else that buys into this horsecrap. No matter how much you want to make yourselves believe that you're helping the modding community.....you're effectively killing it, and I REFUSE to be complicit in this betrayal.

phenderix wrote: Some very strong words. Thanks for the unendorse :)

CommanderJuraks wrote: The game creators and the file site "hosters" by far should be getting the larger portion of the cut, they literally made the game and are hosting/sharing your file(s) for download without them doing 80% of the leg work to make the mod possible in the first place there wouldn't even be a mod.

I personally don't like the concept of paying for something that was originally intended to be free and a hobby. Should the community be more gratuitous towards mod authors, absolutely but it shouldn't drive them(mod authors) to the point of hiding their works behind a pay-wall of any sort. Because let's face it, most mods aren't worth the money. While most of the mods in the "Top 100" lists here on the nexus are worth 1 dollar to 8 dollars that is just a fraction of a percent of the mods on the skyrim nexus alone that worth that bit of money. I'd rather be prompted to donate as thanks than be forced to pay for a retexture of someone else's work. My main fear with these new developments(paying for mods) is that almost every tom, dick, and harry mod maker will go hide behind a pay-wall even when the mod isn't even worth paying for.

That all being said, I appreciate modders and what they do my solution to this situation works something like this. Youtube video authors receive payment for how many views their videos get within a given period of time. The more "subscribers" they have the more almost guaranteed views they have. Why not work something out like that with the nexus?
Where if you endorse or give kudos to a specific author you get a notification every time that author uploads/updates a file. Mod authors would be payed on how many views or downloads their mods get in a given period of time(ex: a month or two weeks). The behind the scenes of how the pay would come out of the Nexus' total revenue could be worked out similarily to, again, how youtube does it. MEANING: I'd rather see mod authors paid in similar fashion to how youtube channel/video authors are being payed.

While the nexus may not like losing a bit of it's total profit this is a viable alternative to letting mod authors hide behind pay-walls whether the mod is worth the price or not.

I hope it works out for the best of the entire community and doesn't create a union of lazy people screaming for a handout or larger commission.

phantompally76 wrote: Oh, you're more than welcome, sir. Good day.

phenderix wrote: @CommanderJuraks
I completely agree with a lot of the points you listed.
That is why only one of my mods is making this transition.
The other 7 are remaining Nexus exclusives and forever free.

jet4571 wrote: Good luck seeing that happen.

A bit of advice for you, if you are not modding for your own game then releasing because others may enjoy it as well then you are doing it wrong. If your motivation is recognition and money then grab either the Unreal or Unity engine and make something you own and sell it. You will get the recognition if the game is good and make far more than the %25 Beth and Valve is offering.

I have been modding since Windows 95 was the latest OS and Win 98 was just around the corner, Had Paypal donations available since 2006 I think and not received one donation and during the mid 2000's I was making complete game overhauls that took a year or more to make without a proper SDK like the CK. As in Hex editor was an essential tool to get every 3D model working. Not a single donation for 4 years spending almost every free moment creating lists in a text editor and changing 3d Models in a hex editor. And you know what? Even if those were the top downloaded mods for the 3 games they were made for that's perfectly fine. Why? Because I did it for myself first. I have an unfinished game using the Unreal engine that I can work on but making it for a job just isn't as fun.

I hope you understand that I am offering advice on how to keep modding fun and still have a place for creating something for recognition and money and that none of this was an attack. I do feel you are modding for the wrong reasons and that's why the donations thing gets to you.

cplfernandez wrote: If people really believed in the donate option, wouldn't they be lining up to donat money to you in order to try to change your mind? Is that happening?

jfisha wrote: If you're giving some money to SkyUI for use of their MCM, don't forget to kickback some to SKSE, since the MCM relies on that

akkalat85 wrote: Hold it man, that's not cool. Not about you uploading the workshop, who cares... but about you using this nexus topic as a means to promote a 3rd party pay site. You advertising "future" features like that here is pretty shady.

Valve is giving you all the boost you need, but to come to a free site and self promote your paid product is just low.

phenderix wrote: @jet4571
Thanks for the comment. I think that is one reason I have decided to do this. I mainly mod for other people instead of myself. It is not really that exciting to use spells that you created.

@cplfernandez
Donation does not work, period. I have received one donation in almost 3 years of modding. People act like the system is fine, but never donate. Some other model needs to be implemented. If one were introduced I would definitely listen.

@akkalat85
Once again, this makes no sense. If my mod gets a purchase on the Steam Workshop the Skyrim Nexus will receive part of the revenue. Please research how the new system will work.

akkalat85 wrote: @phenderix: So far no one has brought fourth evidence for that claim. You will have to excuse my disbelief, but I don't believe things just because someone said so. If you have a link, please share it.

If a mod author lists the nexus as an influential figure in helping them in their modding hobby they can opt to list them, just as people have listed AFK mods (who also runs a free service), You could list google if you wanted too.

Impulseman45 wrote: I can understand putting allot of time into modding. I have put hundreds of hours into making meshes that are now on permanent hold because of possible theft by the creeps at the Steam Workshop. Anyone who has a mod and it gets put behind that pay-wall without their consent will never get it taken down. Vavle has all but said all mods are far game to steal the content from. So you are joining the side that is going to steal its way to power. Someone has already stolen and posted Soolies Real Clouds mod there today. And, do you realize that they own your mods from now on. Just look at what Chesko said about trying to take his mod down. They got what they wanted from him and that is what they will with you. Good luck. Your going to need it.

phenderix wrote: After getting over 50 comments and messages and many respectful responses I have changed my mind and will keep all of my mods free and Nexus exclusive. I trust Nexus staff to have a good solution to this problem.

JohnnyH1982 wrote: welp, good luck to you. I just unsubscribed from all Steam Workshop mods from all games supported and I don't plan on going back. I respect your hustle, but I don't agree at all with Valves implementation. And I do say best of luck, with good intentions, I am not being snarky or disingenuous.
Ciao

Impulseman45 wrote: Bravo, I hope my comment had a little input on things, but everyone should be thrilled that you made this change of heart. I only hope other modders do the same. Here is crossing finger and toes.

WightMage wrote: Seriously?

As in, no sarcasm intended?

Then, I am glad you were able to see reason, friend. And besides, even if you do want to eventually be paid for your work, now is the worst possible time.

It would be like studying abroad in a country during a civil war.

mrinanis wrote: imho if you want to be paid for a mod you shoule asking for donations.

if you want a real s mod then you should ork in the gaming industry and NOT make mods... but DLCs

akkalat85 wrote: Wight is absolutely correct. The community is throwing labels and slurs like my ex throws babies. Now is not a great time to add anyone's name to the workshop.

Your unexpected change of heart is not only shocking, but is inspiring. Here, have a kudos.

So far I've speculated on some of the issues mod authors would soon be facing after joining hands with Valve...

For example what would happen if a mod author releases a paid mod on workshop and then let's say he/she gets banned from Steam. Because Valve now owns your property, a consequence of this could be legal ramification if you then at some point uploaded an updated version to the nexus, or any site for that matter. Even though the creative mind was you, you technically don't own your own mod any longer and if Valve wanted to get nasty they could send you desist letters.

Or in the case of Fores, his animations will forever be uploaded to the workshop against his will. Anyone that purchased Chesko's fishing mod will forever have access to Fore's animation even though Fore will never see a penny. What's worse, what's to stop one of users with that file from then using those animations in their own personal mod. The expectations that we are going to police ourselves is ludicrous.

WightMage wrote: Though to be fair, don't the terms of using CK state that whatever we create belongs to Bethesda by default? I was a bit confused (but, sadly, not surprised by) Chesko's reaction when Valve Legal refused to let him take Arissa 2.0 off the workshop, though he claimed it was 100% his.

My impression was that ultimately, he and Griefmyst only really owned the voice files- everything else was made using programs that they signed EULA's for.

akkalat85 wrote: Yes that's most likely correct. In the past great mods like "Weapon Mod Kits" have been an inspiration for future game systems Bethesda creates. A user most likely cannot try to engage in a legal dispute due to this very reason.

I remember when "Build Your Own Home" was released. A couple months later Bethesda released "Hearthfire". It could be odd timing, but it's no secret Bethesda has used the modding community in the past for bright ideas to capitalize on. In the case of Antistar's WMK mod, they openly thanked him for the idea and Antistar viewed is as a recognition of his accolades and good publicity in the professional world.

I would personally be flattered as well. It depends on how you look at it. Of course, Bethesda doesn't do a carbon copy. They rewrite the entire system in house, but the ideas come from this site. It's pretty much impossible to lay claim to an idea though so whether Bethesda owns our esps or not I doubt it matters in the long run.

cTuck88 wrote: I applaud you in doing this. Not because I feel the users have a right to free mods, nor because I feel modders are getting greedy and jumping at Valve/Bethesda's doggy treat offer of 25%, but because you had a moment of clarity in this virtual s#*!-storm (pardon my French.)

It is too early to be picking one side or the other in this debate. People had already chosen sides before this became official, and now Valve has simply opened the gates and released the hounds, content to watch us tear each other apart while laughing and counting their new shiny coins. Best thing to do is to take a step back for a minute and get a better view of the big picture. Many great concerns have been brought up such as collabs, mod requirements, and piracy. What will Valve do to correct these things? Will they even give a damn? Do you really want to be joining their side without knowing that whether or not they will even fight for you or back you up? And on the "Freeside", many say they will start donating now just to keep you off the SW. Will they? Do you trust them anymore than you do Valve? Will they help out with identifying and reporting piracy of your work should someone else try to sell it on the SW?

Far too soon to join either Valvthesda or Freeside. Talk with people, debate the finer points and concerns, and then after some time (when the wolves calm down a bit) make an informed decision that you feel is right.

And that goes for everyone. Modders can chose to use a paywall, donation, or free distribution of their mods. Users can chose to pay, donate, or use freely given mods. No one has the right to say whether that person made the right choice or not. It is their choice alone. All I ask is that you make one after being well informed.

TL; DR I applaud phenderix for taking a step back to look at things and will ultimately respect any decision that mod makers/users decide to make. All I suggest is that you make it an informed one.

Joeblivion wrote: I think you are making a good choice in changing your mind to making all your mods Nexus exclusive.

When I initially read your first post, I immediately decided that if I saw a mod with your name on it I would skip it and move on out of principle.

I am very pleased that you changed your mind though. You have restored a little bit of my hope for the future of the modding community of Skyrim in general.

I hope that you continue to get endorsements and praise despite what Valve and Beth are doing.

phenderix wrote: Thank you all for the comments.
I heavily considered whether or not to do this all day.


The respectful comments and messages I have received from users and modders on this site made me change my mind.

I hope the community can unite and figure out a solution to all of this instead of just cursing at one another and ripping people that make a decision to monetize their mods. I am sure there is some way that everyone can benefit.

digitaltrucker wrote: Whatever happens, the modding community will never be the same after this :(

cTuck88 wrote: @ digitaltrucker

Sadly, you are correct. This has divided the modding community into so many factions. Some will stick it out going free, having to fight a whole host of new problems (well not really new, but much more toxic) such as paid piracy, potential copyright/DMCA threats and god knows what else. Some will get burned by this so badly that they will simply stop modding forever, which is a very sad thing to think about. And others will rise up because of this to be the new generation of mod makers, whether to champion for or against this new way of modding.

digitaltrucker wrote: In any event the past, oh, five years or so will be remembered as the golden age of modding...and it ended with a quarter.

BarnabasCollins wrote: @Digitaltrucker

And that's probably the core issue for me. This was an atom bomb dropped out of nowhere and suddenly nothing will ever be the same.

@digitaltrucker Sadly, i think that was the overall point. This whole thing seems like it was geared up simply to make us as angry as possible.

No warnings, NDAs not allowing authors to speak up, Valve effectively put us against authors, and it worked. Chesko and Isoku, two of the best modders on nexus are now gone for an undetermind time, made to be scapegoats for Valves little project.

We simply have to come out of this stronger than before, giving more care and attention to modders, and by donating more often, because they do deserve something for their work lets be honest.

[sh0d4n]

In response to post #24597829. #24598674, #24599279, #24599624, #24621674, #24622339, #24622439, #24623969, #24626364, #24630889, #24631304, #24631609, #24632534, #24632799 are all replies on the same post.

anarkywolf wrote:

Shadow_Dragyn wrote: They are not viable. The number of people who actually donate anything to any mod is literally several decimal places beneath a fraction of a percent. Some people are trying to put up crappy or stolen mods for a fee out of greed, but that isn't the norm.
The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy.
People do not donate, and that's why something like this is necessary to help support modding and let it grow.
Finances have been the main thing keeping me from being able to mod as much as I would like, and I'm not the only person who has been facing that kind of issue.
How many times have you seen someone release a quality outfit that was not made of recycled parts? Hardly ever, because once someone has enough skill to actually do something like that, they'd be better off creating it for someone else's game, or even their own game, and getting paid for it.
Even Faalskar was created simply because the author was confident that he could land a job off of it. No one could justify devoting that kind of time and energy without getting anything back from it.
A "hobby" is not something everyone has the luxury of spending much time on, especially in cases like this when you already clearly have the hobby of playing video games and this would directly eat into that.

BattlemasterRiin wrote: @Shadow

No, the greedy ones are those that EXPECT compensation. I for one, will never, EVER buy a mod off Steam. I will however, donate to authors I feel deserve it. Do you think those that refuse to donate are going to instead BUY the mod? hah! If anything, it's only hurting the Modders, those would would normally donate now will not, if the Mod is up for sale on the Workshop.

Shadow_Dragyn wrote: I think you're missing the point. If no one buys a single mod, it's all the same regardless.
I would really like to know who, if anyone, you have ever actually donated to.
This isn't stopping anyone from donating, because they never donated in the first place. Modders are not the monsters here. It's the people who have never given anything back to the community demonizing the people who actually do.
If you truly have donated to anyone, then good on you. But the number of people who really have is astronomically small.
Particularly in contrast to the massive wave of people crying foul about this.

GanonDarkLord wrote: I actually just found out about the donations bit of the nexus today (never took the time to look at the creators profiles in detail) and donated to my top 4 favorites. As the month goes on I'll donate to the rest of creators of the mods I use.

qwert44643qaz wrote: I stand with shadow on this..now even the mod users who agree with modders who would like to make a buck are being attacked.
And you are right about the donations..i have over a 100 mods and have only donated $20 to 1 modder...i plan on donating a bit to my favorite mods next week on payday.

Ghatto wrote: "The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy."

Hahaha. Nobody is being greedy or entitled man. Nobody had to donate because it was never a charity. Sure people could if they wanted to, and I'm fine with that. However nobody has been stealing or taking or screwing over anybody until now. Nobody forced these modders to make anything and nobody could. Nobody needed to make free mods and nobody deserved free mods but look at that... this site was full of them.

I did nothing but sit on my butt and free stuff appeared. No entitlement. No greed.

Joeblivion wrote: @ Shadow_Dragyn

I think the reason people are revolting against 'their' free content being taken away, is because the mod makers gave this free content up willingly to begin with.

They did it with the pretense and knowledge that MANY people will not donate. If the mod maker was really serious about getting donations, they would not go through a service that makes it optional.

I think (and hope) that most mod makers do it for some sense of personal satisfaction. I mean, if they didn't, then why would they do it?

I think that is why the community is all of a sudden confused and frustrated that what was once given up freely, paid for in admiration and respect, is now being paid for with dollar bills.

Your belief that we are all ungrateful, free loaders is pretty condescending. We love mods, we love the makers of the mods, only severe materialists would say that we can only show that appreciation by throwing paper at those mod makers.

Aegrus wrote: Agreed, donations are not viable. I've actually never recieved a single donation, but I find it hilarious how people opposed to this are suddenly acting like donations will save this whole thing and make everything okay again when they've never donated in their lives.

greentea101 wrote: @Shadow_Dragyn
"Finances have been the main thing keeping me from being able to mod as much as I would like"
To me, that translates to "I don't have enough free time to do what I want". In an ideal world, I suppose you could monetize your modding work and live off the money, freeing you from having to spend time working on something less desirable for a living. In reality, I think that's probably only possible if you make something immensely useful and popular (like SkyUI for example), so I wouldn't get too excited about that, considering the tiny 25%.

In any case, in my opinion monetizing mods is a destructive action overall, that isn't worth the few benefits it offers. I'm all for keeping this a hobby, and I'm one of those who want to get stuff for free. I've never donated to a mod author, and I've only ever received one $10 donation myself. Getting cool stuff for free was what attracted me to this community in the first place, as it has hugely enhanced my experience with Bethesda's games.

That's what modding is about for me, not making a living. I'm convinced that modifying games as a hobby, for the purpose of enhancing the gaming experience for yourself and everyone else of like mind, is a much better idea than trying to make it a viable career option. I don't buy the argument that that would attract more professionals, thereby increasing the overall quality of the mods. The opposite will probably happen, with the modding scene experiencing a negative net effect. We'll see how it will go, but in the mean time I'm staying the f. away from the Steam workshop.

Milleuros wrote: @ Shadow :

""The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy.""

You don't want to waste your time and energy to give away stuff ? --> You don't mod. It's as simple as that.


Let me ask one thing.
Battlefield 2, Dota 2, Counter Strike have all been created out of free mods. I think I don't have to explain how great the original mods were and how much content and work people put into it.
In many other games there have been huge mods and/or huge amount of mods. People have worked extremely hard to make mods and give them away for free.
And it worked.
The main argument pro PC gaming is the access to game-enhancing mod. I don't know how many of us bought Skyrim on PC because of its mods.

All of this worked without modder even wanting a compensation.

Why shouldn't it work anymore ?

Asyrin wrote: "You don't want to waste your time and energy to give away stuff ? --> You don't mod. It's as simple as that."

Not true any longer.

Now you can transmute those hundreds or thousands of hours into real compensation for your work. Many of us believe it's a good thing.

nhoclesnar wrote: @Shadow_Dragyn

Shadow, you need to look at this not only from a financial perspective but from other aspects as well.

For example,
"The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy."

Your view in this statement implies that it is natural for people to be rewarded for their work in the form of money, and those who do not reward the creators with money are wrong and greedy. Now think about this in a broader perspective. When someone creates a mod and decide share their work for free, other people would use it and comment on it. While most users would just install, endorse, and vote for their favorite mods, some of them would take time and make compatibility patches, improvements, updates, and some would even be inspired by the author and create their own mods. After some time, there would be a lot of different mods shared within the community created by these authors who used to be mod users and, at this point, members of this community can choose from a selection of many different mods. These mods are free and people will continue to produce free mods as long as the rules within the community does not change.

This extensive network of mod sharing is a big reward to the mod authors. The common goal of all mod authors is to improve the game, and what they reap from giving out free mods to the community is a collection of mods that they can install to improve their games, for free. In fact, everyone benefits from this free sharing system.

Your implication was that money is the ultimate form of reward, and that everyone should pay mod authors for their hard work. No, they can reward the authors through other means, by creating their own mods, by giving positive comments, by giving modding advice for the authors, by sharing their assets, etc...And by deciding to do one of those things instead of giving donation, they are not being greedy. From what I've seen, the Nexus is a healthy community and, if greedy users exist, I believe that there are very few greedy users here in the Nexus.

"People do not donate, and that's why something like this is necessary to help support modding and let it grow."
As I stated above, donation is not the only form of rewarding a mod author for their work. People can support modding by other means as well.

"Finances have been the main thing keeping me from being able to mod as much as I would like, and I'm not the only person who has been facing that kind of issue."
You mod because you enjoy the game and want to improve it, or perhaps you are inspired by some mods you saw, or maybe you just want to practice your skills in modeling and photoshop, etc...I don't know what your reasons are, but it doesn't make sense to me that "finances", or money, is the thing that "keeps [you] from being able to mod as much as [you] like". Modding does not cost money except for the electric and internet bill you have to pay. The only thing you spend is the time, creativity, and interest that otherwise would be put into something else. If your internet is cut because you cannot pay the bill or your laptop got damaged and you have nothing to work on, you can just mention it in the comment sections so the users will understand and some kind users would help you finish the mod or even donate to you. The mod author of RLO, Sydney, posted a plea for help and got quite a bit of financial support from Nexus users, including me. After all, since you are spending your own time for modding and sharing it for free, the users would always honor your decisions and understand your circumstances.

I will stop here because I believe that you get the idea of what I'm trying to say. I'm not bashing you nor your argument. I'm only trying to add to your argument and to correct it. Have a nice day.

nhoclesnar wrote: @Asyrin
Money is not the only form of "compensation" (reward, you mean?) for one's work (read my post above). Not to mention that Valve does not pay the authors in the form of cash, but in the form of Steam credits. This is ironic since this little 25% can only be spent on purchasing games, DLC, and in-game credit through Steam, which means it will eventually return to Valve's pocket. Good guy Valve now owns both the mod and the money, the money that is supposed to be used to 'support' the author. It sounds more like supporting Valve to me. Buying mod is utterly an unfair way to "compensate" the mod authors; just give donation instead.

@Shadow_Dragyn: Not everyone has money to spare like that. Its the reason gamers like me mod at all, because its free. If I had any money to give I would. But I simply do not have it. Thats what is so frustrating because I know that some mod makers are also in the same boat. Heck many of us who got started with mods did it because it was a free way to extend our gaming enjoyment. We wouldn't have been able to afford to otherwise.

I cant believe Valve and Bethesda are so f*#@ing blind to that. They obviously dont care about their communities. If they did they certainly wouldn't have dreamed up a way to monetise a free pastime. One that continues to line their pockets through lifetime Steam sales of Skyrim and Fallout due to people seeing all the wonderful mods and wanting to try them for free. That wouldn't happen if the was a cost associated with it.

This is just like when MS Xbox pushed for their online paywall, or when they tried to push that horrendous always-on DRM, no-trade in on boxed goods policy and the ad-spy kinect during the xb1's run up to launch. Thankfully they failed on the xb1 and console gamers are enjoying a much more unrestrictive and better machine than they would have had nobody said anything.

In both cases gamers made that happen. The first time because they didn't fight, and the second because they did. In this case with the Curated Workshop, it will be gamers who allow it to live or die. And people like you are sadly on the wrong side. I wish you knew what it felt like to not have a great deal of money. If you did you wouldn't be defending the CWS. Edited April 25, 2015 by sh0d4n

[WightMage]

In response to post #24630814. #24631564, #24631654 are all replies on the same post.

WistfulDread wrote:

Impulseman45 wrote: yes, and thats the point, here on the Nexus there is an open dialog with the mod creator so that if there is something wrong with the mod it can be worked out. Steam Workshop is just not setup for this kind of interaction. The whole way mod are installed bypasses all the standard ways of installing and managing mods. I am wondering if the mod creators are even giving this any thought at all. If they think they are going to be able to load the mod on Steam and then use the Nexus as a means of working out all the problems, well that will need to dealt with right away. As far as I am concerned if the mod is not fully hosted on Nexus than Nexus and its users and forums are off limits to those mod makers as they made a concerted choice to bypass the most reliable method of testing and vetting their mods. Just something to consider

Asyrin wrote: Testing a mod on Nexus is a terrible, terrible idea. Most users downloading mods from nexus expect them to be 100% bug free, expect not to have to read ANY documentation, and expect them to work with their latest random big boobs mod.

A REAL playtest is controlled and performed by those with the knowledge and motivation to give constructive feedback. i.e. people you know and trust.

Reading through your first few sentences I thought you were trying to be sarcastic.

Most users downloading from the Nexus don't expect them to be 100% bug free, unless you by "most users" you mean the summer kids that pop by anytime the game's on sale or has a free weekend, and then quit soon after. It doesn't take a genius to figure out after the first week or so in the modding scene that nothing is going to be 100% bug free. The games certainly never were.

A "real" playtest as you describe doesn't require people with "specific" knowledge either- often all they need to do is alert the mod author that something is wrong, and if possible specify what the symptoms are like and where they occur. Limiting this to people you know and trust is inefficient when the community itself is only all too eager to tell you if something's wrong with your work. Take the NMM Alpha team for instance- they knew that the quickest way to test and patch their product was to release it to the community and let us handle the bug testing; even if we don't know why something doesn't work, the most important part is that we're providing them otherwise free labor out of our own free will, as opposed to them hiring people just to bugtest.

[Reaper0021]

In response to post #24603704. #24603984, #24604109 are all replies on the same post.

SpicyTM wrote:

raupao wrote: You arent very bright are you? Read this and dont be so naive next time.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/04/24/valves-paid-skyrim-mods-are-a-legal-ethical-and-creative-disaster/

Milleuros wrote: I never paid for DLC, now games have almost no content at day one and if I buy the regular edition I can't play with my friends who bought all DLCs. I never paid for pre-order bonuses and now it's impossible to find any game without a part of its content being only available as pre-order.

I never paid for a game edited by a company I strongly disagreed with their politics, now I don't buy games anymore.

I will never pay for a mod. Guess what ?

You make a new account and post something like this to Troll. Not the brightest crayon in the box are we? People have the RIGHT to voice their opinions and complain about "Paid Mods" all they wish.

[bigdeano89]

This whole thing seems like it was geared up simply to make us as angry as possible.

 

No warnings, NDAs not allowing authors to speak up. With one swift swipe, Valve effectively put us against authors, and it worked. Chesko and Isoku, two of the best modders on nexus are now gone for an undetermined time, made to be scapegoats for Valves little project.

 

We simply have to come out of this stronger, giving more care and attention to modders, and by donating more often, because they do deserve something for their work lets be honest.

[ARKRedeemer]

Thank you guys for supporting we who can't keep paying for mods. As a thank you I shall scrounge up what money I can and donate some time in the near future; you guys deserve it way more than Valve do! Edited April 25, 2015 by clonewars131

[Reaper0021]

This is an interesting read for educating yourselves on some of it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/04/24/valves-paid-skyrim-mods-are-a-legal-ethical-and-creative-disaster/

[MajorKuchiki]

hope someone makes a new type of sky UI mod