Quick updates to the site, money money money edition

[WistfulDread]

Honestly, I'm not inherently against paying for mods. But I can never trust a mod not to break something I won't know about until I've reached a point where I need to start over. And that's why I never will.

 

On the case of whether they deserve to get paid, modding always seemed to me like an Internship. You aren't going to get paid. It was about learning the trade, showing your talents, and getting your name out there.

You either learn from it and find your way to a long-term career, or you burn out and leave it behind you. Plenty of talented modders even do both.

[Impulseman45]

In response to post #24626904. #24629779, #24630139, #24630399, #24630554 are all replies on the same post.

Nightasy wrote:

Impulseman45 wrote: Dude, I do not know what to say, but boy do you feel entitled or what. You would not even be the modder you are if were not for all the people that downloaded your mods. You can make all the mods you want, but if they do not get downloaded they are nothing. The people that downloaded your mods are the ones that supported you in your ventures and encouraged you forward. So you couldn't make money on the mods in the past. Well those were the rules that were set down by Bethesda not us. Giving us all attitude over the fact is not going to win you points. Don't get me wrong, I feel that modders that put tons of time and effort into mod making do deserve to get something. It wasn't an option in the past and it is now. But it is just not the time to be jumping the gun. If i were you I would and see how this all shakes out. It could very well blow up in Bethesda's face big time. The whole pay scale is a total ripoff and you are not gong to earn anything really. Wait and see if they restructure the scale of things. The other things to remember that once you go behind that pay-wall all your mods are theirs and you have to all the support work for it for a mere 25% cut.They are not going to let you pull your mods out. Talk to Chesko about it. Is it really worth risking everything just so you feel that you are finally getting what you feel you are due.

Milleuros wrote: ""keep in mind that it is their mods and if they want to sell them that is their choice.""

I stopped there.

They use a game motor which is not yours and they have no right on it. They use the creation kit that they got a free license on it. They rely on community-made tools and read several tutorials from community members to make their mod.

By putting it on the Steam Workshop, they directly agree that all rights from their mod belong to Valve and Bethesda.
If they do not agree, then they forgot to read the conditions.

A modder has no right on its creation. He can just ask people to be honest.

Nightasy wrote: See, I think you're misreading my sentiments. First off I never said anything that even remotely hinted as to a sense of entitlement. I have no idea where you got that idea from.

Let me put it like this. I was pretty much done modding Skyrim. I mean finito as in not doing it anymore anyways. Now I do not have any intention of taking the mods I already released for free and making them paid content, to me that seems wrong. Content that I already released for free will always remain free right here on the Nexus. I also feel inclined to release additional free mods along with the paid mods to sort of balance out the charity with the profiteering, that's just my good nature though.

I just plan on throwing a few more out there since they added this paid system. Had this paid system not been added then I wouldn't be creating any more mods. As I said, I was pretty much done modding Skyrim. Just lost interest in the game and modding it. But hey, if there is an option to make money doing it then I've nothing better to do so I figure I can throw a few more mods out there. Keep in mind that had the paid for mods system not been implemented then I would not be creating more mods because as I said before, I was done modding.

25%, yea that's pretty lame but it's 25% more then I make now. People are buying those mods, that's money man. Money I don't have. Yes, with all the ranters and nay sayers, people are still buying those mods which means one thing. Paid for mods aren't going away. Might as well accept it and deal with it because Valve and Bethesda are making money off of the matter at hand. I can assure it, it's not going away. So you can do one of two things, take part in it to possibly make a few bucks or don't and make nothing. That's essentially what it boils down to.

Now I understand that most people that get involved with it will completely stop releasing free mods. I'm not one of those people though. I've decided that I'll still release a few free mods here and there along with the pay for mods. I can only recommend other mod authors do the same but I can't discourage anyone from making money off of art when an opportunity presents itself.

Impulseman45 wrote: Exactly, and lets all hope that this is not spread into other Bethesda games. I swear if a New Vegas Workshop goes up i am totally deleting every single Bethesda game I own. I don't care about the loss of the money, I have gotten a ton out them, but this would prove only one thing. Valve and Bethesda are out to take total control of the whole modding scene. As it stands my finger is hovering over my delete button on my one and only mod here. I just don't like all the darkness that it has caused. Its sucking the life and fun out of Skyrim. I just can't even begin to want to launch the game anymore. My big fear as already mentioned is they go after New Vegas next.

But are you really realizing the whole thing that your mods are not your mods anymore. They will belong to them, you will be made to service them. I know it sounds very Borg like, but that is what it is. You will make the mods, you will support the mods, and you will service Valve and Bethesda. You will will be responsible for all of the that is connected to that mod including conflicts with other mods. You are getting into a very steep contract. So you are willing to sell your soul to the devil. Again, I have absolutely no problem with you getting paid, but its just not a good idea at this time. Look, take from someone that no doubt is several decades older than you. Step back, and just wait and see. Do not jump the gun. Let the dust settle and then make the jump. and really the whole thing about it being a few buck here and there, is it really worth it then. I am sure you can make those few bucks doing other things, especially if you had already walked away from modding.

[greentea101]

In response to post #24597829. #24598674, #24599279, #24599624, #24621674, #24622339, #24622439, #24623969, #24626364 are all replies on the same post.

anarkywolf wrote:

Shadow_Dragyn wrote: They are not viable. The number of people who actually donate anything to any mod is literally several decimal places beneath a fraction of a percent. Some people are trying to put up crappy or stolen mods for a fee out of greed, but that isn't the norm.
The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy.
People do not donate, and that's why something like this is necessary to help support modding and let it grow.
Finances have been the main thing keeping me from being able to mod as much as I would like, and I'm not the only person who has been facing that kind of issue.
How many times have you seen someone release a quality outfit that was not made of recycled parts? Hardly ever, because once someone has enough skill to actually do something like that, they'd be better off creating it for someone else's game, or even their own game, and getting paid for it.
Even Faalskar was created simply because the author was confident that he could land a job off of it. No one could justify devoting that kind of time and energy without getting anything back from it.
A "hobby" is not something everyone has the luxury of spending much time on, especially in cases like this when you already clearly have the hobby of playing video games and this would directly eat into that.

BattlemasterRiin wrote: @Shadow

No, the greedy ones are those that EXPECT compensation. I for one, will never, EVER buy a mod off Steam. I will however, donate to authors I feel deserve it. Do you think those that refuse to donate are going to instead BUY the mod? hah! If anything, it's only hurting the Modders, those would would normally donate now will not, if the Mod is up for sale on the Workshop.

Shadow_Dragyn wrote: I think you're missing the point. If no one buys a single mod, it's all the same regardless.
I would really like to know who, if anyone, you have ever actually donated to.
This isn't stopping anyone from donating, because they never donated in the first place. Modders are not the monsters here. It's the people who have never given anything back to the community demonizing the people who actually do.
If you truly have donated to anyone, then good on you. But the number of people who really have is astronomically small.
Particularly in contrast to the massive wave of people crying foul about this.

GanonDarkLord wrote: I actually just found out about the donations bit of the nexus today (never took the time to look at the creators profiles in detail) and donated to my top 4 favorites. As the month goes on I'll donate to the rest of creators of the mods I use.

qwert44643qaz wrote: I stand with shadow on this..now even the mod users who agree with modders who would like to make a buck are being attacked.
And you are right about the donations..i have over a 100 mods and have only donated $20 to 1 modder...i plan on donating a bit to my favorite mods next week on payday.

Ghatto wrote: "The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy."

Hahaha. Nobody is being greedy or entitled man. Nobody had to donate because it was never a charity. Sure people could if they wanted to, and I'm fine with that. However nobody has been stealing or taking or screwing over anybody until now. Nobody forced these modders to make anything and nobody could. Nobody needed to make free mods and nobody deserved free mods but look at that... this site was full of them.

I did nothing but sit on my butt and free stuff appeared. No entitlement. No greed.

Joeblivion wrote: @ Shadow_Dragyn

I think the reason people are revolting against 'their' free content being taken away, is because the mod makers gave this free content up willingly to begin with.

They did it with the pretense and knowledge that MANY people will not donate. If the mod maker was really serious about getting donations, they would not go through a service that makes it optional.

I think (and hope) that most mod makers do it for some sense of personal satisfaction. I mean, if they didn't, then why would they do it?

I think that is why the community is all of a sudden confused and frustrated that what was once given up freely, paid for in admiration and respect, is now being paid for with dollar bills.

Your belief that we are all ungrateful, free loaders is pretty condescending. We love mods, we love the makers of the mods, only severe materialists would say that we can only show that appreciation by throwing paper at those mod makers.

Aegrus wrote: Agreed, donations are not viable. I've actually never recieved a single donation, but I find it hilarious how people opposed to this are suddenly acting like donations will save this whole thing and make everything okay again when they've never donated in their lives.

@Shadow_Dragyn
"Finances have been the main thing keeping me from being able to mod as much as I would like"
To me, that translates to "I don't have enough free time to do what I want". In an ideal world, I suppose you could monetize your modding work and live off the money, freeing you from having to spend time working on something less desirable for a living. In reality, I think that's probably only possible if you make something immensely useful and popular (like SkyUI for example), so I wouldn't get too excited about that, considering the tiny 25%.

In any case, in my opinion monetizing mods is a destructive action overall, that isn't worth the few benefits it offers. I'm all for keeping this a hobby, and I'm one of those who want to get stuff for free. I've never donated to a mod author, and I've only ever received one $10 donation myself. Getting cool stuff for free was what attracted me to this community in the first place, as it has hugely enhanced my experience with Bethesda's games.

That's what modding is about for me, not making a living. I'm convinced that modifying games as a hobby, for the purpose of enhancing the gaming experience for yourself and everyone else of like mind, is a much better idea than trying to make it a viable career option. I don't buy the argument that that would attract more professionals, thereby increasing the overall quality of the mods. The opposite will probably happen, with the modding scene experiencing a negative net effect. We'll see how it will go, but in the mean time I'm staying the f. away from the Steam workshop.

[Impulseman45]

In response to post #24630679.

TohouAsura wrote:

Sims 3, yeah, i remember how that all fell apart. just one big screw after another and every time they updated the game all the custom content was totally broken and to be remade. Very bad choices there. I gave my copies to my brother kids, now they wont even play them.

[Asyrin]

In response to post #24630679. #24630994 is also a reply to the same post.

TohouAsura wrote:

Impulseman45 wrote: Sims 3, yeah, i remember how that all fell apart. just one big screw after another and every time they updated the game all the custom content was totally broken and to be remade. Very bad choices there. I gave my copies to my brother kids, now they wont even play them.

Meh, many of us support modders having the option to be paid for their work.

[Davidheat]

In response to post #24617964. #24619084, #24626534 are all replies on the same post.

Laxe wrote:

philips107e wrote: I second that Laxe.
What assurances do we as players have that if we enjoy a mod, find that after careful testing with our other mods that this new mod causes no conflict.
We decide to donate to the creator.
Then next week It's on Steam cash-grab page

Aegrus wrote: Who cares? You still have the mod for free, you have no right to expect another human being to swear you loyalty.

@Aegrus He has the right to care, how would he know that Mod he Donate is still going to be updated? what good is a out of date mod? there is none, so now he has to spend more money to buy the sported mod from steam

[tazdotnet]

In response to post #24629039. #24629269, #24629519 are all replies on the same post.

Warrior84 wrote:

Capirex9 wrote: Valve only pays out in 100$ increments, so before you break 400$ in sales, you dont get s#*!.

Real humble move, Valve.

pokenar wrote: Its amazing how one wrong move changed Valve from the hero of gaming to seeming almost like EA.

valve was ea's pet in my book from the start

[Milleuros]

In response to post #24597829. #24598674, #24599279, #24599624, #24621674, #24622339, #24622439, #24623969, #24626364, #24630889 are all replies on the same post.

anarkywolf wrote:

Shadow_Dragyn wrote: They are not viable. The number of people who actually donate anything to any mod is literally several decimal places beneath a fraction of a percent. Some people are trying to put up crappy or stolen mods for a fee out of greed, but that isn't the norm.
The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy.
People do not donate, and that's why something like this is necessary to help support modding and let it grow.
Finances have been the main thing keeping me from being able to mod as much as I would like, and I'm not the only person who has been facing that kind of issue.
How many times have you seen someone release a quality outfit that was not made of recycled parts? Hardly ever, because once someone has enough skill to actually do something like that, they'd be better off creating it for someone else's game, or even their own game, and getting paid for it.
Even Faalskar was created simply because the author was confident that he could land a job off of it. No one could justify devoting that kind of time and energy without getting anything back from it.
A "hobby" is not something everyone has the luxury of spending much time on, especially in cases like this when you already clearly have the hobby of playing video games and this would directly eat into that.

BattlemasterRiin wrote: @Shadow

No, the greedy ones are those that EXPECT compensation. I for one, will never, EVER buy a mod off Steam. I will however, donate to authors I feel deserve it. Do you think those that refuse to donate are going to instead BUY the mod? hah! If anything, it's only hurting the Modders, those would would normally donate now will not, if the Mod is up for sale on the Workshop.

Shadow_Dragyn wrote: I think you're missing the point. If no one buys a single mod, it's all the same regardless.
I would really like to know who, if anyone, you have ever actually donated to.
This isn't stopping anyone from donating, because they never donated in the first place. Modders are not the monsters here. It's the people who have never given anything back to the community demonizing the people who actually do.
If you truly have donated to anyone, then good on you. But the number of people who really have is astronomically small.
Particularly in contrast to the massive wave of people crying foul about this.

GanonDarkLord wrote: I actually just found out about the donations bit of the nexus today (never took the time to look at the creators profiles in detail) and donated to my top 4 favorites. As the month goes on I'll donate to the rest of creators of the mods I use.

qwert44643qaz wrote: I stand with shadow on this..now even the mod users who agree with modders who would like to make a buck are being attacked.
And you are right about the donations..i have over a 100 mods and have only donated $20 to 1 modder...i plan on donating a bit to my favorite mods next week on payday.

Ghatto wrote: "The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy."

Hahaha. Nobody is being greedy or entitled man. Nobody had to donate because it was never a charity. Sure people could if they wanted to, and I'm fine with that. However nobody has been stealing or taking or screwing over anybody until now. Nobody forced these modders to make anything and nobody could. Nobody needed to make free mods and nobody deserved free mods but look at that... this site was full of them.

I did nothing but sit on my butt and free stuff appeared. No entitlement. No greed.

Joeblivion wrote: @ Shadow_Dragyn

I think the reason people are revolting against 'their' free content being taken away, is because the mod makers gave this free content up willingly to begin with.

They did it with the pretense and knowledge that MANY people will not donate. If the mod maker was really serious about getting donations, they would not go through a service that makes it optional.

I think (and hope) that most mod makers do it for some sense of personal satisfaction. I mean, if they didn't, then why would they do it?

I think that is why the community is all of a sudden confused and frustrated that what was once given up freely, paid for in admiration and respect, is now being paid for with dollar bills.

Your belief that we are all ungrateful, free loaders is pretty condescending. We love mods, we love the makers of the mods, only severe materialists would say that we can only show that appreciation by throwing paper at those mod makers.

Aegrus wrote: Agreed, donations are not viable. I've actually never recieved a single donation, but I find it hilarious how people opposed to this are suddenly acting like donations will save this whole thing and make everything okay again when they've never donated in their lives.

greentea101 wrote: @Shadow_Dragyn
"Finances have been the main thing keeping me from being able to mod as much as I would like"
To me, that translates to "I don't have enough free time to do what I want". In an ideal world, I suppose you could monetize your modding work and live off the money, freeing you from having to spend time working on something less desirable for a living. In reality, I think that's probably only possible if you make something immensely useful and popular (like SkyUI for example), so I wouldn't get too excited about that, considering the tiny 25%.

In any case, in my opinion monetizing mods is a destructive action overall, that isn't worth the few benefits it offers. I'm all for keeping this a hobby, and I'm one of those who want to get stuff for free. I've never donated to a mod author, and I've only ever received one $10 donation myself. Getting cool stuff for free was what attracted me to this community in the first place, as it has hugely enhanced my experience with Bethesda's games.

That's what modding is about for me, not making a living. I'm convinced that modifying games as a hobby, for the purpose of enhancing the gaming experience for yourself and everyone else of like mind, is a much better idea than trying to make it a viable career option. I don't buy the argument that that would attract more professionals, thereby increasing the overall quality of the mods. The opposite will probably happen, with the modding scene experiencing a negative net effect. We'll see how it will go, but in the mean time I'm staying the f. away from the Steam workshop.

@ Shadow :

""The truly greedy ones are people who blindly oppose this, who've never in their life donated a single penny to actually support a modder, all because they want to continue getting stuff for free at the expense of someone else's time and energy.""

You don't want to waste your time and energy to give away stuff ? --> You don't mod. It's as simple as that.


Let me ask one thing.
Battlefield 2, Dota 2, Counter Strike have all been created out of free mods. I think I don't have to explain how great the original mods were and how much content and work people put into it.
In many other games there have been huge mods and/or huge amount of mods. People have worked extremely hard to make mods and give them away for free.
And it worked.
The main argument pro PC gaming is the access to game-enhancing mod. I don't know how many of us bought Skyrim on PC because of its mods.

All of this worked without modder even wanting a compensation.

Why shouldn't it work anymore ?

[OhmesRaht]

I have always loved you Nexus, but certainly even moreso now. Going to make a nice donation tommorow. <3

[Asyrin]

In response to post #24617964. #24619084, #24626534, #24631044 are all replies on the same post.

Laxe wrote:

philips107e wrote: I second that Laxe.
What assurances do we as players have that if we enjoy a mod, find that after careful testing with our other mods that this new mod causes no conflict.
We decide to donate to the creator.
Then next week It's on Steam cash-grab page

Aegrus wrote: Who cares? You still have the mod for free, you have no right to expect another human being to swear you loyalty.

Davidheat wrote: @Aegrus He has the right to care, how would he know that Mod he Donate is still going to be updated? what good is a out of date mod? there is none, so now he has to spend more money to buy the sported mod from steam

Seeing as Skyrim itself is no longer updated, it's pretty hard for any reasonably recent mod to go "out of date".

Now, it can become incompatible with other mods you use, but that's not the modder's fault.