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In response to post #24630269. #24631989 is also a reply to the same post.


thomrueck wrote:
WightMage wrote: For the amount of effort necessary to sustain something like that, it would be exceedingly more profitable (and less work! and probably less stress!) to work at your local McDonalds. Or even Walmart.

So much for living off of making mods!


oh and there is a thing also if the mod somehow breaks your game you can only get refunded "in steam money" in 24 hours so if it breaks your game say two days after you pay it's not their problem it's between the publisher and you

this is just plain stealing
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Guys, one way to solve this problem would be to dump the greedy Beth, and move on to making mods for the games which don't have this paid bull***t. Then you wouldn't have to worry of your content being stolen and sold.

 

Soon to be released Witcher 3 (comes out on May 19) seems to be a good option. It's world is larger than Skyrim, so there is plenty of space for creative freedom. And the devs, CD Projekt, will never introduce paid mods, both due to their pro-consumer image, and for purely business reasons: they have their own DRM-free online distribution platform, GOG.com; therefore they wouldn't want to lock people to Steam.

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In response to post #24630269. #24631989, #24632109 are all replies on the same post.


thomrueck wrote:
WightMage wrote: For the amount of effort necessary to sustain something like that, it would be exceedingly more profitable (and less work! and probably less stress!) to work at your local McDonalds. Or even Walmart.

So much for living off of making mods!
romanian9 wrote: oh and there is a thing also if the mod somehow breaks your game you can only get refunded "in steam money" in 24 hours so if it breaks your game say two days after you pay it's not their problem it's between the publisher and you

this is just plain stealing


Link?
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In response to post #24632199. #24632329 is also a reply to the same post.


jerff wrote:
ricxardo wrote: But, Witcher 3 won't have dedicated mod-support, right? Not from what I've read. Yes, Witcher 2 has mods, but not to the extent that TES has. Correct me if I'm wrong.


Witcher 2 came out with RedKit which is similar to the Creation Kit. It's likely that given the open-minded attitude of CDProjektRed and the fact they had this tool in the past, that they're likely to release something similar for the Witcher 3. They've said in the past that they are thrilled by the modding scene and very interested in seeing what the community can come up with. There's even a mod on the Nexus for Witcher 2 that was made by someone from the dev team which tweaks combat.
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In response to post #24630269. #24631989, #24632109, #24632359 are all replies on the same post.


thomrueck wrote:
WightMage wrote: For the amount of effort necessary to sustain something like that, it would be exceedingly more profitable (and less work! and probably less stress!) to work at your local McDonalds. Or even Walmart.

So much for living off of making mods!
romanian9 wrote: oh and there is a thing also if the mod somehow breaks your game you can only get refunded "in steam money" in 24 hours so if it breaks your game say two days after you pay it's not their problem it's between the publisher and you

this is just plain stealing
Eiffel wrote: Link?


Should have made Patreon accounts like the minecraft modders, eh..
https://feedthebeast.atlassian.net/wiki/display/PML/Patreon+Page
Get anywhere from a hundred or so up to $1500 a month like that Pahimar fellow.
Already support a couple people on Patreon, would have supported a few modders from here too.


One thing though, I've never seen the donate button on this site before. Since it's being made more obvious now, well perhaps adding an option to NMM or MO or something would be nice too.
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In response to post #24597829. #24598674, #24599279, #24599624, #24621674, #24622339, #24622439, #24623969, #24626364, #24630889, #24631304, #24631609, #24632799 are all replies on the same post.


anarkywolf wrote:
Shadow_Dragyn wrote: They are not viable. The number of people who actually donate anything to any mod is literally several decimal places beneath a fraction of a percent. Some people are trying to put up crappy or stolen mods for a fee out of greed, but that isn't the norm.
The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy.
People do not donate, and that's why something like this is necessary to help support modding and let it grow.
Finances have been the main thing keeping me from being able to mod as much as I would like, and I'm not the only person who has been facing that kind of issue.
How many times have you seen someone release a quality outfit that was not made of recycled parts? Hardly ever, because once someone has enough skill to actually do something like that, they'd be better off creating it for someone else's game, or even their own game, and getting paid for it.
Even Faalskar was created simply because the author was confident that he could land a job off of it. No one could justify devoting that kind of time and energy without getting anything back from it.
A "hobby" is not something everyone has the luxury of spending much time on, especially in cases like this when you already clearly have the hobby of playing video games and this would directly eat into that.
BattlemasterRiin wrote: @Shadow

No, the greedy ones are those that EXPECT compensation. I for one, will never, EVER buy a mod off Steam. I will however, donate to authors I feel deserve it. Do you think those that refuse to donate are going to instead BUY the mod? hah! If anything, it's only hurting the Modders, those would would normally donate now will not, if the Mod is up for sale on the Workshop.
Shadow_Dragyn wrote: I think you're missing the point. If no one buys a single mod, it's all the same regardless.
I would really like to know who, if anyone, you have ever actually donated to.
This isn't stopping anyone from donating, because they never donated in the first place. Modders are not the monsters here. It's the people who have never given anything back to the community demonizing the people who actually do.
If you truly have donated to anyone, then good on you. But the number of people who really have is astronomically small.
Particularly in contrast to the massive wave of people crying foul about this.
GanonDarkLord wrote: I actually just found out about the donations bit of the nexus today (never took the time to look at the creators profiles in detail) and donated to my top 4 favorites. As the month goes on I'll donate to the rest of creators of the mods I use.
qwert44643qaz wrote: I stand with shadow on this..now even the mod users who agree with modders who would like to make a buck are being attacked.
And you are right about the donations..i have over a 100 mods and have only donated $20 to 1 modder...i plan on donating a bit to my favorite mods next week on payday.
Ghatto wrote: "The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy."

Hahaha. Nobody is being greedy or entitled man. Nobody had to donate because it was never a charity. Sure people could if they wanted to, and I'm fine with that. However nobody has been stealing or taking or screwing over anybody until now. Nobody forced these modders to make anything and nobody could. Nobody needed to make free mods and nobody deserved free mods but look at that... this site was full of them.

I did nothing but sit on my butt and free stuff appeared. No entitlement. No greed.
Joeblivion wrote: @ Shadow_Dragyn

I think the reason people are revolting against 'their' free content being taken away, is because the mod makers gave this free content up willingly to begin with.

They did it with the pretense and knowledge that MANY people will not donate. If the mod maker was really serious about getting donations, they would not go through a service that makes it optional.

I think (and hope) that most mod makers do it for some sense of personal satisfaction. I mean, if they didn't, then why would they do it?

I think that is why the community is all of a sudden confused and frustrated that what was once given up freely, paid for in admiration and respect, is now being paid for with dollar bills.

Your belief that we are all ungrateful, free loaders is pretty condescending. We love mods, we love the makers of the mods, only severe materialists would say that we can only show that appreciation by throwing paper at those mod makers.
Aegrus wrote: Agreed, donations are not viable. I've actually never recieved a single donation, but I find it hilarious how people opposed to this are suddenly acting like donations will save this whole thing and make everything okay again when they've never donated in their lives.
greentea101 wrote: @Shadow_Dragyn
"Finances have been the main thing keeping me from being able to mod as much as I would like"
To me, that translates to "I don't have enough free time to do what I want". In an ideal world, I suppose you could monetize your modding work and live off the money, freeing you from having to spend time working on something less desirable for a living. In reality, I think that's probably only possible if you make something immensely useful and popular (like SkyUI for example), so I wouldn't get too excited about that, considering the tiny 25%.

In any case, in my opinion monetizing mods is a destructive action overall, that isn't worth the few benefits it offers. I'm all for keeping this a hobby, and I'm one of those who want to get stuff for free. I've never donated to a mod author, and I've only ever received one $10 donation myself. Getting cool stuff for free was what attracted me to this community in the first place, as it has hugely enhanced my experience with Bethesda's games.

That's what modding is about for me, not making a living. I'm convinced that modifying games as a hobby, for the purpose of enhancing the gaming experience for yourself and everyone else of like mind, is a much better idea than trying to make it a viable career option. I don't buy the argument that that would attract more professionals, thereby increasing the overall quality of the mods. The opposite will probably happen, with the modding scene experiencing a negative net effect. We'll see how it will go, but in the mean time I'm staying the f. away from the Steam workshop.
Milleuros wrote: @ Shadow :

""The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy.""

You don't want to waste your time and energy to give away stuff ? --> You don't mod. It's as simple as that.


Let me ask one thing.
Battlefield 2, Dota 2, Counter Strike have all been created out of free mods. I think I don't have to explain how great the original mods were and how much content and work people put into it.
In many other games there have been huge mods and/or huge amount of mods. People have worked extremely hard to make mods and give them away for free.
And it worked.
The main argument pro PC gaming is the access to game-enhancing mod. I don't know how many of us bought Skyrim on PC because of its mods.

All of this worked without modder even wanting a compensation.

Why shouldn't it work anymore ?
Asyrin wrote: "You don't want to waste your time and energy to give away stuff ? --> You don't mod. It's as simple as that."

Not true any longer.

Now you can transmute those hundreds or thousands of hours into real compensation for your work. Many of us believe it's a good thing.
nhoclesnar wrote: @Asyrin
Money is not the only form of "compensation" (reward, you mean?) for one's work (read my post above). Not to mention that Valve does not pay the authors in the form of cash, but in the form of Steam credits. This is ironic since this little 25% can only be spent on purchasing games, DLC, and in-game credit through Steam, which means it will eventually return to Valve's pocket. Good guy Valve now owns both the mod and the money, the money that is supposed to be used to 'support' the author. It sounds more like supporting Valve to me. Buying mod is utterly an unfair way to "compensate" the mod authors; just give donation instead.


@Shadow_Dragyn

Shadow, you need to look at this not only from a financial perspective but from other aspects as well.

For example,
"The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy."

Your view in this statement implies that it is natural for people to be rewarded for their work in the form of money, and those who do not reward the creators with money are wrong and greedy. Now think about this in a broader perspective. When someone creates a mod and decide share their work for free, other people would use it and comment on it. While most users would just install, endorse, and vote for their favorite mods, some of them would take time and make compatibility patches, improvements, updates, and some would even be inspired by the author and create their own mods. After some time, there would be a lot of different mods shared within the community created by these authors who used to be mod users and, at this point, members of this community can choose from a selection of many different mods. These mods are free and people will continue to produce free mods as long as the rules within the community does not change.

This extensive network of mod sharing is a big reward to the mod authors. The common goal of all mod authors is to improve the game, and what they reap from giving out free mods to the community is a collection of mods that they can install to improve their games, for free. In fact, everyone benefits from this free sharing system.

Your implication was that money is the ultimate form of reward, and that everyone should pay mod authors for their hard work. No, they can reward the authors through other means, by creating their own mods, by giving positive comments, by giving modding advice for the authors, by sharing their assets, etc...And by deciding to do one of those things instead of giving donation, they are not being greedy. From what I've seen, the Nexus is a healthy community and, if greedy users exist, I believe that there are very few greedy users here in the Nexus.

"People do not donate, and that's why something like this is necessary to help support modding and let it grow."
As I stated above, donation is not the only form of rewarding a mod author for their work. People can support modding by other means as well.

"Finances have been the main thing keeping me from being able to mod as much as I would like, and I'm not the only person who has been facing that kind of issue."
You mod because you enjoy the game and want to improve it, or perhaps you are inspired by some mods you saw, or maybe you just want to practice your skills in modeling and photoshop, etc...I don't know what your reasons are, but it doesn't make sense to me that "finances", or money, is the thing that "keeps [you] from being able to mod as much as [you] like". Modding does not cost money except for the electric and internet bill you have to pay. The only thing you spend is the time, creativity, and interest that otherwise would be put into something else. If your internet is cut because you cannot pay the bill or your laptop got damaged and you have nothing to work on, you can just mention it in the comment sections so the users will understand and some kind users would help you finish the mod or even donate to you. The mod author of RLO, Sydney, posted a plea for help and got quite a bit of financial support from Nexus users, including me. After all, since you are spending your own time for modding and sharing it for free, the users would always honor your decisions and understand your circumstances.

I will stop here because I believe that you get the idea of what I'm trying to say. I'm not bashing you nor your argument. I'm only trying to add to your argument and to correct it. Have a nice day. Edited by nhoclesnar
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In response to post #24632199. #24632329, #24632479 are all replies on the same post.


jerff wrote:
ricxardo wrote: But, Witcher 3 won't have dedicated mod-support, right? Not from what I've read. Yes, Witcher 2 has mods, but not to the extent that TES has. Correct me if I'm wrong.
chairmanxyz wrote: Witcher 2 came out with RedKit which is similar to the Creation Kit. It's likely that given the open-minded attitude of CDProjektRed and the fact they had this tool in the past, that they're likely to release something similar for the Witcher 3. They've said in the past that they are thrilled by the modding scene and very interested in seeing what the community can come up with. There's even a mod on the Nexus for Witcher 2 that was made by someone from the dev team which tweaks combat.


Witcher 3 will have dedicated mod support, the devs confirmed long ago that the modkit is coming, look here:
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/30086-The-Witcher-3-Modding?p=1410192#post1410192

Witcher 2 had modding tools, but they were released too late, like 2 years after the release of the game, and didn't get much attention because of that.

In the Witcher 3 case devs promised that they will release modding tools much, much faster.

Also Witcher 2 wasn't open world, and Witcher 3 is open world (larger than Skyrim), and we see that mostly just the open world games have huge modding communities. Edited by jerff
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In response to post #24629149. #24629884, #24630384, #24630654, #24631689, #24631779 are all replies on the same post.


Shurah wrote:
Jsmorris14 wrote: Ill keep a eye out for this. It sounds like a great mod!
badiyee85 wrote: Too bad I can't even go into isoku's page in Steam and promote this.

either he has banned everyone who spoke negatively about his mod (despite whether its true or not), or something else happened.


But either way, if its free and its better, its WORTH telling others.
IgnacyOrder wrote: They baned for a week even those who were not saying anything bad. Jsut were betwen middle finger picture comments. Just they did a biiiig flush on people there XD SO dont worry. Even if you dint say anything vulgare you would be flushed with the wave anyway
WightMage wrote: Looks sweet, will try out when you're done with it.
jukkka1 wrote: I was actually expecting this to happen, just as there are free alternatives to commercial software, there will be free alternatives to commercial mods aswell.


Sorry, but that doesnt sound anything like wet and cold man. It does sound cool, but it barely does anything wet and cold does. No rain dripping, no cold breath, no equipping cloaks and hoods in rain and snow.
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In response to post #24597829. #24598674, #24599279, #24599624, #24621674, #24622339, #24622439, #24623969, #24626364, #24630889, #24631304, #24631609, #24632534 are all replies on the same post.


anarkywolf wrote:
Shadow_Dragyn wrote: They are not viable. The number of people who actually donate anything to any mod is literally several decimal places beneath a fraction of a percent. Some people are trying to put up crappy or stolen mods for a fee out of greed, but that isn't the norm.
The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy.
People do not donate, and that's why something like this is necessary to help support modding and let it grow.
Finances have been the main thing keeping me from being able to mod as much as I would like, and I'm not the only person who has been facing that kind of issue.
How many times have you seen someone release a quality outfit that was not made of recycled parts? Hardly ever, because once someone has enough skill to actually do something like that, they'd be better off creating it for someone else's game, or even their own game, and getting paid for it.
Even Faalskar was created simply because the author was confident that he could land a job off of it. No one could justify devoting that kind of time and energy without getting anything back from it.
A "hobby" is not something everyone has the luxury of spending much time on, especially in cases like this when you already clearly have the hobby of playing video games and this would directly eat into that.
BattlemasterRiin wrote: @Shadow

No, the greedy ones are those that EXPECT compensation. I for one, will never, EVER buy a mod off Steam. I will however, donate to authors I feel deserve it. Do you think those that refuse to donate are going to instead BUY the mod? hah! If anything, it's only hurting the Modders, those would would normally donate now will not, if the Mod is up for sale on the Workshop.
Shadow_Dragyn wrote: I think you're missing the point. If no one buys a single mod, it's all the same regardless.
I would really like to know who, if anyone, you have ever actually donated to.
This isn't stopping anyone from donating, because they never donated in the first place. Modders are not the monsters here. It's the people who have never given anything back to the community demonizing the people who actually do.
If you truly have donated to anyone, then good on you. But the number of people who really have is astronomically small.
Particularly in contrast to the massive wave of people crying foul about this.
GanonDarkLord wrote: I actually just found out about the donations bit of the nexus today (never took the time to look at the creators profiles in detail) and donated to my top 4 favorites. As the month goes on I'll donate to the rest of creators of the mods I use.
qwert44643qaz wrote: I stand with shadow on this..now even the mod users who agree with modders who would like to make a buck are being attacked.
And you are right about the donations..i have over a 100 mods and have only donated $20 to 1 modder...i plan on donating a bit to my favorite mods next week on payday.
Ghatto wrote: "The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy."

Hahaha. Nobody is being greedy or entitled man. Nobody had to donate because it was never a charity. Sure people could if they wanted to, and I'm fine with that. However nobody has been stealing or taking or screwing over anybody until now. Nobody forced these modders to make anything and nobody could. Nobody needed to make free mods and nobody deserved free mods but look at that... this site was full of them.

I did nothing but sit on my butt and free stuff appeared. No entitlement. No greed.
Joeblivion wrote: @ Shadow_Dragyn

I think the reason people are revolting against 'their' free content being taken away, is because the mod makers gave this free content up willingly to begin with.

They did it with the pretense and knowledge that MANY people will not donate. If the mod maker was really serious about getting donations, they would not go through a service that makes it optional.

I think (and hope) that most mod makers do it for some sense of personal satisfaction. I mean, if they didn't, then why would they do it?

I think that is why the community is all of a sudden confused and frustrated that what was once given up freely, paid for in admiration and respect, is now being paid for with dollar bills.

Your belief that we are all ungrateful, free loaders is pretty condescending. We love mods, we love the makers of the mods, only severe materialists would say that we can only show that appreciation by throwing paper at those mod makers.
Aegrus wrote: Agreed, donations are not viable. I've actually never recieved a single donation, but I find it hilarious how people opposed to this are suddenly acting like donations will save this whole thing and make everything okay again when they've never donated in their lives.
greentea101 wrote: @Shadow_Dragyn
"Finances have been the main thing keeping me from being able to mod as much as I would like"
To me, that translates to "I don't have enough free time to do what I want". In an ideal world, I suppose you could monetize your modding work and live off the money, freeing you from having to spend time working on something less desirable for a living. In reality, I think that's probably only possible if you make something immensely useful and popular (like SkyUI for example), so I wouldn't get too excited about that, considering the tiny 25%.

In any case, in my opinion monetizing mods is a destructive action overall, that isn't worth the few benefits it offers. I'm all for keeping this a hobby, and I'm one of those who want to get stuff for free. I've never donated to a mod author, and I've only ever received one $10 donation myself. Getting cool stuff for free was what attracted me to this community in the first place, as it has hugely enhanced my experience with Bethesda's games.

That's what modding is about for me, not making a living. I'm convinced that modifying games as a hobby, for the purpose of enhancing the gaming experience for yourself and everyone else of like mind, is a much better idea than trying to make it a viable career option. I don't buy the argument that that would attract more professionals, thereby increasing the overall quality of the mods. The opposite will probably happen, with the modding scene experiencing a negative net effect. We'll see how it will go, but in the mean time I'm staying the f. away from the Steam workshop.
Milleuros wrote: @ Shadow :

""The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy.""

You don't want to waste your time and energy to give away stuff ? --> You don't mod. It's as simple as that.


Let me ask one thing.
Battlefield 2, Dota 2, Counter Strike have all been created out of free mods. I think I don't have to explain how great the original mods were and how much content and work people put into it.
In many other games there have been huge mods and/or huge amount of mods. People have worked extremely hard to make mods and give them away for free.
And it worked.
The main argument pro PC gaming is the access to game-enhancing mod. I don't know how many of us bought Skyrim on PC because of its mods.

All of this worked without modder even wanting a compensation.

Why shouldn't it work anymore ?
Asyrin wrote: "You don't want to waste your time and energy to give away stuff ? --> You don't mod. It's as simple as that."

Not true any longer.

Now you can transmute those hundreds or thousands of hours into real compensation for your work. Many of us believe it's a good thing.
nhoclesnar wrote: Shadow, you need to look at this not only from a financial perspective but from other aspects as well. For example,
"The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy."
Your view in this statement implies that it is natural for people to be rewarded for their work in the form of money, and those who do not reward the creators with money are wrong and greedy. Now think about this in a broader perspective. When someone creates a mod and decide share their work for free, other people would use it and comment on it. While most users would just install, endorse, and vote for their favorite mods, some of them would take time and make compatibility patches, improvements, updates, and some would even be inspired by the author and create their own mods. After some time, there would be a lot of different mods shared within the community created by these authors who used to be mod users and, at this point, members of this community can choose from a selection of many different mods. These mods are free and people will continue to produce free mods as long as the rules within the community does not change. This extensive network of mod sharing is a big reward to the mod authors. The common goal of all mod authors is to improve the game, and what they reap from giving out free mods to the community is a collection of mods that they can install to improve their games, for free. In fact, everyone benefits from this free sharing system. Your implication was that money is the ultimate form of reward, and that everyone should pay mod authors for their hard work. No, they can reward the authors through other means, by creating their own mods, by giving positive comments, by giving modding advice for the authors, by sharing their assets, etc...And by deciding to do one of those things instead of giving donation, they are not being greedy. From what I've seen, the Nexus is a healthy community and, if greedy users exist, I believe that there are very few greedy users here in the Nexus.

"People do not donate, and that's why something like this is necessary to help support modding and let it grow."
As I stated above, donation is not the only form of rewarding a mod author for their work. People can support modding by other means as well.

"Finances have been the main thing keeping me from being able to mod as much as I would like, and I'm not the only person who has been facing that kind of issue."
You mod because you enjoy the game and want to improve it, or perhaps you are inspired by some mods you saw, or maybe you just want to practice your skills in modeling and photoshop, etc...I don't know what your reasons are, but it doesn't make sense to me that "finances", or money, is the thing that "keeps [you] from being able to mod as much as [you] like". Modding does not cost money except for the electric and internet bill you have to pay. The only thing you spend is the time, creativity, and interest that otherwise would be put into something else. If your internet is cut because you cannot pay the bill or your laptop got damaged and you have nothing to work on, you can just mention it in the comment sections so the users will understand and some kind users would help you finish the mod or even donate to you. The mod author of RLO, Sydney, posted a plea for help and got quite a bit of financial support from Nexus users, including me. After all, since you are spending your own time for modding and sharing it for free, the users would always honor your decisions and understand your circumstances.

I will stop here because I believe that you get the idea of what I'm trying to say. I'm not bashing you nor your argument. I'm only trying to add to your argument and to correct it. Have a nice day.


@Asyrin
Money is not the only form of "compensation" (reward, you mean?) for one's work (read my post above). Not to mention that Valve does not pay the authors in the form of cash, but in the form of Steam credits. This is ironic since this little 25% can only be spent on purchasing games, DLC, and in-game credit through Steam, which means it will eventually return to Valve's pocket. Good guy Valve now owns both the mod and the money, the money that is supposed to be used to 'support' the author. It sounds more like supporting Valve to me. Buying mod is utterly an unfair way to "compensate" the mod authors; just give donation instead.
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